Before I moved it - all these ugly paneled walls need to go!
The sooner web browsers stop trying to "help" and just display the images as they are, the better. These are ALL right-side up viewed on my local computer. ANyway, you get the idea.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Nice! I'm looking forward to your layout construction project Randy.
A nice, clean slate to start with! Most of my ceiling is suspended ceiling, too. I love it. Easy to modify, run wiring and customize lighting. Having a good ceiling is a big plus for a layout room.
*individual images are right-side up when I click on them
Regards, Ed
Cool pics bro ....
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
Yeah they are completely rightside up until opened in a browser. Sideways in Chrome until you click on them, then they are right side up. Just because they were taken in portrait mode on a phoone doesn't mean they were meant to be sideways, stupid browsers should not alter the image as presented and just show what's there, not assume it needs to be 'fixed'
gmpullman Nice! I'm looking forward to your layout construction project Randy. A nice, clean slate to start with! Most of my ceiling is suspended ceiling, too. I love it. Easy to modify, run wiring and customize lighting. Having a good ceiling is a big plus for a layout room. *individual images are right-side up when I click on them Regards, Ed
It WILL be a clean slate, after I erase the junk that's there. The photos do not convey how damn ugly it all is, nor do they show the poor workmanship behind the walls. Notice there are lights in the ceiling - there are no clear panels for them, broken or otherwise. Just naked 2 tube fixtures. It's ALL going bye-bye. Overhead lights in the aisle areas will be LED.
I will take a sample of the color in the furnace room, visible in the distance in the one picture - as it is that perfect 50's industrial green that was in everything from schools to F unit cab interiors. Why this was used in the 1970's, I'll never know.
On the wall to the right in the first picture - that is one of those wall hanging electric fireplaces. That was the first thing that was removed. And you can see the saloon doors I literally ripped off . Notice the wall and roof things built in there, and it's all some heavy duty construction unlike the rest of the walls. Go figure. There are electric outlets up under there, I guess they had party lights strung up.
Really, photos fail to convey the horrible quality. Sure, there's a bar - the absolute worst constructed bar I have ever seen (and I've been in plenty of college frats in my day!). The opening is so small I can;t even fit behind it. Surface is the cheapest linoleum laminate you can buy. There's a sink. It has hot and cold water. BUT NO DRAIN! It just runs out on the floor! Might be ok if there was no carpet, there's probably a floor drain nearby.
Thank God they had professionals build the pool - although they had no idea how to run it, seeing as how they went through 3 pumps in 12 years, all because they ran it with the idea that you backwashed when the pressure hit 40 PSI. I doubt the pool company told them that, it's a DE filter and you backwash at 10PSI over clean pressure - clean it runs at 12-15. No wonder they kept wearing out pump motors.
Funny thing is, they didn't skimp much upstairs. The kitchen cabinates I had to have redone, they were super dark, straight out of the 70's, bt I had them refinished insteadof repalced because they are really top quality cabinets. Real wood, not a sign of particle board oor laminated materials anywhere. New ones like that would cost a fortune.
Floors are all hardwood, too. Two of the bedrooms had carpet covering it, but it's real hardwood underneath. I could probably do with replacing the windows just because of age, but at the time they were top quality double pane windows. Modern ones of similar quality will have better insulation, but also be quite costly.
But then they skimped out on the basement finishing, and on the plumbing - I know in the early 70's copper was expensive but the pipes here are small and very flexible - 1/2" fittings do work but I'd swear it's only 3/8" pipe, it's so devoid of rigidity. Ought to be 3/4" but that's a project for another time.
Randy,
Friendly plea. As a reader, it would be a HUGE help if you would break up the wall of text into small paragraphs based on different parts of the discussion. Please please. It's hard to read otherwise and just blurrs into to that wallOtext.
So.
What are the dimensions of the layout room area?
To remodel, rehab the basement should both increase the value of the home and make for a nice environment! When I built my last layout in the finished townhome basement, it was so much nicer than the unfinished NY basement or my Indiana garage. The only down side was it was a bit small and I had to duckunder to get inside.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
This is the most recent idea for fitting a layout. 1' boxes.
I got carried away on that one, usually I do stick a few breaks in there.
This one includes moving the bathroom door to about where that electric fireplace was. Staging loops in the laundry room (this only shows the lower level, layout will be double deck).
Yard along the bottom side. Plan shows rough outline of fascia - I drew most of it as line segments not free flowing curves, but the idea is to not make it square and parallel to the walls.
Empty area near where the main goes under the strias is for a short branch, probably a cement plant there. Running arounf the outside of the helix is another branch that goes over to the front door. I have another picture of a module I drew that I wanted to start sooner rather than later that replicates a real piece of the Reading, now a tourist line, that would end up behinf the left to right horizontal part of that branch.
If you could go back to the previous post and break it up, I would be greatful.
So that track plan appears to schematically point to point with a helix in the middle. Not really space for turn back lobes for turn around or continuous running?
Actually it will be a folded dogbone, with the loops being stacked above one another, double tracked all the way. I am planning a sneak cutoff at the top of the helix, so a train could run from upper staging out to the helix and then back. Perhaps a sneak track at the bottom as well.
Otherwise, leave lower staging, traverse the lower level, up the helix, traverse the upper level, around the upper loop, and repeat in reverse, so plenty of continuous running.
The loops will be in the laundry area, I have room there for at least 3 concentric tracks with the isndie one being not less than 30" radius. More of a teardrop shape, and on at least the outer two, enough room to serial stage 2 trains on each track. If I find I need more, I can run some stub tracks to the middle of the loops but that will interfere with access - with the loops open, I can just pop up in the middle and reach all tracks easily. A better idea might be to make live staging with a 'mole' if I have enough people to operate and someone wants the job. Or maybe put the dispatcher console in there and have the DS also be the mole.
deja vu anyone? It's been so long since I posted track plan ideas - but I actually drew this nearly a year ago. And several other variations over the past 5 years, the original idea had a penninsula coming off the top (back) wall, and then I was struggling to place the helix. Thise idea here was a sort of eureka moment. Yard, then town area (with some in-street trackage ala downtown Reading) and then the helix representing a bunch of the track North towards coal country, with coal country on the upper deck.
rrinkerThe photos do not convey how damn ugly it all is
You don't like rustic?
rrinker deja vu anyone? It's been so long since I posted track plan ideas - but I actually drew this nearly a year ago. And several other variations over the past 5 years, the original idea had a penninsula coming off the top (back) wall, and then I was struggling to place the helix. Thise idea here was a sort of eureka moment. Yard, then town area (with some in-street trackage ala downtown Reading) and then the helix representing a bunch of the track North towards coal country, with coal country on the upper deck.
Oh yes. I remember the thread(s) with the layout iterations. I think you've settled on a shape that maximizes your space, considering it has needs for access in several places. Good thing that the laundry room became available for layout space.
How long has it been since those threads? Three years? C'mon, get movin' man.
- Douglas
Well, the laundry area didn't become available. I was planning to use part of it all along. There will still be room for the washer and dryer even with the loops in there. ANd somehow the freezer still fits too.
Long term plan is to remodle some upstairs, I don;t need 4 bedrooms, so the idea was to turn 2 of them into a larger bedroom and a large bathroom, with the one bathroom becoming a walk-in closet. That still leaves an unused foor and enough space to make a laundry room upstairs. Doesn;t really buy me anything in the basement, as there is still a sink in the top left of the laundry room and I don't want to take thatout - perfect palce for plaster and paint mess. So I can't extend the loops all the way to the left wall.
I have also jokingly mentioned doing what Tony Koester did with his garage, only in my case it would create even more space because Tony's garage is only one car wide. That is, build a stepped wall just high nough for the hood of the car to fit under and gain a good chunk of space - something on the order of 25x13, which would be more than it sounds because the track would go on the part of the wall that extends out over the hood of the cars. SO instead of 2' wide benchwork reducing the room width, you could step all the way up to the wall on that side.
That went over like a lead balloon.
Hey Randy!
I'm looking forward to following the progress on your layout!
