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New layout

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  • Member since
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  • From: Denver, CO
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New layout
Posted by Motley on Friday, August 16, 2019 4:40 PM

Hello guys I'm back. After a 3 year hiatus not having a layout I am back and ready to resume building my layout. Life stuff happens, and I had to sell most of my trains, so gonna have to start all over.

To give you some context, 3 years ago I moved into a new home. This layout is in a spare bedroom 12x16 will be around the walls with entrance duckunder.

HO Scale code 83
12' x 15.5'
Min radius 36"
Track height 42"
Era  1999-Current
D&RGW, UP, BNSF
location is Moffat Line Middle Park, CO to Cheyenne, WY

I had already started on the benchwork 3 years ago. And I have decided to change the plan a bit. Decided I don't want to deal with an access hole for the large loop.

Let me know what y'll think.

Old plan

New plan

Michael


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Posted by BNSF UP and others modeler on Friday, August 16, 2019 4:52 PM

You might be able to fashion a gate or liftout to open up your layout to the access hole, which would eliminate the need to duck. The reason I propose this is because I think you should stick with your first plan. It looks more unsymetrical, seems to have more operation potential, and just overall appears more realistic and prototypical.

Just my My 2 Cents. Its your layout, after all.

BNSF: Big and Noisy but Surely Fascinating!

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Posted by UNCLEBUTCH on Friday, August 16, 2019 6:33 PM

 I suggest you think long and hard about the duck under. I can tell you from first hand experence they get old really fast..

As to the plans; I really like shelf types, so the 2nd one gets my vote,for whatever thats worth

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Friday, August 16, 2019 7:10 PM

UNCLEBUTCH
I suggest you think long and hard about the duck under. I can tell you from first hand experence they get old really fast.

.

I will second this.

.

I had a duckunder in the "Spare Bedroom" layout when first built, and it came out a few months later.

.

-Kevin

.

Wink Happily modeling my STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD. A Class A line located in a personal fantasy world of semi-plausible nonsense on Tuesday, August 3rd, 1954.

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Friday, August 16, 2019 8:36 PM

The solution to a duck under is a well constructed lift out or lift up. My new layout will have one to enter the layout area, and one to go from the layout area to the workshop area.

Those nimble enough can duck, those not so nimble can lift up and walk thru, they will not need to be traversed to operate the layout.

My new layout plan does not have any space wasting turnback loops against walls (the curves will be big, such a loop would require an 8' x 8' space), and as you view the layout, West is always to your left, East is always to your right. The layout will go along the walls, all the way around the room, with two peninsulas out into the room.

So, since the stairs do not come down in the center of the room, you will have to "get inside" the layout to enter the room. A situation I have no trouble with.

There are no reverse loops on the layout, but you can turn a whole train - there will be a wye on the mainline which feeds a 20' long staging yard.

Sheldon  

    

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Posted by Motley on Friday, August 16, 2019 10:49 PM

Thanks, I appreciate all the feedback on this. I believe I can deal with the entrance duckunder as I am a small guy.

My other layout at the other house was just horrible, access holes everywhere.

The reason I reduced some of those operating industries, turntable, etc. is I prefer seeing long trains running through mountain scenery. I can just manually switch trains out with 5 finger.

I also plan on building a table in the middle for dcc system, program track, and storage for trains.

This is the benchwork I have now, so just need to cut part of this out.

Michael


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Posted by selector on Saturday, August 17, 2019 8:56 AM

You can still have a duck-under and not get a skinned back.  The idea is to sit on a computer desk, or some other rolling, chair/stool, and use that to scooch under the benchwork.  Stand up on the other side, or raise what you're sitting on for a better view.

Aside from that (and I have had either a duck-under or a lift-out on all my four layouts to date), you have a fair whack of unused space.  I would find a way to at least have a 'turning eye' type peninsula running from left toward the centre of the room.  Otherwise, I really have decided that around-the-room layouts give me the most enjoyment and he longest runs...

