Currently building my base benchwork with under layout staging (before adding the layout above). Debating how I want to go with controlling switches in the staging. This area will eventually wrap the room 10" under the layout with a depth no greater than 24" from the front. Staging will completely loop under the layout and allow for continuous running with helixes on both ends. Looking at possibly using Caboose Industries manual switch throws as a way of controlling costs in this area. Anyone else using manual throws on their layout? With dozens of switches in the staging, is it really worth it to put out a lot of money to have the luxury of not having to reach in and throw a switch manually.
With only 10" of vertical clearance, reaching in a packed staging yard to operate ground those is just asking to knock trains over. There are far less expensive options than Tortoises to add powered switch machines. You might be better off using the Caboose throws on the visible part of the layout, where there is easier accesibility.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
jpdriverWith dozens of switches in the staging, is it really worth it to put out a lot of money to have the luxury of not having to reach in and throw a switch manually.
Sounds like a complex layout, with lots of turnouts. It's really your call, will you be able to reach everything? With only 10" below the layout, and 24" deep, it might be a problem reaching any turnouts that are towards the back.
Maybe you could use a piece of card board, or something, to "mock-up" the layout above the staging, and make sure you can reach everything.
Mike.
EDIT: Same thoughts as Randy.
My You Tube
you might consider a mechanical linkage controlled from the fascia.
one with an electrical switch to control a tunout position indicator may also be useful.
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
10" of clearance or 10" deck-to-deck.
Does 'clearance' account for the 3" rail to top of cars? That might leave only 7" for arm room. Does 'clearance' include a couple of inches for upper deck framing. Might leave only 5" or so for arms.
I'm leaning towards remote switch machines unless there is plenty of elbow room. Knocking over or derailing yard trains can be very frustrating.
Maybe a full-sized mock up and test would help decide.
Robert
LINK to SNSR Blog
I like simple, I feel switch machines are just one more thing that will stop working at some point,and then you have the extra cost.
I use mostly caboose throws,all within easy reach. I did have to add longer throw bars to some.but simple and cheap.
I have a few Peco, spring loaded turn outs, that are controlled with a finger, and a few with just a long stiff wire that runs under the layout.
There are a few videos on how to make over center springs, so that just a finger or whatever could be used, I havent got around to mess with em yet
UNCLEBUTCH I like simple, I feel switch machines are just one more thing that will stop working at some point,and then you have the extra cost. I use mostly caboose throws,all within easy reach. I did have to add longer throw bars to some.but simple and cheap.
My 1st mentor suggested using caboose throws in crowded areas (i.e. yards). It looks more realistic since many yards are quite old. He also mentioned to have them than a series of underground devices in such a small space to avoid cars getting tipped over, etc.
What kind and size of turnouts are you going to use? Atlas turnouts, particularly Snap Switches, are cheaper than going with Shinoharas and Tortoises. They're not for longer engines and cars, but if you run short diesel power and Transition Era rolling stock you may be fine.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
My grandpa is building a similar staging yard on his layout, except he plans to potentially use the yard for switching and classification if he has operated interested in doing that, and he chose to use the Blue Point switch machines. They seem to be a good fit!
The thing with Blue points is you need to run the cables to where ever you’ll be running the yard from, or you won’t really solve the reach issue! My grandpa is also making use of a few tortoises for the switches were running a cable to a Blue Point won’t work.
Regards, Isaac
I model my railroad and you model yours! I model my way and you model yours!
You could use Atlas switches that already have the switch machine attached. If a switch machine fails, they are easy to change as they snap into place on the switch.
Just be sure to wire the switch machine before you put them in place. Then push the other end of the wire through the wire hole as you install the switch.
I originally used Caboose Industries ground throws for most of my turnouts...
...but have gradually been replacing the readily accessible ones with piano wire springs like these...
...and Central Valley switchstands...
The turnouts are aligned with the flick of a fingertip, and, for photographic purposes, the switchstands' targets can be manually aligned to suit the chosen path.While most of the CI switchstands on the layout proper will be converted in that manner, some, no longer easily accessible due to the addition of a partial upper level, will get remote control, either with Blue Point devices or turnout motors from Rapido and Fulgurex.
However, all five staging areas will retain their Caboose Industries ground throws, as they're very reliable and all five staging areas are readily accessible. Four of them can be seen here...
On the upper level, usually operated while I'm standing on a step stool, I've done a couple of turnouts with extensions to control turnouts either beyond reach or with limited room for the installation of a ground throw...
Depending on the layout of the turnouts for your staging tracks, you may be able to add similar piano wire extensions for the more distant tracks, and control them with the CI ground throws.
Wayne
I combined Peco switch machines and Caboose industry throws on my layout. The Pecos are used for my switches that are hard to reach, and for those that I use more often. They are a pain to install (mine are under the table), but I must say that they work extremely well. So the yard is all switch-machined (a new verb is born!), and the industry sidings are all manual-switched. So far, I am satisfied with this arrangement. I do have to get up from my seat to switch the sidings, but I have to get up anyway to monitor the uncoupling operations. The other advantage of the Caboose industry switch is that I can easily tell (from a distance) if the switches are in the correct position, the upright position being the default mainline position. I know that can be done using lights on the control panel, but I don't particularly like working on these things on my control panel.
Simon
Hello All,
SouthPennYou could use Atlas switches that already have the switch machine attached. If a switch machine fails, they are easy to change as they snap into place on the switch.
All Atlas HO turnouts have the ability to have either a manual- or remote-switch machine. With the exception of the "under table", both can be activated manually.
