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How to Fix a Bad Realistic Water Pour

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  • Member since
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How to Fix a Bad Realistic Water Pour
Posted by mrnimble on Wednesday, February 12, 2020 9:42 PM

I am trying to figure out how to repair a 8 - 10 year old bad water pour using WS Realistic Water.  This is bad folks - bubbles bulging out through the surface, some as big as small grapes.  What caused it has been explained to me as gassing from an improperly prepared subsurfce over foam insulation board.  It has always looked bad but I've never come up with a reasonable way to fix it but would like to take the time to try and do so now. 

Cutting out the area (small lake about 20" diameter with a 2 - 3" wide stream flowing away toward the backdrop) is out of the question due to structural / benchwork complications. Painting over it and re-pouring seems out due to the bulges in the surface.  Sanding the whole thing flat to start over will likely create a HUGE mess.  And lastly, I don't know if the bubbles were cut away somehow if they could be filled and then a new 1/8" or so pour over the area would fix it.  And then, of course, is the issue of forming and painting new banks and depth colorations.  Anyone having made such a severe repair or suggestions appreciated.  Thanks, Geoff

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Posted by MisterBeasley on Wednesday, February 12, 2020 10:39 PM

Did you do several thin pours or a single thick pour?

I'm an Envirotex user.  For this product, gas is generated by pouring the resin too thick so gas can't escape before the resin hardens.

You probably have to bite the bullet and remove the problem area.  Yeah, it's a mess and a lot of effort, and it will disturb everything around it, but you really can't fix a bad pour any other way.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

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Posted by doctorwayne on Wednesday, February 12, 2020 11:01 PM

mrnimble
...Painting over it and re-pouring seems out due to the bulges in the surface....



I'm not at all familiar with that product, but could you possibly get rid of the major bulges?  Perhaps using a solid scraper (like a putty knife, but with a much heavier blade) or perhaps a hammer and chisel.
You could then paint over the remaining area and try a new pour over it.

It sounds to me like you've made a single pour that's too deep, when the usual process is to pre-paint the area to be "flooded", creating an illusion of depth with a relatively thin pour or successive thin pours.

You might get more responses and perhaps better solutions if you could post a photo of the area.  Most structural problems with benchwork can be resolved.

If the pour was done that long ago, and you've not yet corrected it and it's still buggin' you, time to take action. 

There are lots of knowledgeable modellers here willing to offer suggestions, especially if you can give us a little more with which to work.

Wayne

 

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Posted by mbinsewi on Thursday, February 13, 2020 8:19 AM

A picture would really help with ideas for redoing this area. 

My first thought is to do something like Wayne reccomends, or maybe after making the area flat again, skim coat it with dry wall mud, to get a flat smooth surface, and then start over.

You might have to just bit the bullet, and remove it, clean up the mess, and start over.  Don't think that it's out of question, or not doable, or out of the question.  If you want it fixed, you have to do what it takes.

Mike.

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, February 13, 2020 8:28 AM

mbinsewi

You might have to just bit the bullet, and remove it, clean up the mess, and start over.  Don't think that it's out of question, or not doable, or out of the question.  If you want it fixed, you have to do what it takes.

Mike. 

I am going to side with Mike on this one. Having been a somewhat avid user of WS Realistic Water on my old layout, it is next to impossible to remove. In fact, I had placed a tugboat on top of the cured water surface and yet it lightly sank into the cured water. It about took a pickaxe to remove the tugboat.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by NVSRR on Thursday, February 13, 2020 8:29 AM

My first question is,  did you stop scenery work in that area, or was it finished?   
two. What structural issue is making complete removal not doable?

three. Can you get pictures up?  That would greatly help 

is the realisttic water the hot melt version or 2 part version epoxy version?

If it is the hot melt version, a hairdryer ( or paint stripper gun,  basically an over powered hairdryer) and needle will work it out

shane

A pessimist sees a dark tunnel

An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel

A realist sees a frieght train

An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space

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Posted by kasskaboose on Thursday, February 13, 2020 9:17 AM

Great questions posted.  Another to answer is whether this was the OP's first time using the product.  A great lesson learned is not using something new on a visible part of the layout.  Another is asking how others use(d) the product and their results. 

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Posted by RR_Mel on Thursday, February 13, 2020 9:19 AM

As mentioned above, pictures would help.
 
I doubt if it was your fault, WS Realistic Water doesn’t work for me either.  After a couple of bad experiences using it I went with Magic Water, it works great.  Magic Water is a clear two mix Epoxy.  I found out that Parks Super Glaze works as good if not better than any hobby product for more than half the cost and it’s available at Big Box stores.
 
If you can remove the old bubbles and have enough depth to use it for the bottom of your lake I would redo the bottom and do a new pour on top of the old surface. I use WS flocking for the bottom of my ponds, they have several different colors of flocking that can be used to create depth.
 
 
This pond is about 10” and I made three pours for about 3/16”, 24 hours apart.  My only error was I didn’t put any fish in the water.  This is Parks Super Glaze.
 
