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Super glue for brass?

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Super glue for brass?
Posted by wolfman hal on Tuesday, June 30, 2020 5:01 PM

I am building several signal masts using brass tubing. I have made the signal heads from metal ( some brass) washers with 3mm center holes.

My question is this.

Can I use SUPER GLUE to fasten the heads to the masts or should I SOLDER them on?

Harold

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Posted by woodone on Tuesday, June 30, 2020 5:18 PM
I think I would head for the solder.
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Posted by RR_Mel on Tuesday, June 30, 2020 5:53 PM

Solder is the only way to go with brass, easily changed if not correct.  I also built my signals from K&S brass tubing and #6S brass washers.






Mel



 
My Model Railroad  
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I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
 

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Posted by gmpullman on Tuesday, June 30, 2020 5:58 PM

Hi, Harold

I've made several "hybrid" signal masts and bridges using both brass and plastic.

 IMG_2728 by Edmund, on Flickr

There are sometimes situations where the wiring has to be run before adding more details so this obviously precludes any soldering.

Here, I carefully soldered the LED cathodes before fitting the plastic heads.

 IMG_2674 by Edmund, on Flickr

Or, in this case I added gussets that are plastic to the brass bridge and uprights:

 IMG_2719 by Edmund, on Flickr

If there is a situation where I need to have the best strength of the joint I'll use epoxy, sometimes fast setting or if I need the extra strength I'll use the slow setting stuff.

Superglue will work fine especially if the signal is not in a location where it may be snagged or bumped, epoxy would be next best then, if at all possible, solder the main components.

Some of my signal bridges are 100% plastic and they look just fine.

 IMG_2664 by Edmund, on Flickr

Good Luck, Ed

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Posted by rrinker on Tuesday, June 30, 2020 7:58 PM

 What are those plastic heads in the second picture? They almost look like the plastic part from inside a 3 pin XLR audio connector.

                                            --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

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Posted by hon30critter on Wednesday, July 1, 2020 2:12 AM

wolfman hal
Can I use SUPER GLUE to fasten the heads to the masts or should I SOLDER them on?

Hi Harold,

My first choice would be to solder the heads on. That will allow you to adjust the angle of the head if necessary without risking breaking the joint.

My second choice would be epoxy because it is stronger than CA. I would rough the surface of the post and the mounting point on the head up first, and clean the post and the head with alcohol before applying the epoxy.

I would use CA as a last resort. If the CA is fresh you may get a decent bond, but it will still be more fragile than either of the above options.

Have you decided how to mount your signals? I built some for my old club and I used a pair of six pin IC sockets to mount them so that they can be removed easily when working on the layout. When the scenery has been done the IC sockets will not show:

I'm making more signals for my own layout as I speak. I'm going to use RYG 0605 SMD LEDs instead of the 3mm RG LEDs I used for the club signals, and I'm going to use eight pin sockets instead of the six pin ones. That will allow me to have red/yellow/green aspects should I decide down the road to install a fancy signal system. Initially the signals will just be red/green.

Please show us some pictures of your signals.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by gmpullman on Wednesday, July 1, 2020 2:23 AM

rrinker
What are those plastic heads in the second picture?

Those are the Oregon Rail Supply type G tri-color head from the back. I made a jig out of maple to hold the LEDs in alignment for soldering then slip them into the plastic housing.

 IMG_2670 by Edmund, on Flickr

Regards, Ed

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Posted by hon30critter on Wednesday, July 1, 2020 3:08 AM

gmpullman
I made a jig out of maple to hold the LEDs in alignment for soldering then slip them into the plastic housing.

Smart guy!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by gmpullman on Wednesday, July 1, 2020 11:53 PM

hon30critter
Smart guy!

Thanks (I think Whistling) Dave. 

I've picked up a few things along the way over the years Smile 

With the three holes drilled in the jig it is easy to place the LEDs and hold them in place with a weight while soldering the three anodes together in the center, then I put the teflon wire on the cathode and I'm ready to set the whole assembly into the Oregon plastic head.

I sort of got the idea from using the Oregon PC board that they supply with the PRR PL signals. The board holds each axial LED in just the right position to fit it into the head, 7 LEDs total.

 IMG_2677 by Edmund, on Flickr

   — and from the back:

 IMG_2676 by Edmund, on Flickr

Cheers, Ed

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Posted by snjroy on Thursday, July 2, 2020 8:48 AM

There is impressive work shown on this thread... My soldering skills are pretty low... I've been practicing, with some noted improvements. But since most of the jobs I've had to deal with are not structural, I've used CA successfully. I find CA strong enough for smaller items, with some kind of mechanical hold, like a hole drilled in the brass and a pin on the accessory to hold the piece. I also use epoxy, which provides a better bond. Lately, I have been using Gorilla glue. It has this "feature" of expanding during the setting time. The advantage of this is that the glue can expand in areas that are hard to reach. It can go a bit overboard, but the excess glue is easy to remove. 

