What to use to keep ground foam secure? There's a dizzying amount of information online, but I've not found a suitable strategy (this is also from my experience on the 1st layout). Should I follow the advice from MR?:
http://mrr.trains.com/how-to/realistic-scenery/2014/03/from-grass-mat-to-weed-patch
Here's my approach on the 1st layout: I used shaker bottles (old herb containers) and applied the ground foam to wet paint and sprayed it with cheap hair spray or wet water. Here were the issues: the foam didn't always stay put and the glue mix would clog up the spray bottles. I then resorted to applying the wet water with a spoon.
Thanks!
I use Gypsolite first, tinted with brown paint, to get a rough surface. Next is paint in a camouflage pattern, then fine turf sprinkled on. That gets fastened with isopropyl alcohol straight from the bottle applied with a pipette, and then diluted white glue from an Elmer's bottle. I put the ground foam in place in clumps and dribble on white glue to hold it. After it's all dry, put on static grass if you use that.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
the ground cover goes on in layers, coarse first .. held down with alcohol, then fixed with [in my case] thinned dap adhesive with alchohol and soap
I paint the area,add dirt, grd, foam and anything else I want. Then, first mist, and then wet with wet water. Go over all wih glue mix.
At times I need to fix some spots, but for the most part it's a one shot deal.
If I plan on static grass, I let the paint dry first
kasskabooseWhat to use to keep ground foam secure?....
My landforms are mostly Durabond patching plaster over aluminum screen, and I colour the plaster using thinned flat latex house paint - thinning it allows much easier application, as brushing it on unthinned makes complete coverage difficult. It also takes a lot more effort and a lot more paint...
Ground foam, and pretty-well anything else you might choose to use as ground cover, is applied similar to ballast, and I often do both in the same operation. There's no ballast needed for the area shown above, but the ground cover is added in layers, coarse, fine, etc., and in whatever colours you deem appropriate...
I then spray the entire area with "wet" water (tap water with a couple drops of dish detergent added). Use a good quality sprayer that gives a fine mist, and aim the initial spritzes upwards, allowing the droplets to simply fall on the scenic material. Once the area has been dampened., you can then spray the ground foam directly. The key to getting good adhesion is to ensure that the ground cover is wet right down to the bottom...otherwise, the diluted glue will not penetrate down to the base, leaving a hardened crust atop loose material.
I apply the diluted white glue using a small dropper-type bottle...
...and because of the thorough pre-wetting, the glue spreads easily through the ground foam and right down to the plaster. I prefer wet water to alcohol, as the alcohol evapourates much too quickly, an important consideration if you're doing larger areas.
I didn't take too many photos of the ground cover in the area shown, as it was intended to be fairly heavily wooded...
This barren area was intended as a pasture (the ground cover shown, foam-on-furnace-filter, was for another area) ...
...so I also added some static grass...
While the foreground area shown below is part of the pasture, the ballast was done much earlier, and because it's rather deep, a lot of glue mixture was needed to secure everything in place. As a result, a lot of it seeped out into the trackside ditches, so I added ground foam all along the verges of the ballast - why waste perfectly good glue? When the pasture grass was added later, it blended in easily with the older material...
Deep ballast, as shown here (at one end of the tall bridge in the first photo)...
...can take some time to fully harden (over a week, in this example). Deep areas of ground foam will harden a little faster, but don't disturb either until they have hardened. Then, if you don't like your first results, simply try again, right over what's already there.
Wayne
Thanks everyone for the fantastic advice. What such a great group of poeple. What about using hair spray as a ground foam adhesive?
Dr. Wayne, I sent you a msg.
I covered the beginning steps of ground foam installation in the latest installation of my layout segment build log in this section.
.
I have always used Elmers Glue in the past, but I no not like their new formula, so I am trying Mod Podge Matte for this project. So far results have been very good.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
What about hair spray over Mod Podge Matt? I wasn't sure if hair spray is the go-to option for only trees? I've used it for both but found wet-water as a stronger long-term adhesive.
kasskabooseWhat about hair spray over Mod Podge Matt
From ''my'' experence, any type of spray adhesive will only hold what it comes in contact with. Say you have a pile of dirt, and spray it with hair spray. Only the out side is glued, but useing the wet water/gluemix, it will soak ''thru'' the pile.
If you layered your landscape, and used hair spray, only the top layer will be glued. you would have to spray each layer. And I think its more costly, and messy.
kasskabooseWhat about hair spray
There are so many different kinds of hairspray.
Is there a specific brand that works good for trees? I have read about using hair spray, but do not recall a reccomendation of a good brand choice.
