I've been putting this off too long. This is the original Tupper Lake/Faust Junction peninsula track plan I was using as inspiration.
That plan had a passenger train station in the peninsula area. My new plan is going to be much more 'industrialized' , and that station location is now becoming a container terminal zone.
By happenstance I ran across a carfloat model at our local flea market. What if I were to put that out on the end of my peninsula across from my other waterfront scene? ...another tug boat barge item....a port facility .
So this discussion of a track plan for the peninsula is going to consider these 2 elements as sub-subjects,...container terminal & port facility.
What I am going to need help with is how to make these two sub-scenes operational...how to move/switch cars around in them?
Brian
My Layout Plan
Interesting new Plan Consideration
Double Slip at Entrance
As I mentioned in the opening here is where I had posted that original peninsula plan over my plans.
My initial thoughts were that I would be 'feeding' this central peninsula area with 2 tracks coming in from 2 mainlines,...one from the helix area, and one from a track along the right hand side of the layout. My next thought was it would be nice to have the option that either of these two 'entering tracks' could select either of at least 2 tracks into the peninsula area itself.... THUS the double slip turnout up at the junction of these 2 entrance tracks.
Container Terminal Zone
We will look at this area first, since that is the order I took it in, and it is likely more 'developed' in my mind at this time.Since my container yard is relatively short (only partial length of the peninsula) I figured I needed at minimum 2 tracks of length running under the loading/unloading cranes to get a decent amount of container action in the scene. Yes, I realize that this is not prototypical, but I was heavily influenced by these 2 images,..
I had used this same 2 track configuration on my upper west coast container yard, but with the 2 tracks spaced apart to the outer edges of the space under the cranes. The truck/trailers up there can run down the central strip of concrete between the 2 outer tracks to gather, or drop off their containers, to be handled by the train loading/unloading cranes.
I was unsure of exactly how I wanted to space those 2 tracks down in this lower deck yard? Then I got to thinking, what if I went ahead and installed 3 tracks, with the option to chose later which combination of 2 tracks I might make use of in the future.?? Wait a minute, aren't these tracks under the cranes paved flush with concrete so the tires of the cranes can roll over them? ...Of course, so why not lay down that 3rd container track under the cranes, such that the option exist to use any 2 of the 3 tracks. This might exist in real life as well? I'm pretty sure I want to go forward with this option of 3 container tracks that are buried flush with the concrete paving that the cranes and trucks can drive all around on.
Upper container yard with 2 tracks,...
Lower container yard with 3 tracks
NOTE: Those 3 tracks and their cranes are set inboard of the edge of the peninsula by another full track along that edge; 1) It keeps those train loading cranes away from the aisle traffic, and 2) it provides an escape / runaround track for locos that get stuck out at the end of the peninsula, once having pulled a train into this container area.
So next I had to provide turnouts to those 3 'container tracks'. I did this utilizing 2 dble-curved Peocs coupled to the dble-slip switch., then another dbl-curve and 2 long Y's. I played with various combinations of turnouts to arrive at this solution. One particular aspect that made it more difficult to solve, was that I also wanted to be able to route a locomotive using that 'escape' track to jump back over to the broader radius track of those 2 tracks that are curving off to the left. Most of the steam engines (particularly the long ones) need to use that outer 24”-25” radius track to get to their turntable/roundhouse stowage. Most of the diesels can use that inner 22” radius curve to get back over to the freight yard.
If the primary mainline loco arrives pulling its load into the left most container track, then it could uncouple and back out onto that 24-25” radius escape track WITHOUT having to proceed to the end of the peninsula,...so there may be good reason to bring long steam engines in on that container track, the let a switcher type loco take over from there.
Locomotive Escape Routes (from the container loading/unloading)
First off, here is an overview of the container yard trackage that I am currently considering very seriously.
