This was going to be a Marklin layout, but I started researching the Lake State Railway, along with scheduing one of my brass GP40's to be painted into thier newest scheme. And I am starting to think this might be a nice shortline to model in current time. While thier usual power seems to be thier SD40's(rebuilt to -2's), I will have to stick to thier GP40-3's and eventally I will get a MP15AC as well. The benchwork is 8' across, 4 foot deep on one side and 6 foot on the right side, but the middle is narrowier than 4 foot to allow me access to the shelves on the wall and access to the track at the rear of the table. There is no access from either side and an "around the room" set up isnt an option. Looking for help with track plan and industry selection, both being very weak points for me in the hobby. Fine tuning and rebuilding old brass diesels, I'm your guy, but when it comes to track, scenery and fitting in industries to service not so much. Thanks Mike
Silly NT's, I have Asperger's Syndrome
I'd put a loop of track over on the left. Then I'd put a wye off of it headed to the right. On the far right I'd put a yard. In between I'd have a bit of running and some industries.
The loop is there because it fits and it's nice to be able to watch a train go while yer sippin' a beverage. The wye is so that you can turn trains, if you want, and go this way and that. The yard is so you have a yard. Same for the rest. The loop might look better if you don't see it all--bury part of it. If you do that, you could have a mine or logging on top of it. Then you'd need a ramped track to get up there.
What all of the above creates is a branch to a small town that connects to a main line, passing through. Not bad.
That's what I've got, anyway.
One thing to do is to make a list of what you absolutely HAVE to have. If you need a small river and a bridge over it, write it down. If you hanker for a turntable, the same. Etc. You MAY write down more than will fit nicely; but still, it's a useful list to ponder.
Ed
I should have put this will be in HO scale, not N. N is to small for me to deal with(I have tried). I set up my 4 axle power to handle 15" radius curves without any problems, so they will handle tight radius just fine. I try to keep freight cars to 50' lengths when possible. so careful choice of industries is imporant. Scrap metal, wood products, grain, chemical products and stone.
I assumed HO, because, well........
Anyway, I can't judge dimensions real well on these photos. I sorta thought the section on the left, where I want the loop, might be about 4' x 6'.
It's obvious that this isn't going to be a giant layout.
I suggest you post some of the major dimensions. Like how big my 4x6 really is, and how long the sides against the walls are, and how deep things are at various places. Can't hurt.
Ed the return baloons on each side will just fit a 15" circle of Atlas snap track, depth is 4 foot on the left and right, the extension on the right side is for industry or engine facalities and not the main loop. The table is 8 foot across. The table top was designed for Marklin track which easilly negotiates these tight dimensions, even with a 2-10-0 class 44 Decapod. Its not for certain that I will shelf the Marklin plan(got quite a bit set back under the table for it so far), below the big layout is a small 55" by 33" portable layout that I run my Eel River shortline trains on and I can can also run the LSRR stuff on as well. The curvature is so tight on the big layout that it might be best to stick with the original plan. And just enjoy the shortline stuff on my micro layout for now. Here are a couple pics with some of the Marklin stuff set up.
Here is the plan someone over on the Marklin forum came up with that fits my ore train theme. The train, the Langer Heinrich(long henry) ran from the port city of Emden down to the steel mills of Germany along the Rhine River. Loads to the mill, empties back to port.
Yikes. That's small.
What about still trying my idea. You've got a teeny little loop over on the left, in a space about 3' x 4'. Put in the wye, which will take some pretty clever track installing, I think. Then put something over on the right to switch.
You can also think about what kind of a railroad you want. I know you mentioned one, but that one is kind of, well, biggish. Consider also something in logging, or perhaps a waterfront. The kind where Docksides used to live.
Doing the Marklin layout isn't my style, but if it works for you, it could be fun.
I thought about LSRR's lake front switching. Which tends to utilize the 4 axle units more than the big 6 axle units from videos I have seen. Yes the space is quite small.
A waterwing shape like that, in a 4x8 space with a chunk taken out of the middle, usually works with 18" radius. One of the Atlas track plan books has one for that sort of space. I would really try to use 18" radius and not 15" if at all possible.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I wish 18 would fit, but the wings are only 32 inches across
That's pushing it even for 15" radius - the track radius is the radius of the centerline. To allow clearance along the wall side, that would put the track right at the very edge of the inside part.
Perhaps a switching layout, no continuous run..
Mike,
why did you give up on mpdelling the "Langer Heinrich" coal train theme? Here is how I remember these trains:
Any radius below 18" means asking for trouble, unless you convert your cars to having the couplers truck mounted.
Stay with the Marklin stuff - or build a new baseboard!
Happy times!
Ulrich (aka The Tin Man)
"You´re never too old for a happy childhood!"
Just exploring options while I have nothing else I can do. I havent given up, if I had the Langer Heinrich set would be for sale
I would also be concerned that the track plan shows not just tight curves - around 14-15"R - but two pretty nasty S-curves where the 24077 track sections are. For US-prototype HO, I think you'd have to go to some sort of switching layout without a continous run. Even equipment that could handle the super-sharp 15" radius curves might have trouble on the S-curves. I know Marklin has made some US equipment, you might be able to run them on this trackplan?
p.s. When you sampled N-scale, did you try out using Kato Unitrack? It's a lot easier to work with than flextrack, and very reliable. In N-scale, 14"R curves would let you run whatever you want.