...but only when they comprise a folded loop.  

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Posted by snjroy on Saturday, August 17, 2019 9:08 AM

Keep in mind that when you enter your layout, you often do so with something in your hands (e.g. that expensive and fragile steam engine...). A hinged liftout is a bit of a pain to build, but it really makes it much more easy to enter without damaging anything. Visitors will prefer a liftout for sure. We have a duck under at the club and it's a pain!

Simon

PS: I vote for plan 2. Nice and simple.

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Posted by jalajoie on Saturday, August 17, 2019 9:14 AM

Glad to see you are back.

 

Jack W.

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Posted by UNCLEBUTCH on Saturday, August 17, 2019 9:52 AM

snjroy
Keep in mind that when you enter your layout, you often do so with something in your hands (e.g. that expensive and fragile steam engine...). A

 That was the problem I had. Its one thing to just squat down andmove forward,try doing it with your hands. full. Then fast forward a coulpe of years and ask your body to do it.

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Posted by mobilman44 on Saturday, August 17, 2019 2:05 PM
I like the first track plan more than the second one. That first track plan has a lot more visual interest. If you lay the turnouts carefully, you will have little need to use the access hole.
 
Did you give up on modeling the Coors brewery (I recall that from your earlier posts)? 
 
I drove by it years ago and it was pretty impressive, and would make an interesting and unusual scene.  
 
Good luck with your progress!

ENJOY  !

 

Mobilman44

 

Living in southeast Texas, modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central 

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Posted by Motley on Saturday, August 17, 2019 4:24 PM

Your are right mobileman, I should keep Coors brewery.

Ok Coors is back, and I also made a track for a coal flood loader, and moved the coal mine to the right corner.

Michael


Director -
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Prototype: D&RGW, UP, BNSF Moffat sub

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Posted by mobilman44 on Saturday, August 17, 2019 4:57 PM

What is that "house" in the center photo surrounded by the tankage.  Looks like a restaurant or "tasting room" or ???

ENJOY  !

 

Mobilman44

 

Living in southeast Texas, modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central 

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Posted by Motley on Sunday, August 18, 2019 2:00 PM

mobilman44

What is that "house" in the center photo surrounded by the tankage.  Looks like a restaurant or "tasting room" or ???

 

 
That is Coors Family Mansion. Rich scratch built it for me, but I don't have it any more. I had to get rid of some of my model railroading items.
 
I need to buy a new NCE DCC system, locomotives, and rolling stock.
 

Michael


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Posted by mobilman44 on Sunday, August 18, 2019 3:00 PM

Sorry to hear you had to get rid of stuff.  Did that mansion and other stuff get "ebayed", or ?

ENJOY  !

 

Mobilman44

 

Living in southeast Texas, modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central 

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Posted by Motley on Sunday, August 18, 2019 3:32 PM

mobilman44

Sorry to hear you had to get rid of stuff.  Did that mansion and other stuff get "ebayed", or ?

 

 
I was throwing out some boxes and the mansioin was in there, had no idea (sorry Rich). Yes I sold the items on ebay, was broke as hell.

Michael


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Posted by ROBERT PETRICK on Sunday, August 18, 2019 3:38 PM

Motley
mobilman44

What is that "house" in the center photo surrounded by the tankage.  Looks like a restaurant or "tasting room" or ???

 
That is Coors Family Mansion. Rich scratch built it for me, but I don't have it any more. I had to get rid of some of my model railroading items.
 
I need to buy a new NCE DCC system, locomotives, and rolling stock.

I guess for a lot of family businesses the owners live above the store, and it seems the Coors are no different.

Robert 

LINK to SNSR Blog


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Posted by kasskaboose on Monday, August 19, 2019 1:21 PM

SeeYou190

 

UNCLEBUTCH
I suggest you think long and hard about the duck under. I can tell you from first hand experence they get old really fast.

 

.