Here is the primary problem that keep running thru my mind as I was developing this container zone. The 'big guys' would be bringing trains into this container area, and possible be selecting one of the 3 tracks available under the cranes. Once they have done their mainline delivery service, how do I get them disconnected, and then back to their maintenance or storage areas, and then let the switchers go to work. And can this same capability exist 1) on all 3 of those tracks, and 2) for very long engines??
I decided to select a very long steam engine I had, to determine the possibilities. If I can make it work for this loco, I shouldn't complain about any others. The loco is a Santa Fe 4-8-4 Northern with a very long tender.
At first I thought I was going to be able to utilize the short parallel track plan similar to that of the original TPFJ along with some simple crossings. But I shortly discovered that I would need a (much) longer peninsula to both accommodate the required 'tailing track' (don't know the proper name for this), AND the turnouts to get the loco onto that runaround (escape) track along the edge. Without a much longer peninsula I would be left with a container yard of only 1 or 2 car lengths,...maybe?
This resulted in my introduction of another double-slip crossing. Here you can see how that allows for that very long SF loco to sit on either of those 'tailing tracks' and still back down to the escape track on the far left. And with the addition of 2 other crossover turnouts the 3rd track can delivery a long steam (or consisted diesels) engine to one of those 'tailing tracks'.
A happy result also, is that these 'tailing tracks' are long enough to accept a pair (rather than just one) of the unloaded container cars to be towed back to the freight yard, or brought in from the freight yard.
The tailing end of the escape track can be used to temporarily hold two container cars, or might be used to hold a switcher engine that would work the container yard.
I have a Walthers carfloat and apron. The floats are hard to find, but if you want to continue with this you might want to pick up an apron while you still can.
The float holds about 18 40-foot cars. It's a nice scenic item by itself, but if you want to operate it, unloading and loading cars, you will need space for that number of cars to take off when the float arrives, and the same number to load before it departs. You will want these close to the carfloat. I shoehorned in my carfloat terminal and did not allow enough space for this, but will in the next incarnation.
To be prototypical, the engine should not go onto the carfloat or even the apron. I use a string of Tichy flatcars as idlers, but that means even more trackage required. Realistically, you should pull off only half a string at a time to maintain balance on the floating component. Of course, you probably won't actually have a floating barge, but it's something to consider.
The rail supplied with the carfloat kit is plastic. I did replace mine with Code 83 metal rail to reduce rolling friction so I could use small engines to pull the strings of cars.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Container Cars on those Tailing Tracks
3 of those 'tailing tracks' can accommodate 2 container cars
@MisterBeasley
I'll be back to answer your posting soon,...when I jump over to discussing that 'other side' of the peninsula.
Just for the fun of it I thought I might play with a couple of structures on that peninsula.
That dbl-slip switch and two dbl-curves at the entrance certain deserve a switching tower. I have a better one than the one shown, but it wasn't accessible at this time.
It might also be appropriate that those track crews have a bit of an off-duty resting spot.
Multi-unit Container Cars
After mocking up this container area, I suddenly became concerned if I would be able to fit a '5-unit set' of container cars into my terminal?
I went on the forums and discovered that: 1) a 5-unit set of 40 foot cars is 36.5" overall length 2) a 5-unit set of 48 foot cars is about 41" long
The shortest length terminal track I have is that one with the 2 container cars sitting on it,...and the distance between those 2 turnouts on either end is about 42",...WOW., looks like I can fit both of those 2 size sets on that track.
Interestingly that is the only container track of the 3 that I could spot such a 5-unit set on, while being able to get it off and back over to the freight yard after unloading.
Brian, nice work!
I have a very small, short container yard. Yours will look great with the tracks, cranes, and room for five cars on each track.
Keep the photos coming. It's great to see your plans.
York1 John
I asked my doctor if I gave up delicious food and all alcohol, would I live longer? He said, "No, but it will seem longer."
I finally got to my computer with the pictures on it. Here's a view looking in from the carfloat.