 
First pour.
 
 
Second Pour.
 
 
Final pour.
 
 
Good Luck!!!
 
 
 
Mel
 
 
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
 
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Posted by mrnimble on Thursday, February 13, 2020 10:16 AM

Great input folks.  Thanks.  I'll try to address all issues.

Yes, my first time using the WS product.  Given the age I have a sense it was their product before Realistic Water.  It was one part and I did in fact do several pours of 1/8" or less per instructions as well as a week or so apart as I was only working on the layout on weekends.  As I can recall temperature and humidity was not a concern.  All went well and actually looked good for a number of months.  THEN the bubbles began to appear and over time came to the uglyness shown below.  Again - my bad was not having a purely acrylic paint sealer over the foam board.  And yes, as can be seen, this is in a completely finished area.  The structural issues come from cutting out the whole area of foam from the L-girder benchwork and lack of access from below because there is a second level staging yard under it now and the wiring can not be reliably located as well.

I'm thinking that the best hints of a solution from your reply posts might be to cut away the bubbles somehow (sanding, chisel, Dremel w/cut off, etc.) and float a coat of plaster or dry wall mud over the whole area and then start from scratch with a proper sealant, painting, pouring, etc.

 

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Posted by NVSRR on Thursday, February 13, 2020 10:32 AM

Ok. Seeing the dilema with most options.  I would try to find a way to level the big bumps. Take the top off of the bubbles at the top Then pour thin layers.   If the bumps arent too high,   Use wave making materials and hide them.  Waves hide a bunch of oopsies.   Drill into the deeper down bubbles and use a syringe to inject new water to fill them.   The marks almost completely dissappear.   Again waves hide a lot of oopsies

 

 

best place to start before any other more drastic work.

 

 

Did you try to add pics that didnt show?  Almost sounds line you had

A pessimist sees a dark tunnel

An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel

A realist sees a frieght train

An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space

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Posted by mrnimble on Thursday, February 13, 2020 10:34 AM

I did try to add pics but didn't seem to include them in the updated post.

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Posted by BigDaddy on Thursday, February 13, 2020 10:37 AM

If there is no bridge involved, mix up a batch of scultptamold and make a hill out of it.

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

By the Chesapeake Bay

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, February 13, 2020 11:21 AM

Here is a photo of the Realistic Water pour on my old layout.

DSC02278.jpg

Here was my first attempt to free the tugboat which had partially sunk into the cured Realistic Water.

P1010666.jpg

That didn't work. so I tried even harder to free the tug boat. The sea was angry that day, my friend.

P1010669.jpg

Finally got it out of its watery grave.

P1010670.jpg

Here is the victim, waiting to be cleaned up and ready for another day at sea - - sailing in something other than WS Realistic Water.

P1010671.jpg

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by mbinsewi on Thursday, February 13, 2020 12:00 PM

I see some of your pictures, enough to see what happend.

As mentioned before, shave off the bubbles.  Give the area a thin coat of dry wall mud, or a thin set patching plaster to fill everything in to a flat surface.

After it's completly dry, repaint the area to give the appearance of depth, as you did the first time, and repour.

I've never used the WS stuff, I've always used Envirotex casting resin.

Go to the General discussion forum, scroll down to the thread  "Making realistic water".  Dr. Wayne has some pictures in there, along with other contributors that show pictures, and methods.

Mike.

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Posted by mrnimble on Thursday, February 13, 2020 12:23 PM

mbinsewi
I've never used the WS stuff, I've always used Envirotex casting resin.

Right on, Mike. Whatever route to a fix I take already includes plan to use Envirotex.  Nearby MRRs use it exclusively and no one seems to have had any problems.  MRR December 2019 cover feature article layout is nearby and his water under the trestle bridge looks like a $1M bucks up close and in person. Thanks.

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Posted by RedImperator on Thursday, February 13, 2020 12:49 PM

You could always claim an old slaughterhouse dumped their offal in the pond and it's still outgassing today

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bubbly_Creek

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Posted by Pruitt on Thursday, February 13, 2020 1:30 PM

RedImperator
You could always claim an old slaughterhouse dumped their offal in the pond and it's still outgassing today

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bubbly_Creek

Or you could put a soap delivery truck half submerged into the stream a bit upstream of the bubbles... 

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Posted by selector on Thursday, February 13, 2020 3:41 PM

Cover it with a thin putty or plaster, whatever you have on hand.  Paint it.  Then do two thin pours, no more than 1/8" each using a two-part finish epoxy.  Even one would be fine.  Final layer, slather the top level layer with a veneer of gel gloss medium and stipple the layer with the side of the applicator.  Walk away for a full day and you should be good to go.

 

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Posted by IAFlyer on Friday, February 21, 2020 1:34 PM
Maybe you could paint the bubbles and call them rocks? There are a lot of them though. If I had done that to my layout, I would just cover up the pond with sculptamold and start again. Sounds like it's not possible to cut the foam area out and redo it. That would be the easiest, as you could cut a replacement foam board and slide it right in.

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