Brackets for benchwork

[rrinker]

Some time ago (like over a year) someone sent me a picture of how they used shelf brackets with a 1x4 fastened to it to support their upper level benchwork. Unfortunately I have misplaced this picture and the email explanation. I've checked throught he files and photos of the various Yahoo groups I'm on, but haven't had any luck co far. It was a super-simple way, adn i KNOW those shelf brackets are strong, I have a bunch of them in my garage and they can withstand a HUGE load without sagging. Plus it minimizes the depth of the upper level benchwork, which in turn maximizes the viewable space above the lower level. If that person is on this board, or anyone has something similar, I'd like to see it.

Thanks,
Randy

[CBQ_Guy]

Hi Randy,

Roger Kujawa had an article in MR mag a couple years back on using the shelf brackets to support his layout. He is on at least a couple of the Yahoo train related groups, I know of. Probably the easiest way to contact him would be from his layout's web page which is at <http://www.agw-railway.com/>

There is an email link to write him at the bottom of the above page.

Good luck!

[rrinker]

I have that issue, that's not the one I was thinking of. It's certainly one way of doing this, as is Bill Darnaby's bracket made from 2 pieces of 2x2, although that one requires open access to the stud, or an additional 'stud' fasted to the wall studs. Which opens another question, just how sturdy is a stud wall WITHOUT a skin of drywall on it? Non-load bearing wall, but properly constructed with a footer and header.

--Randy

[orsonroy]

Depends on how tight the studwall is, relative to the floor and ceiling joists. If there's a lot of slop and the walls are held in place with just screws and prayers, it won't be sturdy at all. If the studs are tight to the upper and lower surfaces, it'll be strong enough for any modeling purposes.

My layout false studwalls are 2x2s, and the walls were built (purposely) so tight that I needed to sledgehammer them into place. They're only tied into every other ceiling joist with one drywall screw. One of my buddies is a 300+ pounder, and he's accidentally bounced off the walls a couple of times. They didn't budge.

[cuyama]

This may not be exactly what you are looking for, but I suggested this to one of my clients for some relatively narrow shelves and it is working out quite well. The shelf brackets are fairly beefy and the 1X4 or plywood ripped to width is screwed in below the bracket to help make the whole thing effectively a little thinner. Lighting is going between these "joists" and a fascia goes on the front.



Regards,

Byron
Model RR Blog

[orsonroy]

Interesting use of the strap brackets Byron. I rules them out on my shelf layout since they bent too easily, bt it looks like you've solved that issue by putting the wood where it is. It's definitely an option for modelers who like hardshell scenery, or who have lots of track elevation changes on a shorter length of mainline. But I'm a diehard foam layout guy, and so will stick with my U channel shelf brackets, 1/4" plywood and 2" foam. It's cheaper and faster to build than traditional benchwork modified for shelf work!

[rrinker]

That's SORT of it, but instead of the strap brackets it used those heavy duty shelf brackets which DON'T bend, and the 1x4 piece was on top of the bracket, not underneath it, and laying on its side. Thus providing plenty of surface to fasten the foam on.
At this point I will probably stud out all the bare walls, I can then use either Bill Darnaby's method of making brackets from two pieces of wood, or use the shelf brackets. The wood ones could be mass produced fairly quickly if I first cut a stop to use with the miter saw, but shelf brackets would be easier to fasten to the studs, and likely stronger.

--Randy

[jrbarney]

Randy,
You might also want to look at the 35th and Bell Corporation product advertised in Model Railroad Planning 2004:
http://www.35bell.com/WallBrackets.html
Looks a bit pricey to me, but it may suit someone's purpose. To paraphrase an old saying, "It aint heck for purty, but it's darn for stout."
Bob
NMRA Life 0543

[orsonroy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jrbarney

Randy,
You might also want to look at the 35th and Bell Corporation product advertised in Model Railroad Planning 2004:
http://www.35bell.com/WallBrackets.html
Looks a bit pricey to me, but it may suit someone's purpose. To paraphrase an old saying, "It aint heck for purty, but it's darn for stout."
Bob
NMRA Life 0543

Them brackets are "too much gun"!

My entire 3-level layout is supported by U-channel L-brackets, and they work great. Each is rated at 300 pounds, so attached to each stud (16" OC) they'll more than support any N, HO, S, and virtually any O scale layouts. They cost a whopping 89 cents apiece at Home Depot (for the larger 10"x12" ones), making them cheaper than using Bill Darnaby's homemade brackets (which require X amount of wood, Y amount of corner braces, and Z amount of screws), and they ARE stronger, and MUCH faster to install than homemade brackets. Once I had my levels chalklined on the walls, it took me about 2 hours to mount all 200 brackets on my layout!

There's only two downsides to using my brackets. You can't customize their length, so I've got a few areas that stick out from the end of the brackets by as much as a foot. There is some sagging on those unsupported areas, but it's no big deal since I only have scenery in those areas. If I needed support, I'd use 1x3's screwed to the brackets before I laid plywood and foam. The other issue is that my brackets sit in front of the backdrop. I've painted over them and have masked as many as possible with buildings and trees. For my needs, they work great and are virtually unnoticeable except in photos. It might bother a few people, however, and to them I recommend Bill's brackets since they won't "mar" the backdrop.