You have to admit though, ripping out crappy construction is very cathartic!
By the way, that is the ugliest fireplace that I have ever seen!!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
rrinker Well, the laundry area didn't become available. I was planning to use part of it all along. There will still be room for the washer and dryer even with the loops in there. ANd somehow the freezer still fits too.
Uh oh! Plans scuppered! That area is key for the track plan to work. Maybe you need to do some serious schmoozing!
Wouldn't fewer bedrooms take off value from the house for future sale?
I have also jokingly mentioned doing what Tony Koester did with his garage, only in my case it would create even more space because Tony's garage is only one car wide. That is, build a stepped wall just high nough for the hood of the car to fit under and gain a good chunk of space - something on the order of 25x13, which would be more than it sounds because the track would go on the part of the wall that extends out over the hood of the cars. SO instead of 2' wide benchwork reducing the room width, you could step all the way up to the wall on that side. That went over like a lead balloon. --Randy
Dang, sounds like the "boss" rules supreme. A 25x13 space would be very workable for an E shaped track plan - you cuold squeeze in a center lob with 30 inch curve turn back and 24" + aisle.
Nothing scuppered, the loops fit there. I had them in previous iterations of the track plan, I just didn't stick them in on this one (it's actually all just different layers of the same file - in 3rd Plan It you have multiple layers, and can restrict which ones are visible, and also restrict which ones you can draw in). I didn;t want to have to redraw everything - so the loops are there, just hidden in that view, and since when I did the main over again it's not in exactly the same place, I need to select the loop and group it as one massive object, then adjust it to line up with the main. Likewise, I use a different layer for the yard, which is not shown in this one. The branch line, the fascia outline, and the blue backdrops down the middle of the penninsula are likewise all different layers.
This house has 4 bedrooms, at 1800 square feet, I would be changing that to 3 bedrooms with one of those being a full modern master suite with the private bath, large tub, and walk in closet - net neutral I think if not an actual gain - plus the upstairs laundry.
Yeah, if that worked out at 13 feet wide, It would work to fit an E shaped section of railroad with a 30" curve, and still have 3 foot aisles in that area. SO no big yard back there where people congregate, but totally workable. Also hugely expensive to do since the walls would have to be up to fire code because of bordering the garage, so it was as much a pipe dream as anything. I should have enough to keep me busy in the space I have, considering my slow working pace. As much a pipe dream as extending the back of the hous eout by 15 feet and digging basement under it. I'd be better off cleaning up, selling, and finding a different place around the same size except with the garage alongside and not under the house, giving me the full 1800 sq ft in the basement.
hon30critter Hey Randy! I'm looking forward to following the progress on your layout! You have to admit though, ripping out crappy construction is very cathartic! By the way, that is the ugliest fireplace that I have ever seen!! Dave
Never took any pictures of it head on, but it was even uglier from the front. Yes, that is a huge 'gold' eagle attached to the upper part. And there was no attempt to hide where the air intake to draw air over the electric heating coils, under the 'firebox', was located. And the so very obvious fake plastic 'logs' - I've seen modern ones that at least TRY to look like a real fire. The guy to redid my kitchen took it, I didn't want any money for it, I just wanted it gone. Funny thing is, there is no electrical outlet on that short wall it was hung on - so what the original owners did I have no idea. Not like it faced into the room - it's facing right out the front door.
So, all of the paneling we see on the walls is all coming off? or already off. And the ceiling, is that comin down?
Judging by what I can see trying to peak up above the ceiling where that opening is for the light, it looks like there is close to a foot of space between the bottom the 1st floor joist and the drop ceiling.
Trying to piece together your first few pictures, to your track plan, to get an idea of the space, and the location of the rooms, the most logical place where a support beam would be, is from the stairs to the South wall. That would divide the area in two, with floor joist running E/W. The E. stairway wall might be a load bearing wall. Actually, both stairway walls could load bearing, if the joist run E/W, at least to the end of the stairway, where a beam would pick up the rest.
You should be able to catch a glimpse of the structural part, by getting your head, into that light opening, and looking at whats above the drop ceiling.
