Assuming I want to turn only engines, and my longest would be a F3 A&B. How much real estate do I need?
All my track is packed up in moving boxes at the moment or I would experiment.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Quickie,Atlas #6 Turnouts.Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
BigDaddyAssuming I want to turn only engines, and my longest would be a F3 A&B. How much real estate do I need?
Since you are using 4 axle F units, you can make the wye very compact. You could go as low as 15 inch radius curves and #4 turnouts.
My Stewart F units will run through 16 inch radius Unitrack without problem, but they cannot have American Limited diaphragms installed.
I did a quick rough sketch, and it looks like 48 by 48 would be more than enough. If you use small Peco turnouts and curve the tail you could make it even more tight.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
It depends on your radius and the length of your tail track. If you use a 10" radius and have a 6" tail track, it can be pretty compact. Of course, not much will handle those curves.
If you use a 36" radius and have a 36" tail track, pretty much everything will run on it, but it will take quite a bit more space.
Mark P.
Website: http://www.thecbandqinwyoming.comVideos: https://www.youtube.com/user/mabrunton
Depending on the available sizes in the track you want to use, using wye turnouts can make it fairly compact. If you have the depth for a tail track but not much width, you can make a scissors wye. Some good options are in the old Atlas Custom Line Track Plans book. I don't know if the current versions of those books have the pages in the back with those handy track arrangements, but it's something worth looking for.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Wye not get creative?
Wye_overlap by Edmund, on Flickr
There's also what I've heard refered as a "scissors wye" where the two legs overlap eachother.
Cheers, Ed
The scissor wye in the Atlas book just had to two legs cross one another and then come back together with a single wye turnout. So movement through it was the same as a 'standard' wye.
Ed I can put my crossing and my Wye is the same spot.
Randy I'm having trouble imagining a scissors wye. Can you describe it more fully? Google shows me a lot of eye scissors.
If you really are going to limit yourself...permanently, to just an AB set and a Mikado with tender, I would strongly advise drawing it up in scale after you establish how low in radius you can go.
On the other hand, if you would maybe like to hedge your bets (always a wise choice when it comes to spending time and money on a layout you hope to enjoy for a few years), go a bit bigger. Wider radius, longer tails, maybe you'll get a small articulated or a 4-8-4 through there in time. Just sayin'....
Whatever your decision, do make sure your rolling stock will run through it as you intend them to, and don't nail anthing down until you're sure.
BigDaddy Ed I can put my crossing and my Wye is the same spot. Randy I'm having trouble imagining a scissors wye. Can you describe it more fully? Google shows me a lot of eye scissors.
At lower left in the photo, at the left end of the green masking tape, is what makes the scissors. A crossing, and diverging and converging legs.
BigDaddyI'm having trouble imagining a scissors wye.
There's a sketch here:
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/t/93989.aspx
Regards, Ed
Yes, the picture on the linked thread is exactly the one from the Atlas book.
So, Henry's issue with the wye is the ability to turn only engines. If the use of a wye is to turn whole trains, a lot more real estate will be required.
I have always toyed with the idea of using a wye to turn whole trains, or at least passenger car consists, just outside my large downtown passenger station. But, I have never successfully implemented one since my layout footprints are long and narrow, not suitable for wyes to turn trains.
Another way to turn trains, and for that matter just locomotives, is to install a balloon track. But that too takes up a lot of space.
On the prototype, Santa Fe used a turntable in the coach yard just outside Dearborn Station to turn locos, not only steam engines but also diesels.
Rich
Alton Junction
I have a balloon track and wonder about how much real estate it uses compared to a wye. Often part of a balloon track can use some existing track for one side of it. I can turn big chunks of train on mine.
Here is my balloon track that goes around my RH. Below is a real balloon track (long gone)that goes around the RH in Vancouver. Lots of crossing tracks going over the RH tracks here.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
Hello All,
BigDaddy...I want to turn only engines, and my longest would be a(n) F3 A&B. How much real estate do I need?
I measured an F A-B set and generously it would take approximately 16-inches of tail track to clear the end of the wye turnout.
As far as the area necessary...
On my pike I have a wye that consists of two PECO #2 turnouts, 15-inch radii legs; two sections per leg, and an Atlas Mark IV wye turnout.
The dimensions of the wye are: the #2 turnouts are 33-1/2-inches apart on the main, and 30-inches deep, with only a 9-inch tail.
Accommodating a 16-inch tail would require an area 33-1/2-inches by 38-inches using #2 turnouts, 15-inch radii legs, and a Mark IV wye.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
Brent what is the radius of the outside balloon track?
