There was another recent Woodland Scenics hydrocal thread. I'm not going to look for it. The OP was disappointed with the WS brand. There are multiple Hydrocal concoctions and USG is pretty fuzzy about the distinctions. They don't even offer a uniform set of comparisons between the different versions.
If the MSDS is so important, what are my risks working with it?
edit There is an SDS
OSHA says the SDS is a specified format of the MSDS to provide guidance to help workers who handle hazardous chemicals to become familiar with the format and understand the contents of the SDSs.
If I'm messing with a 50# bag, I'm a worker, even if no one is paying me.
WS doesn't make their own, they buy it, somebody packages it, where and how long it sits in the WS warehouse is unknown. While it looks real convenient to buy a cereal size box of WS hydrocal, I'm afraid to try it and not because of the SDS
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Lastspikemike richhotrain Lastspikemike Well at the risk of provoking you I advise that you are very wrong there. Dangerously wrong. Utterly, completely 100% wrong. The very first thing you should check is the SDS (MSDS in Canada ) and it is intended for the uneducated as well as the professional. Actually, you are mistaken. OSHA makes it clear that an SDS "is not primarily intended for use by the general consumer, focusing instead on the hazards of working with the material in an occupational setting". The general consumer may rely on the packaging itself regarding directions for use. Rich Actually, I am not mistaken. I know exactly what I'm talking about. It is within my area of legal expertise. You think I said something I did not say. I was very exact in what I wrote. On American websites (including the US Gypsum) their .pdf material data safety sheets are named SDS on the link so I repeated that acronym for clarity. In Canada these sheets are always labelled MSDS or should be. I am not expert in any American law and do not pretend to be. I am expert in Canadian law, particularly industrial safety. These sheets are intended for the safety of the ordinary working person and are required to be functional for that. Ergo, they are also suitable for use by any consumer. If you don't already know what's in it, read the MSDS if you can locate it.
richhotrain Lastspikemike Well at the risk of provoking you I advise that you are very wrong there. Dangerously wrong. Utterly, completely 100% wrong. The very first thing you should check is the SDS (MSDS in Canada ) and it is intended for the uneducated as well as the professional. Actually, you are mistaken. OSHA makes it clear that an SDS "is not primarily intended for use by the general consumer, focusing instead on the hazards of working with the material in an occupational setting". The general consumer may rely on the packaging itself regarding directions for use. Rich
Lastspikemike Well at the risk of provoking you I advise that you are very wrong there. Dangerously wrong. Utterly, completely 100% wrong. The very first thing you should check is the SDS (MSDS in Canada ) and it is intended for the uneducated as well as the professional.
Well at the risk of provoking you I advise that you are very wrong there. Dangerously wrong. Utterly, completely 100% wrong.
The very first thing you should check is the SDS (MSDS in Canada ) and it is intended for the uneducated as well as the professional.
Actually, you are mistaken. OSHA makes it clear that an SDS "is not primarily intended for use by the general consumer, focusing instead on the hazards of working with the material in an occupational setting".
The general consumer may rely on the packaging itself regarding directions for use.
Rich
Actually, I am not mistaken. I know exactly what I'm talking about. It is within my area of legal expertise. You think I said something I did not say. I was very exact in what I wrote.
On American websites (including the US Gypsum) their .pdf material data safety sheets are named SDS on the link so I repeated that acronym for clarity. In Canada these sheets are always labelled MSDS or should be. I am not expert in any American law and do not pretend to be. I am expert in Canadian law, particularly industrial safety.
These sheets are intended for the safety of the ordinary working person and are required to be functional for that.
Ergo, they are also suitable for use by any consumer.
If you don't already know what's in it, read the MSDS if you can locate it.
Alton Junction
riogrande5761 Lastspikemike Always read the MSDS (SDS in the US.)
Lastspikemike Always read the MSDS (SDS in the US.)