I will second this.

.

I had a duckunder in the "Spare Bedroom" layout when first built, and it came out a few months later.

.

-Kevin

.

 

 

Cound me in for not using duck unders.  I had that one my 1st layout and it was annoying.  Thje 2nd one is more open without one. 

I like what you did with the foam cutout.  Do you still have enough reach? You want no more than 2' of a strech.  Doing that without a step stool is critical.

 
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Posted by Motley on Tuesday, August 20, 2019 3:08 PM

Ok here is the latest trackplan. I added a staging track, moved the coal mine next to the flood loader. And I made more room for Cheyenne Depot Station.

The longest reach will be 31" and I'm comfortable with that.

I cut out the big loop section on the benchwork. Here is what I got now. This is the upper right corner.

Michael


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Posted by Doughless on Wednesday, August 21, 2019 7:33 AM

Welcome back Michael!  Good to see that a new layout is on the way.

I remember the old plan.  Lots of popups at first that you reworked to make pretty functional, and you did western scenery very well, IMO. 

IIRC, you run big modern diesels and occaisionally some big steam.  And industries tend to be larger too, since they are made from modern kits.

I think your chosen plan is very good for the space, which is limited given your druthers.  You need broad radius curves, IMO, and a walk-in plan would simply not allow that in your given space. 

Given that its a duck under in a small space, I would want an area for a small workbench under the layout, so I wouldn't have to pop in and out of the layout just to do some quick work on equipment.  I would build the layout fairly high, about 54 inches, and place the bench under the layout's narrowest shelf, which is  on the left side. 

As another has mentioned, use of a rolling chair would be helpful, so I would want plenty of space in the middle like you have planed. I would refrain from adding any type of peninsula to the middle pit.

Looking forward to following your iterations and progress.  Thanks for sharing.   

Edit:  Just taking a quick look at the track arrangement, I think some of the angles you used for turnout frogs are pretty aggressive and unrealistic for #6 frogs.  You may have plenty of space to fit what you want where you have it, but I think some of the turnouts your drew would require more linear inches than what you have drawn.

- Douglas

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Posted by Pruitt on Wednesday, August 21, 2019 7:55 AM

Motley,

I can't see some of your graphics. They only show a grey circle with a white horizontal bar.

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Posted by Motley on Wednesday, August 21, 2019 4:48 PM

Doughless

Welcome back Michael!  Good to see that a new layout is on the way.

I remember the old plan.  Lots of popups at first that you reworked to make pretty functional, and you did western scenery very well, IMO. 

IIRC, you run big modern diesels and occaisionally some big steam.  And industries tend to be larger too, since they are made from modern kits.

I think your chosen plan is very good for the space, which is limited given your druthers.  You need broad radius curves, IMO, and a walk-in plan would simply not allow that in your given space. 

Given that its a duck under in a small space, I would want an area for a small workbench under the layout, so I wouldn't have to pop in and out of the layout just to do some quick work on equipment.  I would build the layout fairly high, about 54 inches, and place the bench under the layout's narrowest shelf, which is  on the left side. 

As another has mentioned, use of a rolling chair would be helpful, so I would want plenty of space in the middle like you have planed. I would refrain from adding any type of peninsula to the middle pit.

Looking forward to following your iterations and progress.  Thanks for sharing.   

Edit:  Just taking a quick look at the track arrangement, I think some of the angles you used for turnout frogs are pretty aggressive and unrealistic for #6 frogs.  You may have plenty of space to fit what you want where you have it, but I think some of the turnouts your drew would require more linear inches than what you have drawn.

 

 
Thank you Douglas, I appreciate all the feedback. You pretty much nailed everything. I like mountain scenery and seeing long freight and passenger trains. I wish I had more room for Coor, as they have their own switcher. It will be fun to do a little Coors switching.
 
Once I get to laying the track I can figure out the #6 switch arrangement. I can put #5's on the two industries. btw I will be using Peco and their under track selonoids. (same as my old layout).
 
