I have built my helix structure external to my train shed,...
I am now cutting the holes in the back wall of the shed that will allow the trains to communicate between the inside layout and that external helix.
It's beginning to look like 'swiss cheese', and I have yet to cut more for the upper deck track....ha...ha.
I have several dilemmas facing me. Naturally I want to place an outer barrier 'tube' of some sort in the most immediate opening thru the wall thickness itself. I'll come up with a nice plastic PVC tube, rain spout material that measures out at 3” wide, by 4.25” deep,...just about correct for a single line HO train to pass through. It even works nicely in that bottom left corner where I have two single lines passing thru the wall parallel to one another, (and in several other locations)...
On the inside I would imagine these 'tunnels' will end up relatively flush with the interior wall surface. But on the outside I am thinking these tubular tunnels could be extended by as much as 3 feet to meet the roadbed of the helix,...in lieu of flat plywood roadbed with no side protections.
This presents the fact that the trains will be traveling thru these plastic tunnels for some distance, and what happens if a derailment occurs? (BTW this tunnel tube was just laid in there for image purposes, it is not correctly located, nor cut at this point).
My thoughts at the moment are that the track that is laid down in each of these tubes would be done so with very special care as to 'flatness' and non-movement. Plus there would be a rerailer installed at either end of these straight sections to further insure that the trains will not derail inside the tube?
Opinions,...thoughts??
Brian
My Layout Plan
Interesting new Plan Consideration
Access?
You ARE going to have easy access to that area AND access to the INSIDE of the helix once completed, correct? If NOT, then I see the potential here for a layout-killing feature: The HF (Hassle Factor) is going to way exceed the FF (Fun Factor) in pretty short order once operational. You will HAVE to have access to all track points IF this layout is envisioned to have a long life span for there WILL be maintenance and other issues to attend to over time on any given section of track. It simply happens in spite of the best designs and intentions. Andre
If NOT, then I see the potential here for a layout-killing feature: The HF (Hassle Factor) is going to way exceed the FF (Fun Factor) in pretty short order once operational. You will HAVE to have access to all track points IF this layout is envisioned to have a long life span for there WILL be maintenance and other issues to attend to over time on any given section of track. It simply happens in spite of the best designs and intentions.
Andre
NO tunnels! Avoid these tunnels, you could try everything you want, sure there is the place where problems will occurs for sure. I would prefer the old fashionned plywood with safe side glued or nailed on it; which prevent any trains to fall down but allow you easy access to your trains.Marc
Avoid these tunnels, you could try everything you want, sure there is the place where problems will occurs for sure.
I would prefer the old fashionned plywood with safe side glued or nailed on it; which prevent any trains to fall down but allow you easy access to your trains.Marc
So maybe I should really look at doing it similar to the manner I did the helix-to-shed connection for the staging level,....
Wood Roadbed Tue, 2018-08-21 09:05 — railandsail Yesterday I cut the entrance hole to the shed a bit wider, then cut out my wood roadbed piece (Its hidden under the paper pattern). I also cut out a square hole for the two Peco under-switch machines/controls to be housed in (not shown yet)
Yesterday I cut the entrance hole to the shed a bit wider, then cut out my wood roadbed piece (Its hidden under the paper pattern). I also cut out a square hole for the two Peco under-switch machines/controls to be housed in (not shown yet)
I'll have to give this new consideration, as the tunnel idea even gives me pause.
Access to the Bridging Tracks between Helix and Train Shed
I will have relatively good access to most portions on that helix, ...plenty of room up inside the 6 foot diameter . And I will have good access to those bridging tracks on that side of the helix with the staging track bridge,...where the 3 way turnout into staging tracks is located (that side skin of the 'helix box' is removable, and will also have a 'door' opening.
The one area that is questionable for access is that far side that feeds tracks to left wall side of the shed,...both on the lower level deck and the upper level deck. Those bridging tracks are 'outside' of the helix circle, thus not easily accessed from inside the helix circle. Plus that side of the 'helix box enclosure is up against the side of the trailer home. That makes them almost inaccessible from the 'outside'. Those are the tracks that concern me.