Simon

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Posted by wolfman hal on Thursday, July 2, 2020 11:14 AM

Mel

Just a Couple of questions

1. What is the size or the hole on those 6S brass washers? Need 3mm

2. Is it better to solder brass washers to brass tubing or can you use metal washers ? ( Yes I know brass is metal before someone writes in LOL)

3. Do you or anyone reading this thread know if Oregon Rail signals tie there red/green Anodes together. I am using a IRDOT! Boarn and they connect to different terminals on the board.

If they do is there any manufacturer of signals that keeps the red & green ANODES seperate?

Harold

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Posted by RR_Mel on Thursday, July 2, 2020 11:33 AM

wolfman hal

Mel

Just a Couple of questions

1. What is the size or the hole on those 6S brass washers? Need 3mm

2. Is it better to solder brass washers to brass tubing or can you use metal washers ? ( Yes I know brass is metal before someone writes in LOL)

3. Do you or anyone reading this thread know if Oregon Rail signals tie there red/green Anodes together. I am using a IRDOT! Boarn and they connect to different terminals on the board.

If they do is there any manufacturer of signals that keeps the red & green ANODES seperate?

Harold

 

I don’t have a spare #6S brass washer (bought a bag of 12 at Home Depot) but the 5/32” K&S brass tubing fit the hole in the washer perfect and a 3mm LED fits in the tubing perfect too.

It’s much easier for me to solder brass to brass.

I use single three color heads and SMTL-4 three color LEDs .

https://melvineperry.blogspot.com/p/blog-page_49.html



Mel


 
My Model Railroad  
http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
 

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Posted by hon30critter on Friday, July 3, 2020 2:32 AM

wolfman hal
2. Is it better to solder brass washers to brass tubing or can you use metal washers ?

Hi Wolfman hal,

You definitely want to use brass washers and solder. Getting the solder to flow will be so much easier.

I do mine assembly line style. It may take a few attempts to get the washers square on the tubes:

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by RR_Mel on Friday, July 3, 2020 7:51 AM

hon30critter

 

I do mine assembly line style. It may take a few attempts to get the washers square on the tubes:

Dave

 

I really like that Dave!!!!


Mel


 
My Model Railroad  
http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
 

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Posted by hon30critter on Saturday, July 4, 2020 12:02 AM

RR_Mel
hon30critter   I do mine assembly line style. It may take a few attempts to get the washers square on the tubes: Dave   I really like that Dave!!!!

Thanks Mel,

It really makes the job quick and easy. Once the washers are squared up, I cut the brass tube to just a bit longer than the finished shroud, and then I can hold the tube while I shape the shroud with my Dremel. Once the shroud is shaped and filed smooth, I grab the washer with small vice grips, cut the signal head off of the tube, and then start shaping the next one.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by wolfman hal on Saturday, July 4, 2020 6:21 AM

I also like that idea.  What size tubing and washer size are you using?

Harold

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Posted by hon30critter on Saturday, July 4, 2020 11:32 PM

Hi Harold,

I have made 'HO' searchlight signal heads in two different sizes.

For the club's signals which are the ones in the photographs, I used #8 washers, 5/32" tubing and 3mm round RG LEDS. A 3mm LED fits perfectly into the tube, however the outer tube diameter is a bit smaller than the hole in the washer. That makes it hard to get the washers lined up square on the tubes. Also, IIRC, a #8 washer is about 47" in HO. That is a bit bigger than the prototypes, but they look fine.

For the signals that I am building for my own layout, I'm using #6 washers, 5/32" and 1/8" tube, and 0605 RGY SMD LEDs. The RGY LEDs give me the option of showing a yellow indication should I wish to install a more prototypical signal system in the future. For now they will be used only to show turnout positions.

The hole in the #6 washer is slightly smaller than the 5/32" tube so the washer has to be reamed out slightly. The good thing about having to enlarge the hole is, if you are careful, you can get the washer to fit snuggly on the tube. That makes it much easier to get the washers square and centered on the tube. I use a Dremel reamer to open the hole up while holding the washer with small vice grips.

The 5/32" tube only forms the electrical box on the back of the signal head. For the shroud itself, I use 1/8" tube which I solder into place and then cut off and shape. The 1/8" tube isn't inserted all the way though the 5/32" tube. I leave a space at the back for the LED to fit into the 5/32" tube. The #6 washer and 1/8" shroud are slightly smaller than scale but I think they look better. However, it is a lot of extra work for a small difference in size. Also, because of the position of the LED at the back of the head, I have to use 2mm clear styrene rod to form a lens.

There you have it! Another long winded answer by Dave!!

Cheers!!

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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    January 2019
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Posted by wolfman hal on Sunday, July 5, 2020 6:28 AM

Thanks. That will be a great help.  Stay Safe.

Harold

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