Benchwork before track plan is sort of cart before the horse when it comes to layout design-build. Best thing to do is design the track plan to fit a space and then design the benchwork to fit the track plan. Otherwise you got a kind of straight jacket.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Helping a friend design a layout, they did the same thing, started building benchwork first. They will have to take some of it apart and rebuild.
Well, John Allen did his scenery before laying track... not something I would do but you can always rebuild something if it doesn't fit. I strongly recommend that you find a plan with 18'' radius curves. I use 22'', and it is tight for steam engines with 8 wheel drivers. Maybe you can experiment with old brass sectional track (you don't need more than a circle for design purposes). If there is a club in your vicinity, maybe you can borrow some. Our club has tons from the donations we get from time to time... You might have to fill some of the open space in the middle to make things fit, but that is not really hard to do.
Good luck!
Simon
Hello all,
riogrande5761Benchwork before track plan is sort of cart before the horse when it comes to layout design-build. Best thing to do is design the track plan to fit a space and then design the benchwork to fit the track plan. Otherwise you got a kind of straight jacket.
Yeah, my thought too...
But then, John Allen wrote,
"A model railroad should probably start with a concept. Why? Because much knowledge about railraoding, experience in model railroading, and thought are required before a proper concept for a model railroad can be formed. These requirements are seldom possible on a first pike. Mine was no exception."- -John Allen; Gorre & Daphetid Railroad.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
Dragging my own post back from the dead. The benchwork was prexhisting, trying to not have to rebuild it. The tighter radius Marklin C track fits it fine and all their engines go around it ok as well. Here is a prospective track plan that fits the table space. The ore docks with false front buildings and scenery block on the left side, and the right side has the engine ready tracks and more industrail scenes.
May i suggest a lift out bridge accross the gap. That would allow the curves to be broader and ooen many new configuration. Also a possible crossover at the narrow point to lesson the curves that make up that S curves.
shane
A pessimist sees a dark tunnel
An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel
A realist sees a frieght train
An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space
Will never work, have you tried to run the 2-10-0 with 50' cars on 15" radius?
It works, with Marklin systems, have done it before. The model Decapods are a give point/hinge in the frame much like the real ones do, to allow them to get thru tighter radius curves. The DB Decapods are also smaller overall than a typical one in the USA such as the PRR I1sa which were massive. Most cars for era 3 and early era 4 on the DB are also shorter, ie not 50' but more like 40" for the ore hoppers and even shorter for the 2 axle freight wagons.
The radii are tight but if it works with what you're running, it works, and that's what matters. Just make sure all your rolling stock can go around forwards, backwards-- backing whole trains through those S curves might be a good test.
Is there a way to complete the crossover in the back with a link in the top right, so you can reverse trains in both directions? Right now you can reverse through the left wing, but not the right (i.e. as it stands, if you're traveling counterclockwise around the layout, you'd have to back through to reverse direction.) That might provide some more flexibility, and it would also give you another runaround closer to the industry spurs.
Phil
Marklin is a whole different world in HO. Couplers are mostly truck mounted and are of the hook/loop style, flanges are deeper and curves are tighter as most European homes are smaller than the average home in the USA. Power pickup is "3 rail AC" but the 3rd rail is nearly invisable as its just tiny studs that stick up in the middle of the cross ties. What one gives up with those deep flanges, is gained in very good tracking and less derailments dealing with tight curves. Frogs on turnouts are steel and powered as both outer rails are the ground side of the power source. The studs or overhead catenary being the hot side. Once my track arrives and everything is built and operational. I can fine tune things a bit before I start scenery work. I have to order the track, it not something that can be sourced locally or from most any hobby shop. So planning is needed so as not to buy expensive track that I cannot use. Pics and video once things are up and running
Hello All,
emdmikeMarklin is a whole different world in HO.
Yes, I agree.
Are you running Märklin three rail or Trix two rail?
You mentioned "C" track which is the Trix two-rail system.
Please understand you are making inquiries on a North American forum about a European system and expecting solutions that are not common to North American modelers.
I suggest you pose your questions to a Trix friendly forum.
Translations are available from German to English on the Märklin/Trix forums.
If you are choosing a European system over a North American system to be unique you will have to search out solutions from those unique sources.
Its Marklin 3 rail(stud contact), the C track is basicly the same between the Trix and the Marklin line, just one has studs down the middle and one does not. I wanted to show what can be done here(I am in the USA btw) with Marklin in HO. European modeling(Marklin does do some USA stuff as well), it a neat and interesting facet of HO scale. I know when I used to exhibit a small Marklin HO layout at shows, despite its small size, got more attention from show attendees than the later HO layouts. European trains, running on functional catenery, really drew folks in and over the years, I had a few decide to model European trains using Marklin products as a new challenge. Mike