Idea? Alum Channel
Perhaps I need to find some alum channel like these I was considering for my doorway access. It just needs to be 3" wide rather than this 4" wide to fit my helix track spacing and the holes I have already cut into my shed's wall.
Why would I be looking at metal channel rather than plywood? Because there are some locations within the helix where the inner loop track passes over the outer loop and this may call for a 'thinner roadbed'. Metal would be stiffer in a 3-4 foot length than plywood.
Have to make another trip to the stores or my metal scrap yard
What about steel studs they are cheap? Or cut your downspout material lengthwise to open them up.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
I'd stick with aluminum channel. Those downspouts are super rigid to begin with, and cutting them in half to make 2 U shaped pieces, they will probbaly be floppy as all get out. Steel studs too - they work great when used as studs, secured top and bottom, with drywall screwed to them. Or when used like a wall laid on its side, with foam or plywood, to make a layout base - basically a complete structure, the individual components are not particularly rigid, but assembled into a complete structure, the structure is nice and solid.
ABsolutely NO to anything fully enclosed that you can't easily reach into. If you need a short, say 6" section fully encloosed to bridge the gap between the helix house and shed, that wouldn;t be bad. That's not much more than a car length for a shorter car, and if you cna reach a few inched in from either side, you can reach anythign that might get stuck in there. But several feet of that - no way, you WILL regret it when a piece of rolling stock gets skewed and jammed against the sides and you can't reach in to it.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Square Tubing Bridges
Originally when I found the PVC rain pipes I found that their 3” width worked out well for my desired center-to-center distance of the tracks exiting the helix. So I was pleased that the replacement 'alum channel bridges' of 3” width would also maintain this same separation.
I have 3 situations where I need this 3” center-to-center distance between the parallel bridges,.. 1) on the right hand side where the two mainlines rise up 4” to enter/exit the helix
2) on the left hand side where I have 2 parallel tracks enter/exiting at both the lower level and upper level decks.
At both of those deck levels on the left hand side, 3 out of the 4 tracks must drop down from flat level by 1/2” by the time they reach the back wall,... a) the staging access track at the lower level, b) both tracks on the upper level. These alum bridges will allow for this by providing a nice gentle sloping 'flat surface' for the track all the way from the helix circumference to the deck plywood inside.
I was having some concerns about those 2 tracks at the upper deck level,...because I wanted to locate a modified double-cross over arrangement there.
So I did a little mock up using 3 med radius Pecos and 1 dbl-curve Peco. Since I had not yet sliced the 3” box beams in half, I used some other slightly wider width alum channels I had for this image. But the basic idea is there.
The 2 box beams are on the left, ...and when cut down will provide 2 channels like those shown on the right. The upright 'web' between the two channels will be shaved down where needed for the 'crossover track piece'.
That long piece of box tube has been cut into 4 long pieces that will be utilized on the top and main deck over on the left hand side of the shed. These will support parallel tracks from within the inside of the shed out to the perimeter of the helix.
I might have already begun that installation BUT our weather here in FL has been rather CHILLY (almost cold), and so I have left those holes that need more trimming, closed up for a few days.
Meantime I have been working on the frame work for my lifting bridges bat the entrance to the shed. Turns out it is going to be much less of a project than I originally anticipated,...on another subject thread.
As can be seen I have come up with another type of alum extrusion from my trusty old metal scrape yard. This one is 6" wide.
Now I have to glue that track to the alum.
Glue Atlas Track to Alum Roadbed, plastic to metal
I'm building my 'connection bridges' between my indoor layout to my exterior helix structure with aluminum channels. I need to glue the atlas track to the aluminum surface of those channels.
I have 2 situations: a) direct attachment of the atlas plastic ties to the alum surface (no room for any type of roadbed under track)
b) some 'bridges' will allow clearance for a roadbed. I've considered a 1/8 cork, ...but having some doubts about its moisture absorbing possibilities?
Suggestions for glue,...or even hot-melt adhesive?