I don't hesitate to do a second coat of alcohol spray and dilute glue. I use a 10cc syringe, which can be found on amazon and maybe some real drug stores..
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
SeeYou190...Is there a specific brand that works good for trees? I have read about using hair spray, but do not recall a reccomendation of a good brand choice....
Kevin, while this LINK
is to a thread on background trees, there's also some tree-making using hair spray.
kasskaboose What to use to keep ground foam secure?
Adding ground foam and other types of groundcover, such as dirt, gravel, coloured grout, and, of course ballast, is usually done after colouring the base, whether it be foam, plaster cloth or, in my case, Durabond patching plaster over aluminum screen.I bought a gallon of flat interior latex house paint in a suitable shade of "dirt", but found it very difficult to paint onto the irregular surface of the plaster. I decided instead to thin the paint with tap water, then used a 2" brush to apply it more as a stain rather than as paint. It went on easily, and also soaked into the plaster (very slightly - a little chip would still show as white). This method is easier and uses less paint - after all, once the ground cover is added, as long as the original colour (white plaster or pink foam) doesn't show, the scene should look convincing.For ground cover using any of the materials mentioned, I find diluted white glue to be the best choice, at least in my experience.If an area is steeply sloped, it's sometimes necessary to use a brush to paint-on undiluted glue, and it that case, sprinkle on the ground cover, then mist the area with "wet" water - this will help the glue to wick-up into the ground cover. Let this first application fully dry, as it will then form a base onto which more material can be applied.For flatter areas, I like to apply different materials, such as real dirt, and/or coloured tile grout along with various textures and colours of ground foam. Simply add what you think will best replicate the scene you have in mind. If necessary, use a brush to tidy-up the area.
Once everything is to your satisfaction, use a good quality sprayer (it should be capable of producing a fine mist) to apply "wet water" (ordinary tap water or, if your local water is exceptionally hard, distilled water from the supermarket - with a few drops of dish detergent added) to the entire area.
Direct the initial spray upwards, letting the droplets simply fall onto the scenic material. Once everything has been dampened, you can spray directly without dislodging the ground cover. It's very important to wet the material completely through to the base onto which it's been applied.I know that many modellers prefer to use alcohol with water rather than dish detergent, but if you're doing large areas of scenery, the alcohol may evapourate more quickly than you can work applying the diluted glue, with the result that the glue will not penetrate right to the base, leaving a hardened crust of scenic material atop loose, unglued material.
Some also prefer diluted matte medium as the fixative, and while it will be comparable to the bond achieved with diluted white glue, if you decide later to change the scenery, it may be more difficult to remove.
Where scenic material is especially deep, drying times may be measured in days, and I have a few places where it was over a week.
Here's a LINK showing a partially sceniced area being removed to allow relocation of a turnout and some track, and the re-installation of new ground cover.
(The latter part of the thread deals with the construction of the building, so may not be of interest - mentioned just so you don't waste your time on it.)
doctorwayneIf an area is steeply sloped, it's sometimes necessary to use a brush to paint-on undiluted glue, and it that case, sprinkle on the ground cover, then mist the area with "wet" water - this will help the glue to wick-up into the ground cover. Let this first application fully dry, as it will then form a base onto which more material can be applied.
Wayne, I am reading this post with interest as I am about to start detailing my rough scenery. I was wondering about the steep slope issue just last night.
doctorwayneOnce everything is to your satisfaction, use a good quality sprayer (it should be capable of producing a fine mist) to apply "wet water" (ordinary tap water or, if your local water is exceptionally hard, distilled water from the supermarket - with a few drops of dish detergent added) to the entire area.
I have been experimenting this week and can recommend this sprayer from Walgreens for a very nice, fine mist, for wet water or alcohol. I had one on hand from several years ago and this week found it still available. While many might be found on the web, one can not know how it performs until trying it.
https://www.walgreens.com/store/c/nice!-on-the-move-spray-bottle-8.1-ounce/ID=prod6324215-product
On pipettes, I long ago ordered some 3mm plastic ones like the following. It seems a handy way to apply dilute glue or IPA. When using with dilute glue, they can be washed out reasonably for re-use, so 100 will last awhile. I am working out when I want to spray vs. pipette for the different steps for scenic coverings and ballast; e.g., various white glue strengths & alcohol applications.
https://www.amazon.com/G2PLUS-Disposable-Essential-Graduated-Transfer/dp/B00W4QJNYW/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=3mm+plastic+pipette&qid=1563368664&s=gateway&sr=8-4
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
Idon't got much stinkin ground cover on my SUBWAY LAYOUT. Where there is, I have never had a problem with GRAVITY!
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS