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New layout

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Posted by Doughless on Monday, August 26, 2019 8:36 AM

Michael.  Adding the turntable adds depth to the benchwork, making the duckunder to the pit a longer travel for your head.

You probably visualize what the layout will look like, but try playing with flipping the deep scenes to the top of the plan and keep the shallower scenes near the duckunder.  

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Posted by Tinplate Toddler on Monday, August 26, 2019 8:56 AM

If you think you can comfortably reach over a span of 35", try ballasting track or solder a feeder wire over that distance. If you manage to do that in a satisfactory manner, than add scenery to it ...

I am 6´5" and although my reach extends over that span, I think it is sufficient to pick up a derailed car or engine, but not to do any serious modelling work.

Happy times!

Ulrich (aka The Tin Man)

"You´re never too old for a happy childhood!"

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Posted by Motley on Monday, August 26, 2019 5:01 PM

When laying track, wiring, and ballasting I can just hop up on the benchwork, using an extra peice of foam to not damage the base foam.

I only weigh 145lbs. Thats what I did on my last layout, because I had some long reaches on there as well.

 

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Posted by rrinker on Monday, August 26, 2019 6:07 PM

 Here's the thing - you're doing modern era, do you really need a turntable? Or maybe put it over by the door where you have it marked for a diesel house, if you want to say they kept the old turntable, why not keep the roundhouse as well, and that's the "diesel house". Then narrow that side and brong the yard tracks clooser, or push out the station tracks and expand the donut hole.

                                    --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

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Posted by Motley on Monday, August 26, 2019 8:18 PM

Randy, I wanted to add a turn table because I like to run steam excusions, UP 844 is my favorite!

Ok I think I've got it now. I moved the passenger station to the outside right corner. And was able to get all the yard tracks closer. Reduced the benchwork 2" and now will have a 32" reach to the passenger tracks.

What do you guys think now?

Michael


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Posted by Doughless on Tuesday, August 27, 2019 7:47 AM

I think you have a lot of big pieces trying to fit into a small space.  I'm wondering if you can't shed 1.

For design and space utilization efficiency, the big turntable should go into a foreground corner somewhere, with the main tracks wrapping around its backside.  The diesel house tracks should either come off of the turntable only, or originate very close to the turntable.

By comparison, your space usage is not maximized since you have very long approaches to the turntable and diesel house.  You are essentially using 15 ft of valuable straight trackage (where you could put two of your big structures, like maybe the depot) just to get to them.

I think it would make sense to try to get the flood loader along a wall somehow and the mine close to it but outside of the tracks in a corner.  The depot can go in the open space where the TT is now.  The brewery could be in a more congested setting like near the yard (eventhough the real coors brewery is probably more in the open). Maybe revers the tracks that are now accessing the depot and place the brewery along the wall, near the duckunder. (the tracks angle a bit there giving you more room for the structures)

And from an operational standpoint, the layout would probably function better if the crossovers between the mainlines occurred just before and after the yard, so the trains could enter the yard or depart the yard from the outer (or inner) mainline.

BTW:  are the bathroom and closet doors supposed to be accessible?

Edit:  Play with this.  Take the entire SE corner and try to group those curved tracks as close together as possible and push them into the corner as much as possible (you may have to compromise and use 32 inch radius).  Put the TT in the foreground corner, and reverse the depot access tracks so the turnout originates from the SE corner and heads to the duckunder.  This will be the new brewery spur.  (Do you really need three tracks for the brewery (a luxury you can't afford, IMO))

Angle the mainline and yard tracks from the SE corner to the front of the benchwork near the duckunder, creating room for the brewery to be placed along the wall.  I assume these buildings are narrow and can abutt the backdrop, saving valuable inches.

Place the depot in the front where the TT is now, and find a way to access the TT from near there.  You might be able to squeeze in the diesel house too. 

Try to keep all of the tracks on this shelf as straight and as close together as possible.

Leave the left side of the layout pretty much as is, except install a crossover.

The right side no longer has the brewery, so put the flood loader there, I say accessible from the outer track, and place the mine in the upper right corner (maybe angle the outer main to parallel the inner main to give you more space).

The entire backside is your open area with your bridge scene (that I remember you did very well last time)

Does this make sense?  The bottom shelf will be a tight fit, but I think its best to try to group some big pieces and a lot of straight track there. 

- Douglas

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Posted by Motley on Tuesday, August 27, 2019 6:51 PM

irst of all thank you Dougles I appreciate all the help with the new plan. Damn I thought I had it.

Ok the turntable. Shouldn't it be close to the edge proximity for operating it. Not sure why you are suggesting put in a corner 32" away?