I would use this, or something close to it:
https://tinyurl.com/y5xm226s
Years ago I set up a "temporary" test track in my shop. About twenty feet long, Atlas flex track. I stuck it to shelving with double-sided tape that was like carpet tape or actually two-sided duct tape. My test track hasn't budged.
https://www.duckbrand.com/products/duck-tape/specialty-duck-tape/white-141-in-x-12-yd
Foam mounting tape would be OK, too, but it has a slight thickness to it so you would have to run a continuous length of it.
There was an outfit that made track roadbed that was sticky-black stuff*. I belonged to a club that used it and it was awful. It refused to stick in most places and refused to come UNstuck in others.
*I remember now, AMI Instant Roadbed
Good Luck, Ed
Ed, I know some of those double-back tapes can be extremely adhesive, but what bothers me about using them is they would leave a sticky side up under track I will NOT be ballasting,...and that would attract a lot of dirt/debris over time.
Had this suggested on another forum,...
I first thought of Silicone, but remembered a product that I just used on my RV. It's called "Through the Roof". It is made by SASHCO - this came from ACE hardware ... $7.95in a tube. It's a clear product, it will stick to anything, and any type of weather will not affect it minus 25 to plus 180 degrees.https://youtu.be/NQoTrE-_U00
I just used latex caulk to hold the track to both the steel stud and the cement roadbed for the stretch over the fireplace. It is still solid after ten years.
Had another gentleman suggest latex caulk
I used DAP Alex Plus Acrylic Caulking to lay all my track. I also used it to secure my Sheet Metal backdrop corners to painted drywall. 3+ years and still solid. I would suggest that this product will work great for securing track to your aluminum pieces too. A thin layer is all you need. It gives a reasonable working time and is easy to remove with a putty knife later.Bill
I used DAP Alex Plus Acrylic Caulking to lay all my track.
I also used it to secure my Sheet Metal backdrop corners to painted drywall.
3+ years and still solid. I would suggest that this product will work great for securing track to your aluminum pieces too. A thin layer is all you need. It gives a reasonable working time and is easy to remove with a putty knife later.Bill
BTW I experimented with some hot melt glue and it did NOT like to stick well to the unpainted alum, nor to the prepainted/coated alum.
I'd go with the latex caulk. It's used to caulk the doors, windows, corners, etc., on the exterior of homes, and mobile homes with steel and vinyl siding, I'm sure it will secure the track.
Just make sure the metal is really clean.
Mike.
My You Tube
I just thought of this. This may work if you have the height if there's a cover going over this, which I thought I saw in one photo. Put down a 1/16" sheet of cork on the bottom of the base, then you can glue the track to the cork.
Neal
Adhesive Caulk
I ran the DAP idea by my general contractor friend here in town, and he offered what he considers one better caulk,....Loctite Polyseamseal Adhesive Caulk http://www.loctiteproducts.com/p/pss_seal_ap/overview/Loctite-Polyseamseal-All-Purpose-Adhesive-Caulk.htm
...and I like the idea that it is water clean up
nealknows I just thought of this. This may work if you have the height if there's a cover going over this, which I thought I saw in one photo. Put down a 1/16" sheet of cork on the bottom of the base, then you can glue the track to the cork. Neal
I was thinking of that cork idea, and I found some 1/8' cork at Hobby Lobby, but no 1/16". I was also just a bit concerned about using 'absorbent' cork in this semi-outdoor enviroment (non-climatized).
What I've come up with now is a vinyl baseboard material that I will likely glue on with Locktite polyseamseal adhesive caulk,...both the vinyl to the alum bridge, and the track to the vinyl.
Thank you fellows for convincing me to move away from that plastic tube idea I was entertaining.
I next went to that 3" square alum tube that I sliced in half lengthwise to produce 3" channels. These are fine for those 'bridges' that only need to be straight track segments.
But there are a few that need to support curved sections of track. I was thinking of cutting multiple short cuts in their sides that would allow them to bend in a curve. Then I paid another visit to my trusty old metal scrap yard and found some 6" alum channel material. So now my helix bridges are going to be a combination of these 2 type alum channels.