The height you have down there is great! This must be a big house.
I see the boiler system in the "green room". I would guess the baseboard heaters in the pictures are connected to it.
So if all of this has been torn out, any pictures of what it looks like now, using your track plan drawing as an orientation.
Mike.
My You Tube
rrinker Nothing scuppered, the loops fit there.
Nothing scuppered, the loops fit there.
But you said:
Well, the laundry area didn't become available.
So I read that the laundry area did not become available. Doesn't that mean you cannot use it for the layout? I'm confused.
So from my discussions with real estate agents in my area, the amount you can ask for a house goes up by an approximate fixed amount based on each additional bedroom and bathroom etc. So if you remodel from 4 to 3, your selling price will go down based on the conventional forumula used. Something to keep in mind.
Yeah, if that worked out at 13 feet wide, It would work to fit an E shaped section of railroad with a 30" curve, and still have 3 foot aisles in that area. SO no big yard back there where people congregate, but totally workable.[/quote]
If you could make the aisle bigger where the yard is and smaller on the other side where less people are, that might improve that design. So 42" aisle along yard and 30" aisle on other side.
Also hugely expensive to do since the walls would have to be up to fire code because of bordering the garage, so it was as much a pipe dream as anything.
A 2x4 wall would not be up to fire code? If you did it yourself, it might not be hugely expensive.
While Tony's idea to take air rights over the hood of his car may have seemed like a good one at the time, he now tells a story of how that has come to complicate his life.
When he designed the layout, he had a four-door sedan. When it came time to get a new car, he realized the height of the hood was going to be an issue, to ensure it would still fit under the layout.
Car salesmen had never seen a customer so concerned with the height of the hood just in front of the windshield before!
Eric
Eric White While Tony's idea to take air rights over the hood of his car may have seemed like a good one at the time, he now tells a story of how that has come to complicate his life. When he designed the layout, he had a four-door sedan. When it came time to get a new car, he realized the height of the hood was going to be an issue, to ensure it would still fit under the layout. Car salesmen had never seen a customer so concerned with the height of the hood just in front of the windshield before! Eric
That thought did cross my mind when I read about that garage design.
My first "large" layout was built in a 2-car garage with 16x19' L shaped dimensions. It designed it so that the wifes car could be still pulled in with the hood of the Pontiac Grande Am fitting under one side. But you could still walk inside the hollow L with the car parked there. But it was during graduate school and was built sectional and when I finished college and moved for a new job, I was able to sell the layout to recover the costs of building it and someone went away happy with a already built layout - just needed to ad scenery to his own preference.
Good point but I don; plan on getting any sort of taller car, certainly no SUV, ever, with the things would just go away except for specific use cases. Somewhat tongue in cheek, but as long as my left leg and right arm work, I will always have something manual, and generally something low and sporty like my current car. If I am unable to drive it due to age, then I probably shouldn't be driving ANYTHING - I REALLY hope someone will speak up if I do't keep to my word to turn in my keys when I feel I can no longer safely drive and gets me off the road.
Actually, if I DID do that in my garage, the stepped part would not be double decked, it would more than likely be at the heigh of the upper deck, which would clear the hood of anything but the tallest trucks and SUVs.
And I really don't even have to worry about it - my "2 car" garage is actually deep enough that I can get two cars in, one behnd the other, so even if I walled it off 13 feet fromt he back wall, I could still get two cars in side by side without having to worry about having a stepped wall, it could just be straight. The step would be useful to have storgae space and a place to stach the power equipment withotu interfering with car parking.
I typically have 3 cars in the garage in the winter, my car goes all the way front, as it is really not suitable to drive on snowy roads, and I try to keep the road salt off of it. I don't want to have to clean of fmy truck all the time, but it fits in the garage behind my car. Tight squeeze, so I use a scrap of extruded foam leaning against my car as a bump stop just in case.
If I didn't have any tools, and no lawn mower or snowblower, I could actually get 4 cars in my garage. Only really need to keep 2 vehicles inside, hence the idea to reclaim some of the space for more trains.