The reason why I left space open near the turntable and deisel house is so I can have a place to lean over to uncouple cars. When I lay the yard tracks I will get the straight with 2.5" center spacing.

Mainline crossover before and after the yard, I will add these, Im using free version of anyrail and I run out of track peices.

I want to keep Coors with 3 tracks, because I want to use the Coors switcher and real Coors has a yard with many tracks. Not sure I want it close to yard tracks is in Golden with surrounding mountains on all sides. The inside Coors track will also serve as staging track.

For the coal mine and flood loader. The upper left corner I want to build some rock cliffs and trees there.

The reason why I moved the Depot to the outside edge is reaching over the large building to the yard tracks will be difficult.

Ok I was able to move the turntable a bit and added another yard track. Added the spur for Aggregate Sand Transfer facilty.

If you want to draw your plan out for me I would like to see what you come up with.

Michael


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Posted by Doughless on Wednesday, August 28, 2019 7:26 AM

Motley

irst of all thank you Dougles I appreciate all the help with the new plan. Damn I thought I had it.

Ok the turntable. Shouldn't it be close to the edge proximity for operating it. Not sure why you are suggesting put in a corner 32" away?

The reason why I left space open near the turntable and deisel house is so I can have a place to lean over to uncouple cars. When I lay the yard tracks I will get the straight with 2.5" center spacing.

Mainline crossover before and after the yard, I will add these, Im using free version of anyrail and I run out of track peices.

I want to keep Coors with 3 tracks, because I want to use the Coors switcher and real Coors has a yard with many tracks. Not sure I want it close to yard tracks is in Golden with surrounding mountains on all sides. The inside Coors track will also serve as staging track.

For the coal mine and flood loader. The upper left corner I want to build some rock cliffs and trees there.

The reason why I moved the Depot to the outside edge is reaching over the large building to the yard tracks will be difficult.

Ok I was able to move the turntable a bit and added another yard track. Added the spur for Aggregate Sand Transfer facilty.

If you want to draw your plan out for me I would like to see what you come up with.

 

Yes, you have lots of big pieces who's prototypical setting places them in the middle of wide open Western USA spaces, even the Depot, IIRC.  That's difficult to do all of that in 15 x 12, but your vision and druthers is what matters, not mine.

But you misunderstood about the TT. The TT would be in the SE corner, close to the front edge, even right on the edge if you wanted.  The rest of the trackage would curve around its backside, between the TT and the backdrop.  The mainline trackage would be 32" from the edge....if that....not the TT, but some of those curves might have to be 32" radius.  (You could use Walthers #8 or even #7.5 curved turnouts to start buling the yard). The 32 inch radius really shouldn't be a problem for any of your equipment.  You'd have to relocate the Depot to make a little room for the mainlines, but you would have the space for the Depot where the TT is now.

Then angle the mainline and yard tracks from the SE corner, which would now be close to the backdrop, towards the front edge of the benchwork as you travel towards the duckunder. Or, you could leave them as is which would create some space between them and the new location of the Depot, if reaching over it is a big concern. (BTW, most uncoupling in yards is done at the ends, with the locomotives, not right in the middle where the Depot might be in the way)

I'm not trying to redraw your plan. As is noted, we don't really know your priorities and vision, so specific comments can become moot.

I'm merely looking at the big picture of space utilization and seeing places where it could be improved.

If you look at a lot of track plans, oftentimes the TT is located inside of a curve, not in the middle of a straight section, because placing it inside of a curve uses the benchwork space better.  But if that conflicts with your vision and priorities, I guess that wouldn't be an option.

If I were to redraw your plan from a clean slate, I would start by placing a perfectly-to-scale 38 inch radius curve in the SE corner as close to the backdrop as I could, and then a 36 inch radius curve immediately inside of that to give me my double mainline, then start building the yard off of those, angling all tracks away from the backdrop and towards the front edge as I moved towards the duckunder, keeping them as straight as possible and as close together as I could handle.

If the 38/36 radius curves did not fit, I would try 36/34.

Then the rest of the layout would flow off of that critical SE corner nest in both directions.

If the flood loader were in the NE, I don't think that would stop you from putting rock cliffs in the NW or NE corner somehow. 

Again, if your vision is set, then its hard to do this.

But often times as time passes, and you play with designs, your vision changes as you realize how each druther is competing for space.

BTW: as far as the brewery, if it was placed along the backdrop where is says "bathroom door", the yard trackage in front would give the appearence of the brewery plant tracks in Golden.  It could still be scenicked as wide open.  You might have to compromise and only have space for one or two spurs to actually park brewery railcars on them, but the entire rows of tracks would still look like the brewery complex if you took an isolated photo of just that scene.  All JMO.

