I am an aging model railroader. No surprise when you go to NMRA and club meetings or layout open houses and look around; the vast majority in this community are. I am in the process of designing a layout, that I would like to enjoy for as many years as is possible. The question is: Can I make a layout that will adapt to my changing physical abilities? Is there a way to lower a large layout when I can no longer stand for long periods of time? Some of the rest of you must have made accomodations in layout design and construction; what were your challenges and how did you resolve them?
There is no easy way to raise or lower a large layout which has several legs because the changing of the height would damage the scenery and track. If the entire layout is small enough to be raised and lowered with a pulley system then you could do it however those type layouts are usually no larger than 4x8 feet. If you are planning to build a large layout and think that in the future you might want be in a wheel chair then you should consider building it at a level that would accommodate one and until then use an office chair with wheels to move around. Some people who build double decker layouts use office chairs to operate the lower level so they can move around with their train by simply rolling the chair around while they are seated in it.
Some other ideas:
Build it in sections or modules. Even if it's not goign to be a permanent layout. That way, you cna work on one section at a time at a workbench, and even flip it upside down to access the wiring underneath.
As stated, lowering a large layout is no easy task - just build it low, and operate from rollign office chairs. But if you take the modular approach, you can build a carousel stand that will hold the module at any desired hight and allow you to spin it over to access the bottom. Because workign on a low layout while standing will definitely give you back trouble, working hunched over all the time. By using the modles, you can work, while you are able, from a comfortable standing position with the layout sections at the right height, but then the layout will have them at the lower height where seated in a regular chair or, if it eventually comes to it, in a wheelchair, will work - best of both worlds.
Remember to leave very wide aisles - it takes a lot more room to maneuver a wheelchair than it does a standing person. ADA says 36" for a 'hallway' and 48" for both a wheelchair and an ambulatory person to pass. The extra width will be nice even while you are able to get around walking, unless you are one of those perpetually skinny guys.
If this is in a basement - are the stairs wide enough to install a chair lift, to get you up and down if you can;t walk the stairs? Not necessarily something that takes the whole wheelchair, you can easily have a second chair for upstairs, as long as you are able to transfer from the wheelchair to the stair lift and back to a wheelchair. Same goes if the layout is upstairs from the main living area or in an attic space, just in reverse.
I'm approaching a need for knee repalcement. I was worried about how I can get in my house until fully recovered - I have a single story house with a basement, but it's a raised ranch style, so I have one flight up steps to go up to get in from the garage, either exterior or interior. But then I don't really need to do that - I can drive up the side lawn and then walk across the relatively flat back yard and go in the back door, just one small step up.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Depending on your space; perhaps a around the room shelf. That would give plenty of space to move a wheelchair,[if things got that far]. Keeping the width to 18in or so for easy reach.As stated,your gonna have to think about height. Its simple enought to cut off the legs,but on anything more then 8ft or so, there will be extra work. But it could be done.
ironically, setting the layout height high makes it easier to work on in that you can sit on a chair with wheels when working under it.
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
gregc ironically, setting the layout height high makes it easier to work on in that you can sit on a chair with wheels when working under it.
I never understood that thinking.
I spent far,far,less time under the layout then above it. I would think that having the top at a comfortable height is more important then being able to sit under it
if you're older and have back or other issues, being able to work under the layout, if there's a lot of work to be done, in order to complete the layout becomes significant.
it's a lot easier to build a platform to step on to do work on the topside of the layout
GN goat kidIs there a way to lower a large layout when I can no longer stand for long periods of time?
Paying for that system might be another story, however...
Mark P.
Website: http://www.thecbandqinwyoming.comVideos: https://www.youtube.com/user/mabrunton
I am building a modular design, myself. For now, changing the height of the legs is easily accomplished. If I reach a point where I can't stand up, then there is probably a lot I won't be able to do, including working underneath the layout.
However it still could be done with someone with handyman but no model railroad skills.
The OP may have a degenerative condition, besides oncoming old age, which is none of our business. If such a condition exists, Mel has some good advice to build it low. There are high chairs, like you find in a bar, but infirmity may make getting in them a bit risky.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
My wife and I are aging, and my whole house remodel and layout room are being built with consideration for the future.
.
My layout will be about 36 inches high with ample clearance for a mobility chair, not only at the layout, but also at the construction desk that will share the layout room.
Inside the walls of the master bedroom and bath are the anchor points for future support railings. The bathroom ceiling has an anchor point for a lift to enter and exit the tub.
And of course, a wheelchair ramp is at the entrance.
None of this is needed now, but I do not want to remodel the house twice, and I certainly do not want to not be able to access my layout.
Hopefully I build the mechanicals of the layout well enough that under-table maintenance will be minimal.
Oh... and everything that Mel stated as well.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
I inherited a rollator that I use for working on my shelf layout. Though a bit more cumbersome than an office chair it has brakes that lock in place.
Joe Staten Island West
This would work for now and in the future
https://www.amazon.com/TilTable-Book-Tables-Model-Railroad/dp/0983579008/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1543882589&sr=1-1-fkmr0&keywords=tilt+table+model+railroad
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZv8S_eXopQ
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
rrinker I'm approaching a need for knee repalcement. I was worried about how I can get in my house until fully recovered - I have a single story house with a basement, but it's a raised ranch style, so I have one flight up steps to go up to get in from the garage, either exterior or interior. But then I don't really need to do that - I can drive up the side lawn and then walk across the relatively flat back yard and go in the back door, just one small step up. --Randy
Randy,
I've just recently become an expert in recuperating from knee surgery.