Here is a newer view, giving some idea of how the turnouts fit in. I powered these with Tortoise machines. They operate well, but were a very non-standard installation with the apron bridge.
I built this with a removeable carfloat that could be used as a casette. The apron end is finished so that it still is a decent model without the carfloat itself. The float itself and the apron have Envirotex "water" for more realism.
Here are a couple of the idler flats, being pushed by the tank engine.
Sorry that these are all end-on shots from the carfloat itself. I shoehorned this whole area in, and there is no good vantage point for photography other than this one. That's also a suggestion. You really need good access to the apron and carfloat. You are pushing and pulling strings of cars, and may get the occasional derailment, and just installing all this equipment takes some working space.
Brian,
You really need to eliminate one track under the Mi-Jack. Why? Where do you drop the containers or load the containers to the well car if you don't have a road for the containers to be loaded or taken off on to a chassis? I know you like my design, so take out one track, have two, add the chassis and the yard tractors to make a nice scene.
Neal
If you drop the track closest to the center under the crane, that uses 4 less turnouts, and both tails down at the end are full length without a turnout in the middle of the one.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I agree with Randy. Having one less track certainly helps in many ways.
And if I follow Brian correctly, the tracks on the right side are part of a larger container scene (I'm confused because I thought they were once a logging scene?).
After the whole peninsula container scene is built and scenicked, you won't miss the loss of one track, IMO.
- Douglas
Change to 2 Track Container Yard
A good number of participates on this forum and another have encouraged me to reduce the tracks in container terminal to 2 rather than the 3 I was contemplating. So here is my quick mock-up.
I had to choose those 2 tracks that were the furthermost to the left, due to the manner in which they intersected with that diagonal track at the end of the peninsula. This would leave me with longest tail track to utilize in routing the loco(s) back onto that runaround track on the far left.
Even then I can only accommodate the longest steam engines, or double headed diesels, on the tail track if they are coming ONLY from the far left container track. Here are a few photos that show those length accommodations,..
You can see here that the longer length steam engines or dbl-diesels could not successfully use the right most container track to runaround,...they would be confined to using just that one track on the left.
There is a very nice consequence of going to this 2 track arrangement,...it greatly simplifies the number of switches, and eliminates the dbl-slip.
(PS: so please don't accuse me of never listening to advice from the peanut gallery....ha...ha)
Does using a standard turnout instead of the slip alter it that much? With the original arrangment of 3 tracks, the turnout between the tail track and the center intermodal track had its points above that little tail on the far left, and it looked like if you put the bumper at the very edge of the shelf, that steam loco would JUST squaeak in there. Now with the slip removed and a single turnout there, plus a second single turnout, the points of the second turnout end up well below the little tail, and no room for the steam loco (never mind that that loco would be an anachronism pulling modern contain cars).
Of course, operation in the intermodal yard could be that an older loco, like a 38-2 or 40-2, handles moving the cars around, and the double headed road locos don;t actually run all the way down there to even need to run around.
You are correct there Randy, this change to 2 container tracks certainly limited the use of those tail tracks. When I set back and think about it my first plan with the slip-switch was brought about when I discovered this situation. But oh well, I think the 2 track plan has gained the upper hand. I will then have a dedicated lane for the truck/trailers, and perhaps a little less cluttered appearance. I will have only one long tail track, but at least I will have one.
Maybe in the end I will reconsider and go back to 3 tracks,...at least I will have that option due to the manner I have changed from 3 to 2 tracks.
railandsail...... Maybe in the end I will reconsider and go back to 3 tracks,...at least I will have that option due to the manner I have changed from 3 to 2 tracks.
What if you leave it the way you have it there, except take out the 3rd track under the crane, and thus the turnout right above the green ruler? That would give you two long tails, 2 tracks under the crane, and the open space for the road for the chassis to be lined up for loading/unloading.