[GerFust]

Here is another, cheaper (for those of us that are cost-conscious) option for brackets.

Steel studs and tracks (equivalent to a wood 2x2), cost $2-3 for 10' length and can be easily and quickly formed into any size triangular bracket you want. I compared costs of jfbarney's option, heavy-duty standard-and-bracket shelving supports, and other brackets, and this is the cheapest alternative. There is also the benefit that the layout shelf doesn't need to extend up to a foot beyond the end, just build a larger bracket.

To add support between the brackets, I will run another metal channel (bottom/top plate for steel stud) along the length of the shelf, notched at the brackets. My layout base is 1.5" pink foam, 24" wide.

Steel studs can be screwed to anything that holds a screw, won't warp (though can bend if too much weight), and come in varying gauges of steel and profiles.

We'll see how it works out, but I'm pretty optimistic that this will be both a strong and inexpensive (and flexible, and easy) method for brackets.

-Jer

[Bob Hayes]

Randy,
Check out Jan. 1977 MR, pg. 53: Bookshelf railroads: 1 By Robert J. Lutz. Sounds like what you are talking about.
Bob Hayes

[rfross]

I'm in the process of installing my benchwork from Sievers on top of heavy duty steel shelf brackets from Home Depot and/or Lowes. The ones I went with are manufactured by John Sterling, come in white or black and in 12", 16" and 20" sizes. I added a 1 x 3 to the top that the benchwork rests on. A pair reportedly will support 1,000 lbs! (Go to the HD or Lowes web site and do a search on 'shelf brackets" and they will pop up). $5.97/ea for the 16's.

I used 16's but will be purchasing a 20 to replace one 16 where I've got a 24" depth of benchwork. I lag bolted them through the drywall and into the studs in a spare bedroom I'm using.

I don't have an easy way of posting my photos on the web but if you want to see some pictures e:mail and I'll get them to you - I'm documenting every step of the installation.

[rrinker]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Bob Hayes

Randy,
Check out Jan. 1977 MR, pg. 53: Bookshelf railroads: 1 By Robert J. Lutz. Sounds like what you are talking about.
Bob Hayes

Believe it or not, I have that one. And part 2 of the article. I built my last railroad like that - had no room in the apartment except for a room they called a walk-in closet except it was 8x8 and had no place to hang clothes. So I Installed some metal channel and brackets and built a layout around 2 of the walls, and a second shelf above that to hold all my MR's. I was going to expand around to a third wall before I ended up moving.
The channel brackets arewhat Roger Kujawa used in his article. They work, but those plain grey brackets are even cheaper, and MORE than strong enough, as the junk piled high on shelves supported by them in my garage attests to.

--Randy

[rrinker]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rfross

I'm in the process of installing my benchwork from Sievers on top of heavy duty steel shelf brackets from Home Depot and/or Lowes. The ones I went with are manufactured by John Sterling, come in white or black and in 12", 16" and 20" sizes. I added a 1 x 3 to the top that the benchwork rests on. A pair reportedly will support 1,000 lbs! (Go to the HD or Lowes web site and do a search on 'shelf brackets" and they will pop up). $5.97/ea for the 16's.

I used 16's but will be purchasing a 20 to replace one 16 where I've got a 24" depth of benchwork. I lag bolted them through the drywall and into the studs in a spare bedroom I'm using.

I don't have an easy way of posting my photos on the web but if you want to see some pictures e:mail and I'll get them to you - I'm documenting every step of the installation.

Yeah that's sort of my trade-off. I might do that for the lower level. If I keep on with building a frame under the foam liek the free-standing sections I alreayd built, then I only need a bracket every 3rd or 4th stud - the free-standing sections at 8' long and have legs 16" in from the ends, and that's it (well, diagonal braces as well) and there is absolutely no sag. SO a strong bracket every 4th stud will be plenty of support. But for the upper level, if I build the frame under the foam, I decrease my seperation by the thickness of the frame - I used 1x4's for the free standing sections but I think 1x3's would be plenty strong. On the other hand, if I only have to use supports ever 5 feet or so, I don't have to build a full fledged stud wall either, I can anchor 2x4's into the concrete and bolt the brackets to those. Hmm.....

--Randy

[Anonymous]

Randy,
If you haven't found what you are looking for, try this site-www.trainweb.org/cior/
Look at his pictures and in one of the very last ones there is a great shot of how he attached his upper deck with brackets. This site is for the Central Indiania & Ohio model rr and the webmasters choice I believe on the NMRA site this month. If my web address is not right go to the NMRA site and you can access it from there. Matt and I have traded several emails regarding his constructions techniques and he is very helpful. Hope this isn't too late.
Clay Smith

[Anonymous]

Here's a link I stumbled upon in the On30 Conspiracy Yahoo group. It shows construction photos of one guy's implementation of the shelf bracket concept.

http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8009