So here is a photo of that 6" wide channel material I found (I believe it is also an extrusion that is utilized in the 'screening' industry). The photo shows a stock piece on the right, and a segmented piece I built on the left,...for one of those curved track segments I mentioned needing above.
That segmented channel above is needed for this very upper loop of helix track that snakes between those upright post of the helix circle to enter back into the layout room.
The two tracks under that wider bridge channel on the top are actually two side-by-side 3" channels (one of them carrying that auto-max cars). Those two 3" channels will mate with a single 6" channel once inside the shed. That 6" wide channel will be a 'singular foundation' for the double crossover arrangement just inside,....originally conceptualized here,..
Building a metal 'christmas tree' in my helix...ha...ha
I continue to tweak my bridges between the interior layout and the exterior helix. I began to inspect one particular vertical tube that supported at least 3 of the connecting bridges. What modifications could I make that would improve the situations??
My thoughts were if I could cut/trim a notch in that vertical tube in such a manner as to allow the track a bit less curve while negotiating around the tube it would all be beneficial. Rather than cut/trim that tube, how about a combination of L brackets that might provide the 'notch' in the vertical tube? I played around with a number of combinations of configurations utilizing any number of 4, 5, & 6” L brackets. It became a real jig-saw puzzle. I was getting confused with my multiple combinations. I was just about ready to make one particular combination the defining one, when I decided to give it one more inspection.
(didn't take photos of those 'experiments')
On my final inspection I noticed that I had NOT taken into consideration re-bolting the upper and lower connections of the tube itself (stupid me),...bolt that vertical tube to the outside of its support ring, rather than the inside. Then make a pair of those L brackets (actually 2 pair now) the intervening members of the 'continuous' vertical tube.
RESULTS: I have effectively moved that vertical support tube outboard enough to make both the double curves feed the dbl-track helix tracks more gentle in curvature. The single track that branches off one of the helix loop tracks that feeds the center peninsula is more gentle in curvature. The very upper helix loop track is also more gentle.
PLUS, I have discovered a way to make a new bridge structure for the 3-turnout feeding the lower staging area, out of that 6” wide alum material. It will also snake around this latest vertical tube in a more effective manner. I'm building that today.
railandsail PLUS, I have discovered a way to make a new bridge structure for the 3-turnout feeding the lower staging area, out of that 6” wide alum material. It will also snake around this latest vertical tube in a more effective manner. I'm building that today.
I was just looking back at the 'evolution' of this particular bridge.
It started out with these images,..
Then went to this plywood version,..
And now it is built of 2 different sections of alum channel,
This bridge deck is now much improved in stiffness and weatherability over the wooden one, and it has guard rails on each side. It also is a much thinner design that makes the underdeck control motors more accessible.
I'm happy with the way this has turned out.
Looks good Brian,
Definitely different though.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Back a page ago I posted,...
Building a metal 'christmas tree' in my helix...ha...ha I continue to tweak my bridges between the interior layout and the exterior helix. I began to inspect one particular vertical tube that supported at least 3 of the connecting bridges. What modifications could I make that would improve the situations??
I've since made a few other little changes to what I refer to as my metal christmas tree, just trying to 'fine tune' these junctions to the helix curves so as to foolproof them as much as possible. I figure the time to 'get it right' is while I have this greater access prior to installing the circular roadbed and tracks.
latest, larger L- brackets
Special Bracket
The helix track serving the subterranean staging areas is the larger circle in the helix. There is also a level circular loop of track that begins on that same level, that is inboard of the staging track. The L-brackets that support that diving staging feeder track can not be used to support the level loop of track, so I had to come up with something that would attach to the vertical sidewall post and hold up the inner level loop of track.
At first I thought I might have to affix something to the 'floor piece' of plywood I eventually plan on putting in the helix structure. But the I arrived at a different type of support fixture that would attach to those vertical post and support BOTH the inner and outer tracks,...those white rectangular cutouts glued in place in the photos,...