Also, the prototype Depot likely has a few straight tracks, not curved tracks, either in front of it or behind it, or both.  Relocating the model to where the TT is now conveys that scene better than having it in the corner, where you have it now.  Again, JMO.

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Wednesday, August 28, 2019 8:55 AM

Doughless
Yes, you have lots of big pieces who's prototypical setting places them in the middle of wide open Western USA spaces, even the Depot, IIRC.  That's difficult to do all of that in 15 x 12, but your vision and druthers is what matters, not mine.

Thats often the dilemma isn't it.  We have chamgagne tasts and a light beer space budget!

Back when Motley was posting photo's of his previous layout, in apparently the same space, it did give the impression of more wide open spaces and photographed well.  Just those trains didn't have much room to stretch their legs. 

I know how that is.  My last layout was 10x18' and a 20-25 car train, same deal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yb72oyv1Izs

 

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

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Posted by Doughless on Wednesday, August 28, 2019 8:59 AM

Wide open western spaces on a shelf layout.  Liberal use of high quality photo backdrops conveys that feeling, if not just simple pale blue walls, IMO.

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Posted by RR_Mel on Wednesday, August 28, 2019 9:28 AM

Doughless

Wide open western spaces on a shelf layout.  Liberal use of high quality photo backdrops conveys that feeling, if not just simple pale blue walls, IMO.

 

For those like me with absolutely no artistry skills using paint brushes I bought a couple of cheapo blue sky with clouds backdrops and they look very good to me as well as our visitors.
 
 
 
Shipping was pretty fast from China and I think that $40 is a very good price for a 10’ x 8’ print.  They come folded up and the vinyl wrinkles disappeared after hanging them in the sun twice for 6 hours each.  The vinyl is thick enough that they don’t tare and the print quality is better than great.
 
20 minutes hanging them sure beats several days screwing up a wall with paint.  I cut them in half so I ended up with 40’ x 4’ very pretty cloud covered walls.
 
 
Mel
 
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
 
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Posted by Motley on Wednesday, August 28, 2019 3:31 PM

Ok well I am just going to go with my latest plan. I'm getting a bunch of woody pink things tomorrow. I kinda stopped on benchwork while I was finalizing my plan.

Hell.. you guys all know a layout is never finished. So if I don't like something it can always be changed, even after track and scenery is done.

Did I mentioned that I was so excited to build a new layout. 3 years is way too long without a hobby and broke.

 

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Posted by rrinker on Wednesday, August 28, 2019 4:35 PM

 It's been 6 years for me. Got a dumpster and some help for the long weekend to tear out the old walls and stuff, so finally starting!

                                 --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

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Posted by ROBERT PETRICK on Wednesday, August 28, 2019 6:06 PM

Motley

Hell.. you guys all know a layout is never finished.

Yes, and that goes double for layouts that are never started.

You get credit for taking the plunge, and rest assured . . . you have a lot of support here.

Good luck.

Robert 

LINK to SNSR Blog


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Posted by Doughless on Thursday, August 29, 2019 7:47 AM

Good luck Michael.  Please share your progress.

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Posted by jim81147 on Friday, August 30, 2019 8:46 PM

Motley

Your are right mobileman, I should keep Coors brewery.

Ok Coors is back, and I also made a track for a coal flood loader, and moved the coal mine to the right corner.

 

 

  Michael , isnt that coal loader on the Navajo reservation between Tuba city and Cayenta ?

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Posted by Motley on Friday, August 30, 2019 9:24 PM

 No sir, that is the Henderson Coal Mine in Empire, CO. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henderson_molybdenum_mine

 

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Posted by rrinker on Saturday, August 31, 2019 2:30 PM

 Thought that looked familiar. When I went through Rocky Mountain National Forest, I went in on the Estes Park side, and then came down 40 through Winter Park and Empire to get back.

                            --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by Motley on Saturday, August 31, 2019 5:59 PM

rrinker

 Thought that looked familiar. When I went through Rocky Mountain National Forest, I went in on the Estes Park side, and then came down 40 through Winter Park and Empire to get back.

                            --Randy

  

Nice! Very beautiful area there, I was just in Estes Park like 2 weeks ago. The coal mining industry up there is booming now. I just hope they never do the blasting mountain top mining (which is horrible) like they do in the Apalacians.

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Posted by Motley on Saturday, August 31, 2019 6:07 PM

Look what just showed up at my house! I had to have Home Depot deliver it because I don't have a truck.