These are solenoid-type switch machines. This means, if power is applied for too long you can burn out the solenoid.
PECO Side Mounted Turnout Motors are also solenoid-type switch machines, so they can be combined with Atlas remote-switch machines. These too can be activated manually.
If you do decide to use the solenoid-type I highly recommend using a Capacitive Discharge Units(s) [CDU(s)].
This unit puts out a "pulse" of electricity to activate the solenoid as opposed to a push-button or toggle switch, which can be activated for too long and burn out the solenoid.
On my pike I have both Atlas & PECO tunouts controlled by one switch. Before installing the CDU neither turnout would move. Now, with the CDU both move simultaneously.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
Another thing just came to mind; All thouse switch machines must be wired to some sort of control pannel.Wires should be marked for troulbe shoting.
How mutch do you enjoy elect. problem solving?
If there is a issue with my turnouts, I know exactly where to look.
just thinking out loud
Great input by all. My staging deck is 24" deep, but I only plan to use about 16" of it (N Scale). I will continue to think this through. Maybe a combination of switch machines to the back half so I am not reaching over trains to try and touch switches and manual throws up front. I also like the piano wire option as a simple and inexpensive solution to move the manual throws to the front of the table.
I have a number of Peco switch machines on hand and plan to use them up top on the main in harder to reach areas.
Thank you all for your thoughts and experiences!
Joe
UNCLEBUTCHAnother thing just came to mind; All thouse switch machines must be wired to some sort of control pannel (sic).Wires should be marked for troulbbe (sic) shooting.
As I said in my previous post my switch machines are Atlas and PECO solenoid type.
These have three poles on each machine (Note: PECOs are hardwired):
(Note: To simplify wiring of the PECO Side Mounted Turnout Motors I switch the PECO color coding to the Atlas color-coding- -Green>Black, Black>Red, Red>Green.)
On my pike I use terminal strips to power the turnouts.
From the control panel there is one common (Black) to the terminal strip that is wired in parallel.
Each switch then has two wires from the control panel to the terminal strip. From the terminal strip three wires run to the switch machines.
To identify which sets wires run from the control panel to which switch machines(s) I use a two (2) color banding code. For more turnouts you can add a third or fourth color band.
You can use colored electrical tape or a product called Tape 'N Tell. This product is designed to mark surgical instruments and is designed to withstand the heat and pressure of an autoclave. It is about 1/4-inch wide so even a four (4) color band code is manageable.
I prefer this method because, as a former master electrician I apprenticed under used to say, "You don't have to 'read' a color."
One suggestion would be to design the track plan to put the turnouts on the aisle so they are reachable. Then use caboose ground throws right on the edge on the benchwork. I did this - works very well.
You could also use mechanical extenders with caboose throws as Wayne suggests.
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
Blue Point controllers have a good reputation and are cheaper than Tortoise machines or Atlas or Peco solenoids.
Hump Yard, as I recall, went out of business.
jpdriverMaybe a combination of switch machines to the back half so I am not reaching over trains to try and touch switches and manual throws up front.
I think there are two things that have not been mentioned.
If you think that there is any possibility, however remote, that you would contemplate having a dispatcher to line and throw main line turnouts, the staging yard turnouts would be considered part of the main line. Better off installing switch machines now rather than after. More difficult after the fact.
The other consideration is you age and general health. Anything that requires bending, twisting, reaching in/around/over/through to operate requires a certain degree of dexterity. Will you be able to do that when your elbow, arm, or shoulder decides to throw itself out for reasons unknown?
MisterBeasley Blue Point controllers have a good reputation and are cheaper than Tortoise machines or Atlas or Peco solenoids. Hump Yard, as I recall, went out of business.
They're cheaper than Tortoises, for sure. But not cheaper than Atlas solenoids. Though they do have electrical contacts, which Atlas solenoids do not.
The Bull Frog from Fast Tracks is the cheapest of those, works like the Bluepoint but you have to glue a couple peices of wood together yourself.
Many knows my layout is on the move since I live know in Quebec.
New plan is on the way for a big extension of the original layout.
New plan mean project decision and the use of switch machine are one of the very important decision to take early in the beginning, because of control, wiring and display.
After a lot of thinking and also looking at the future budget, I come with this final decision.
I will use again Tortoise and Switchmaster/Hankscraft display motor for switch machine like in the past; the results were sucessful after more than 45 years of use.
But the new track plan is huge, the design is a long along the walls with two big peninsula; first mesurations go over 600 feet of track in N scale.
And course a lot of turnouts.
Decision is to use switch machine on all the turnouts which are on the main or turnouts which have an action on the main.
All the turnouts which go to industrial spurs or second siding track or in industry will be manualy moved; I would use Caboose Industries Ground throw, but not on the layout but with linkage to operate them from the fascia.
Yard will be entirely operated with switch machines.
I have already ordered a few Caboose ground throw to make some testing with long linkage ( max 1' distance)
Other options are also envisioned for manual control from the fascia.
I feel local turnouts could be operated manualy especialy if they are needed for local operations.
Main need a full control, local and from a centralised control, may be a CTC, but not sure for now; the main turnout can be also operated to make routes or move with block occupancy and signals.
About Hankscraft display motors, I have ordered them years ago with a big order (120 motors) and the price at this time was very low, the old invoice show me a price of 7.50$ each; I already have ask a new offer and will share the price with you as an information.
I'm extremly happy with the use of these motors and the so easy way to put them under a turnout; they ask nearly no adjustment.