I guess I am at a loss as how to swapping out the slip for a single right-hand turnout makes the one remaining tail end up so much shorter. I would think the second turnout up, connecting the slip to the second track, would remain int he same place if the slip was replaced with a plain right hand turnout.
Take it from me who learned the lesson of tyrying to max out the amount of track in an area. Just leave the two tracks under the Mi-Jack, no other switches. Leave space for a road to create the RIGHT scene.
PS. I ripped up that section you saw in my photos twice as I thought I could manage a third track and still have the space for tractors, chassis and containers.
rrinker ...... I guess I am at a loss as how to swapping out the slip for a single right-hand turnout makes the one remaining tail end up so much shorter. I would think the second turnout up, connecting the slip to the second track, would remain int he same place if the slip was replaced with a plain right hand turnout. --Randy
......
Thats a good question Randy, I can't see it either. I guess I need to go back and take a new look at the 2 options.
Definitely I will leave out the 3rd track under the cranes.
New 'Tail Tracks' Configuration
I was looking at some new possibilities for my carfloat location. While doing this I took a new look at those tracks and switches I have been considering for the trailing ends of my container yard. I introduced a 3-way turnout to gather the 3 track ends together. The 2 container tracks now deposit the long locos and containers onto 1 long 'tail track' rather than 2.
I still retain that shorter tail track off the end of the run-around track to act as a layover for the switchers ready to work the container cars.(PS: I don't intend to use that little steamer for this modern container operation,...just didn't have a small diesel handy to place there)
x posted: Put a crossover at the base of the peninsula from the right most container track over to the lead to the float dock, use the float dock lead as the tail track. Inbound train noses into the right most container track, cuts off power, goes into the float lead
x posted: Put a crossover at the base of the peninsula from the right most container track over to the lead to the float dock, use the float dock lead as the tail track.
Inbound train noses into the right most container track, cuts off power, goes into the float lead
The reason I didn't send any of the mainline locos (steam or diesel) over to that side of the peninsula is that I didn't have any short, good way to get them back to the turntable/roundhouse, or freight yard, without making them wait for operations, or sending them all way back around the layout. I didn't think that would be realistic at all.
I figured that the long tail track could collect a long steamer, or even perhaps a doubled headed diesel set and send them back 'home' while all the unloading of containers, or loading of the carfloat proceeded without their interference?
y posted: Also, looking at your location, I think it would be a perfect excuse to leave the nice locos sitting there and looking good at the best spot on your layout (rather than having an empty piece of track there). You had such a nice shot of a large, beautiful steamers sitting right there in the perfect spot. Go back one page. Which looks much better than an empty piece of track. Or an empty well car. Which is why the purpose of the escape track is escaping me...
y posted: Also, looking at your location, I think it would be a perfect excuse to leave the nice locos sitting there and looking good at the best spot on your layout (rather than having an empty piece of track there).
You had such a nice shot of a large, beautiful steamers sitting right there in the perfect spot. Go back one page. Which looks much better than an empty piece of track. Or an empty well car. Which is why the purpose of the escape track is escaping me...
I think I explained my thinking of the tail track above,..for the locos. The reason I show a couple of well cars just sitting there is to emphasize that this tail track can also be used to move empty container cars out of the front of the line and back over to the yard area,...so the switcher can push more cars in for unloading. My use of 2 cars was to say I can possible move 2 cars at a time, rather then just one.
As to 'displaying' the locos, i have a nice big turntable right next the deck's edge at the very end of the aisle,...with lots of 'outdoor' tracks for those big steamers. Should be a good show, rather than hiding them down in staging. (I'm also planning on having primarily diesels climb the helix up from staging, that may, or may not, give their trains up to steamers.
That Santa Fe engine facility up on the top deck will have considerable 'outdoor stowage' for some pretty snappy looking diesel engines,...and its close to the edge for viewing as well.