I've learned a lot from my old layout. Had very bad benchwork which lead to not so level track, popup access holes, and too many areas where I was too far from the trains.
 
I will use the storage table in the middle for working on locos. And I will build some shelves under the benchwork to store enitre trains and switch them out.
 
I'm just happy that I am financially able to have a layout again. Very excited to build this layout!

Michael


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Posted by Motley on Wednesday, August 21, 2019 4:56 PM

Pruitt

Motley,

I can't see some of your graphics. They only show a grey circle with a white horizontal bar.

 

 
Hmm not sure, maybe try a different browser like Chrome. Thats what I use.

Michael


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Posted by BNSF UP and others modeler on Wednesday, August 21, 2019 5:14 PM

Motley

 

 
Pruitt

Motley,

I can't see some of your graphics. They only show a grey circle with a white horizontal bar.

 

 

 
Hmm not sure, maybe try a different browser like Chrome. Thats what I use.
 

 

I'm using chrome and I have the exact same problem...

BNSF: Big and Noisy but Surely Fascinating!

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Posted by Motley on Wednesday, August 21, 2019 6:57 PM

BNSF UP and others modeler

 damn, I'm using Google photos. I just changed some setttings. Let me know if you see this pic.

 
Motley

 

 
Pruitt

Motley,

I can't see some of your graphics. They only show a grey circle with a white horizontal bar.

 

 

 
Hmm not sure, maybe try a different browser like Chrome. Thats what I use.
 

 

 

 

I'm using chrome and I have the exact same problem...

 

Michael


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Posted by Motley on Saturday, August 24, 2019 10:28 PM

Ok I've been working on the trackplan some more. I now have added a 130' turntable to Cheyenne Yard, just like the prototype.

I'll have to extend the benchwork a bit more for that section. Reach for this area will be 35" now. I'm just gonna have to deal with it.

Michael


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Posted by snjroy on Sunday, August 25, 2019 7:43 AM

Who doesn't like turntables Smile. What I missed in this thread is location of your walls... Are they all around the layout? If that is the case, then 35" is very wide. Maintenance and things like fixing switches and faulty wiring will be very difficult, especially if you intend to have a higher layout. Another minor point: i would add a few tracks around the turntable to store some locos.

Simon

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Posted by RR_Mel on Sunday, August 25, 2019 9:34 AM

I have to go along with guys on the duckunder!   My knees started to go in the early 50s by the 60s I had to wear knee pads, by the 70s getting down on my knees was a no no, at 82 it’s “I’ve fallen down and can’t get up”.
 
You never know what might happen down the road, a simple accident can make your life miserable, especially ones back and knees.  Aging isn’t good on the body, my grandson just slipped when he was 23 and now has pain when kneeling at 31.
 
It really isn’t that tough to make a lift out or fold up bridge, I built one that worked great when I was 14 without any help.
 
EDIT:
 
I can't see all your pictures either in either Chrome, Internet Explorer or Firefox.
 
 
 
Mel
 
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
 
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Posted by Motley on Sunday, August 25, 2019 4:06 PM

The walls are on the outside. I've been doing some testing on my existing benchwork (I'm 5'9")  and I can reach 35" just fine and I can use a step stool if needed when working on track.

After I get the layout built and track down, I will see how comfortable I am. If needed I will install a lift up bridge.

Michael


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Posted by Motley on Monday, August 26, 2019 8:02 AM

Yet another update on the trackplan. I am worried about uncoupling at Cheyenne Yard. So I moved the yard tracks closer to the inside edge. Removed one of the passenger station tracks. And reduced the benchwork to 33". Also I will be reducing the height by 2" with a new track heighth of 40".

I also moved the coal mine and flood loader. And now I have room for an Oil Refinery (which was in my original plan).

Michael


Director -
Mile-HI-Railroad
Prototype: D&RGW, UP, BNSF Moffat sub

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