I said it before and I'll say it again
I had an ex-wife once that was one of those know-it-all offensive people. After that I never had time for people like that anymore
A good friend of mine when I was young and still is my friend has a saying that I live by to this day. "Ignore a fool and he shall leave"
The bullheads still bite if you feed them
TF
I was going to go into a couple of the remarkably fact-free 'fact' explanations in this interesting post, but little will be gained thereby. I would only note that some of this might be highly surprising to your father; you certainly didn't get it from him.
Technically the addition of "dolomitic hydroxide" (which is just an admixture of slaked lime with slaked magnesium oxide) would be less exothermic on further hydration than the likely equivalent for Hydrocal itself (which I think would use the high-early constituent of cement, tricalcium silicate). Someone with the time and interest could graph the exotherms of these, but I suspect even with the tiny percentage of cement in Hydrocal compared to the (likely) percentage of hydroxides in the finishing plaster, the difference won't be that great. (We could also pH-test for potential causticity, as any hydroxide-producing admixture will be alkaline/basic, and the potential unslaked MgO in dolomitic hydroxide as commercially made might reach measurable percentage)
Why the addition of 'dolomitic hydroxide' is "not what an intended hobby use requires" when the more active chemical constituent of it, slaked lime, is an active principle in Hydrocal, is interesting to consider, as is the inherent claim that straight plaster is preferable to Hydrocal for thin-shell scenery making.
Overmod I was going to go into a couple of the remarkably fact-free 'fact' explanations in this interesting post, but little will be gained thereby. I would only note that some of this might be highly surprising to your father; you certainly didn't get it from him.
Regarding SDS, he says that, and I quote, "it is intended for the uneducated as well as the professional". I repeatedly point out that OSHA says, and I quote, "is not primarily intended for use by the general consumer, focusing instead on the hazards of working with the material in an occupational setting". To which LSM raises the straw man issue when there is no room for a straw man in those statements.
Others say to ignore LSM, but I continue to hope for his redemption and conversion. But, I am beginning to lose all hope, save for a miracle.
Good lord!
Every thread gets wrung dry. Every one.
selectorGood lord! Every thread gets wrung dry. Every one.
I know, and I am sorry.
I responded to this thread with a question about whether or not "finishing plaster" was suitable for use in building terrain on a model train layout.
I was hoping for some real world experience and the sharing of knowledge learned through that experience.
Down here in South Florida, a lot of building supplies that are easy to obtain elsewhere are hard to come by. I was hoping this was a suitable substitute for hydrocal.
Instead, Spike decided to pontificate from his holographic soapbox about all things that have nothing to do with model railroading. It has been suggested that I ignorant, arrogant, and uneducated. I certainly did not deserve these insults.
I had no idea that my query would result in such ugliness, but unfortunately the outcome has become almost predictable with the recent conversational trends where mean spirited spite has become typical.
Like I said, I will post the same question again at a later date after the disturbance in the force has drifted away.
Until then...
SeeYou190 Like I said, I will post the same question again at a later date after the disturbance in the force has drifted away. Until then...
Kevin I don't know if you're aware of it but I answered your question in quite a bit of detail and provided some good information for you.
It was right after all the chaos and you became upset and I'd have to say I didn't blame you a bit.
Anyway my reply to you is back there and you may have missed it
Track fiddler SeeYou190 Like I said, I will post the same question again at a later date after the disturbance in the force has drifted away. Until then... Kevin I don't know if you're aware of it but I answered your question in quite a bit of detail and provided some good information for you. It was right after all the chaos and you became upset and I'd have to say I didn't blame you a bit. Anyway my reply to you is back there and you may have missed it TF
Yes, I did miss it.
Thank you for your response, and all the work you put into the images. That answered a lot of what I wanted to know.
Thanks Rich, Thanks Kevin
Always a pleasure to provide information I know. As I appreciate information shared with me that I don't know. I think that's what it's all about here