Getting home and inside won't generally be much of a problem. You'll be required to have a driver bring you home. Getting inside will be pretty easy and painless because you'll still have happy juice in your system. Once inside, you'll not be going outside much for 2-3 weeks (I read LOTS of trashy novels). Then you might be able to drive yourself and hobble around.
I got my first knee replacement April 3. My second June 30. I started back at work October 1, as an electrician.
If I can be of help, PM me.
Ed
Design it so that a raised platform can be installed in the aisles. Even if you don't need a wheelchair, a roll around chair could be used if long periods of standing is the issue.
Good luck,
Richard
OK, I'm going to be 70 this coming June, and I've never had to work on the bottom side since I built it, 10 years ago, except, retrieving items I've stored under it.
Mine is about 50" above the floor. I have no kids around that like to see the layout, just me.
I'm a retired cement finisher, and my hips and knees are a constant concern. Knees get to be a recurring problem.
Mike.
My You Tube
Besides table height, you might want to consider the floor. I have concrete that I had painted. It's fine for now but foam padding is the longer-term option. That not only should give the layout a cleaner look, but make standing easier folks come over with difficulty standing.
Another option is for poeple to talk to rehab facilities or occupational therapists of ways to make your respective layouts more ADA friendly. Perhaps you also can visit a local VA facilitiy for their suggestions. I bet there are plenty in local communities who even do auto mechanics that requires a lot of shifting and moving.
Why dose everyone assume you will have problems as you age, to me this is very confusing. Maybe it is just my family but I am in much better shape than I was in my 40's (66 now). My mom at 97 still goes out to eat but she dose use a walker now (fear of falling) and started doing this a few years back. So back to the question, isle width is proubly the most important consideration (if I remember my training it should be 42" so a wheelchair can turn around). As far as height, if the height is within reason now a small ramped platform could fix things if a problem developed.
rrebell Why dose everyone assume you will have problems as you age...
Why dose everyone assume you will have problems as you age...
Because you PROBABLY will. Not you in particular. You might be the guy who plays tennis when he's 90 (my sorta ex-father-in-law). But I think most people do have problems when/if they get older. I know I do/did.
And, if it's not too much trouble, it's good to make allowances. For example, if you're remodeling your bathroom down to the studs, add some extra blocking so that grab bars COULD be added if necessary. Just a few bucks extra.
I do think the concern can get carried away, and turn into its own hobby.
Wide aisles are, by the way, a pleasure to just about everybody.
Thats what I mean realy, people get carried away. Also you must look after your own health. Got a buddy with problems, messed up back and diabeties but both (in his case) could be fixed with the loss of weight, but he will not, make me sad.
I am 71 years old and in a wheelchair due to loss of a leg. I built my layout benchwork with a 34" height. I am putting in a second level and I use a drafting chair with good rollers and it is quite satisfactory in getting around to all the layout. The layour is appx 16'x24" with an 8" across the back then another 16"x24" leg. Just over 3 foot aisle and it works for me. Still enough room to turn a wheelchair around in.
My layout is about 46" high, which when sitting in a typical rolling office chair is a touch below eye level for me and affords a good view of the layout. If I need to work on the layout, I stand up. If my back starts to bug me, I sit down for a while. As noted, being able to sit on the chair and reach under the layout when doing stuff underneath is nice.
Anyway I'd experiment with different heights first, maybe just a shelf piece temporarily set at different heights. It could be a layout low enough to see and operate sitting down might be higher than you might expect.
You might take a look at the Midland Valley RR in MR June 1977. It's a 14'x25' layout built in a 3 car garage with steel cables, pulleys, and counterweight to raise and lower the layout.
While not exactly a how to article, it does provide some info on how it was done.
Paul
Now THAT was an interesting read, Paul, thanks. (one of the few times I've been able to acess the archives) I think the counter weight is the key element for doing something like this.
I guess no one wanted to stand on step ladders and get pictures of whats above the ceiling.
The hardest part of such a layout is making the frame strong enough that it can be held by 4 or maybe 6 points and not sag. I know thee was one that used a steel frame connected to the lifting cables, witht he rest made of wood bilted to the steel main frame. I rember another one that was lift up like that that was in the basement of the house instead of out int he garage. And I also think there was one from earlier, somewhere int he 50's maybe, by John Armstrong that was designed for being suspended, with the main frame members that the cables connected to being doubled for strength. Still not a how-to article, but a bit more detail.
That tilting one is sort of what i was trying to explain, though not as wide - say 2' deep or so, 5-8 feet wide, a series of modules that flip up like that, runnign around the walls for a room size layout. Or, modules that mount in frames along the wayy, that are fixed in place, and just one "work unit" where any of th emodules can be places and then flipped over as shown - work on one section at a time, top side, flip it over to work on the bottom, and when done it gets slipped into the supprot structure as the next completed module. Any work needs to be done, the module gets removes and mounted in the rotating holder. Using lightweight construction methods, there's no reason even someone wheelchair bound couldn't pull a module and carry it on their lap in the wheelchair over to the work holder where it can be flipped over and worked on. All from a seated position.