Potential Operations on the Peninsula
Here is how I would imagine some of the operations would happen on that peninsula.
The mainline train would enter on either of those 2 tracks that meet at the double slip. The mainline loco might uncouple right there, and proceed to get back over to the roundhouse area or the freight yard by way of that escape route provided by the tail track at the end of the container yard and the runaround track.
Or it might go ahead and pull the train thru the container yard, but uncouple and leave non-container car(s) there at the double crossover. It still can use the tail track to escape and go home.
The switcher the comes in to pull groups of container cars into the 2 tracks for unloading. As they are unloaded, that switcher (or a second one) can pull singles or pairs of those unloaded container cars over to a waiting area (the freight yard perhaps). Then come back to repeat the operation over and over, ...pulling new container cars into unloading, then over to the freight yard waiting area.
Another switcher working the right side of the peninsula would grab off non-container cars up at the double slip and move them onto one of 3 waiting tracks for selection to be delivered to the 1) big dockside crane out at the end of the peninsula, 2) the carfloat, 3) several other warehouses in that port area, 4) allied rail rebuilders, 5) another industry possibly located on that thin right hand shelf, or 6) maybe even the brick factory or waterfront scene down in the far corner on that right hand deck.
(that little switcher working that side of the peninsula might be given its own little 'home' in one of the arches of the via-duct)
That little switcher might be a steam type like the infamous 'docksiders', or it might be a swarm of trackmobile types. Those multiple little switchers might lie in wait on that one siding next to allied rail rebuilders.
One of the 'port warehouses' I am considering is utilizing either the Walthers Waterstreet Freight Terminal kit, or the P2K 'Moore & Co' structure located approx here,..
Doing the last few days I rebuilt the substructures for my stone arch viaduct/bridge that appears in the background(s) of where my central peninsula meets the layout. I had wanted to finalize these structure sizes and exact placement so I could move on to finalizing the track plan(s) on the peninsula itself.The structure(s) first out front of the viaduct on that one side were the roundhouse and the turntable. I had now finished building my new turntable pit, and mounting the footprint of my roundhouse onto its new metal base piece. There were a couple of obstacles I need to consider in exact location of that big roundhouse,...a) how close that rear corner might be fit to the arch bridge, and b) clearance for a piece of all-thread rod that might be eventually be erected in a vertical manner to support the overhead steel beam that stretches across the entire room to support the upper logging area. That all-thread rod may never be used, but I wanted to make sure to not cover up my pre-drilled hole just in case.
So here is that final location of the turntable and roundhouse, and subsequently the tracks involved.
One particular trouble spot presented me with lots of problems,...the connection of the container yard's incoming track from that slip switch, with the yard track itself, and the two curved tracks exiting the yard to go to the turntable. It involves a dbl-curved turnout, a long Y turnout, and single turnout. These all have to be smoothly connected together them selves, while at the same time providing the proper angles to the group's 4 'arms'. As I had mocked it up originally, it was not going to work.
I eventually got it worked out by overlapping ever so lightly the dbl curve and the Y turnouts
One of the major results sought was how to keep that upper 24-25” r left curving track from reaching to far up into the turntable zone, and still providing a fair lead into the turntable itself. I'm still debating the use of a std small radius left hand turnout here vs a short Y turnout.
Barrier PlateAs I was working on this left hand side of the center peninsula container yard area, a new thought occurred to me. The track close to the edge would likely need some sort of protection from someone in the aisle knocking trains off that edge. Why not have a barrier that would incorporate a 'backdrop image?
So here is what I've come up with so far,...just a quick mock-up. Mount a vertical barrier along that edge, and on its inner face a picture of stacked containers, and ship loading cranes off in the background.
On the opposite side of that barrier plate, perhaps just photos of stacked containers.
Having that barrier plate there would permit me to move that track a bit closer to the edge, thus providing a little extra real estate on the central peninsula. So now it is 1+3/4” from the edge.