Scissors wye
I have a wye mainly for turning locomotives, but also use it for turning cars, both freight and passenger.All three turnouts are Shinohara #2.5 wyes, and the radii of the three tracks are all 32". The tail track dead-ends in a corner of the room, with 22" of track beyond the turnout that's located under the bridge....
Wayne
BigDaddyBrent what is the radius of the outside balloon track?
Henry, the radius is 24.5 " at the tightest point, it isn't a consistent turn. My turntable is only a 90' and my 2-10-4 will not go on it but can be turned on the balloon track at dead slow.
The balloon track is 13' long so it is able to accommodate a passenger train of moderate size, though I do not include my three baggage cars when I pull one around.
BATMANHenry, the radius is 24.5 " at the tightest point, it isn't a consistent turn. My turntable is only a 90' and my 2-10-4 will not go on it but can be turned on the balloon track at dead slow.
That is surprising to hear. I would not have believed that a 2-10-4 could negotiate a turn that tight.
I would really like to add a 2-10-2 to my roster, but assumed it would never negotiate my minimum radius curves.
SeeYou190 BATMAN Henry, the radius is 24.5 " at the tightest point, it isn't a consistent turn. My turntable is only a 90' and my 2-10-4 will not go on it but can be turned on the balloon track at dead slow. That is surprising to hear. I would not have believed that a 2-10-4 could negotiate a turn that tight. I would really like to add a 2-10-2 to my roster, but assumed it would never negotiate my minimum radius curves. -Kevin
BATMAN Henry, the radius is 24.5 " at the tightest point, it isn't a consistent turn. My turntable is only a 90' and my 2-10-4 will not go on it but can be turned on the balloon track at dead slow.
Most 2-10-2's had smaller drivers than more modern locos like 2-10-4's. The Bachmann Spectrum 2-10-2 will handle 22" radius.
Keep in mind, it us not the number of coupled axles, it is the number of coupled axles and the driver diameter that controls rigid wheel base and thereby required radius.
Five coupled engines with 57" or 63" drivers are way different from five coupled engines with 69" drivers.
My planned wye is pretty big, built with 36" radius. It will connect to a hidden staging yard. Whole trains will be backed into it at times.
Sheldon
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Most 2-10-2's had smaller drivers than more modern locos like 2-10-4's. The Bachmann Spectrum 2-10-2 will handle 22" radius.
I remember when I was laying it out, I kept running my BLI 2-10-4 through it until it stayed on the track. I only use the track to turn things and the speed only has to be brought down to a crawl as it goes through the 4 to 5 o'clock position. I may modify that before the ballast and ground cover go on but it does its job the way it is. My Hudsons go around easy peasy. My Rapido passenger cars go around when pulled but not pushed.
richhotrain ATLANTIC CENTRAL Most 2-10-2's had smaller drivers than more modern locos like 2-10-4's. The Bachmann Spectrum 2-10-2 will handle 22" radius. At one time, I had a Bachmann Spectrum 2-10-2 and a BLI 2-10-2 on my old layout which, at one time, had 22" and 24" radius curves. The Bachmann could handle the 22" radius curves, but the BLI could not. Rich
At one time, I had a Bachmann Spectrum 2-10-2 and a BLI 2-10-2 on my old layout which, at one time, had 22" and 24" radius curves. The Bachmann could handle the 22" radius curves, but the BLI could not.
The Bachmann USRA 2-10-2 has 57" drivers and a rigid wheel base of 21'.
A Santa Fe 3800 class has 63" drivers and a rigid wheel base of 22'.
A C&O T-1 2-10-4 has 69" drivers and a rigid wheel base of 24.3'.
That may not sound like much difference, but it is when doing the geometry of going around a curve.
Even my Reading T1 4-8-4 with 70" drivers only has a rigid wheelbase of 19.25' compared to a UP FEF with 80" drivers and a 22' wheelbase.
Even with my 36" radius minimum curves, the Bachmann 2-10-2 at 21' is my longest rigid wheelbase. I will not go above that for both operation and appearance.
My Bachmann spectrum 2-10-2 is one of my finest smooth running engines on my fleet.
I don't need to worry about it negotiating tighter radius curves as I don't have any but I did notice the center wheel doesn't have a flange on it for this reason.
Probably not noticeable in N-Scale unless you pointed it out to someone. I don't know if you'd get away with this cosmetically in HO though.
TF
Track fiddler My Bachmann spectrum 2-10-2 is one of my finest smooth running engines on my fleet. I don't need to worry about it negotiating tighter radius curves as I don't have any but I did notice the center wheel doesn't have a flange on it for this reason. Probably not noticeable in N-Scale unless you pointed it out to someone. I don't know if you'd get away with this cosmetically in HO though. TF
The real locomotives had blind center drivers, as did many/most other 5 coupled steam locomotives.