This is close to $450 worth of stuff sitting here. The foamboard is 1.5".

I ended up taking down the section of benchwork I already had, because I am changing the height and width of the benchwork.

I have everything I need now. I have Mon, Tue, and Wed off next week, so plenty of time to work on the benchwork!

Michael


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Posted by BNSF UP and others modeler on Saturday, August 31, 2019 6:15 PM

Motley

Look what just showed up at my house! I had to have Home Depot deliver it because I don't have a truck.

This is close to $450 worth of stuff sitting here. The foamboard is 1.5".

I ended up taking down the section of benchwork I already had, because I am changing the height and width of the benchwork.

I have everything I need now. I have Mon, Tue, and Wed off next week, so plenty of time to work on the benchwork!

 

Yes Nice! Make sure to update us on progress!

I'm beginning to realize that Windows 10 and sound decoders have a lot in common. There are so many things you have to change in order to get them to work the way you want.

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Posted by Motley on Wednesday, September 4, 2019 10:30 PM

Well I made that pile of wood look like this. I got one 8 ft section completed. 4 more sections to go. Just kinda taking my time and make sure I do it right. Also this is a lot of hardwork and my arms feel like rubber. LOL

This is the top/right end where the mountain scene will be.

Michael


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Posted by Motley on Friday, September 6, 2019 1:59 AM

A change in plans. I decided I want to model Denver Union Station, instead of Cheyenne Depot. Since all of the other areas are in Colorado I might as well stick to that.

I pushed some of the yard tracks closer, and now the curve radius in the lower right will be around 33" or 34". I'll know when I start laying track.

The problem now is... how in the heck do I model the new Denver platform? I might have to ask CMR to see if they can custom build this platform.

I found this faller station platform, this might get close to the open style platforms. https://www.euromodeltrains.com/products/Faller/120193

Or maybe I can kitbash this faller train shed, and cut open the center?

https://www.euromodeltrains.com/products/Faller/120199

Michael


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Posted by rrinker on Friday, September 6, 2019 7:23 AM

 None of your newest pics seem to be showing up. The old ones are still there. Too much bandwidth use? 

                              --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

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Posted by Motley on Friday, September 6, 2019 9:10 AM

rrinker

 None of your newest pics seem to be showing up. The old ones are still there. Too much bandwidth use? 

                              --Randy

 

 
Stupid Google photo's keep giving me issues. I stopped sharing them, and shared again. Can you see them now.

Michael


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Posted by rrinker on Friday, September 6, 2019 11:32 AM

 The Denver Union Station ones now do, but the ones in the post above which I presume are the benchwork you built with the stack of supplies still do not. That's two different browsers on two different networks now.

                                        --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

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Posted by Motley on Saturday, September 7, 2019 4:59 PM

Yet another update on the trackplan. I added a power plant so that I can have a destination for the coal. 

Moved the coal mine to the right. Oil Refinery is now in lower left. Frac Sand facilty is now in top left corner.

Michael


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Posted by Motley on Tuesday, September 10, 2019 4:40 PM

Ok listen to this guys. I was thinking today. Theres another bedroom next to this. Its in the lower right corner, where the closet is. I'm not really using that bedroom, just have some boxes in there right now.

That bedroom is 9x12. I could poke a hole in the wall and run a track through there. It would be totally seperated from this layout room I have here. And I was thinking that since Walthers is releasing the new Steel Mill series, I could build a steel mill in that second bedroom.

My old layout I actually had plans to build a steel mill but never did. Did all kinds of research, I already have modeling steel mills guide.

So it would be like having two seperate layouts operational wise. But at least the possiblity for expansion is there.

 

Michael


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Posted by Motley on Tuesday, September 10, 2019 9:08 PM

Ok this is what I came up with for a possilbe Steel Mill in the next room.

Michael


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Posted by SPSOT fan on Tuesday, September 10, 2019 10:50 PM

I think this separate layout idea is great, and it will give you something different to model once you finish the other layout. My one concern would be when you start building the layouts, one may get more attention than the other and the other may never get worked on. What I’m saying is you may work on just one layout, at least until it is operational, and then start on the next layout.

Regarding the track plan you’ve drawn up, the only big issue I see is a lack of a run around. Since you have both facing and trailing point switches you’ll need a runaround to deliver cars to all the industries. Also you will need to figure out what to do about staging cars, if you will run trains onto the steal layout directly from the main layout then that’s not a huge issue, but if you want this to be an independent layout you’ll need to have an interchange track capable of holding all the cars from the various industries on the layout.

Regards, Isaac

I model my railroad and you model yours! I model my way and you model yours!

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