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Working manual HO ground throw, anything new out there?

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Working manual HO ground throw, anything new out there?
Posted by rrebell on Sunday, November 4, 2018 7:03 AM

We have scale cars and track, why no working scale switch stands? We have new materials and can print parts in metal. The closest I ever saw were from along time ago (not counting Harp type). These were from Model Engineering Works or MEW. These were great except for the large spring (could be done better today) and they broke easily because of the materials they were made from in the day, we have better materials today.

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Posted by bearman on Sunday, November 4, 2018 8:18 AM

It is my understanding that scale ground throws would be so small as to present issues with both installation and operation.  I am more than happy using the Caboose Industries ground throws on my layout.

Bear "It's all about having fun."

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Posted by NeO6874 on Sunday, November 4, 2018 9:00 AM

A full sized ground throw (as in 12" to the foot scale) is a 3 foot long 3/4" dia rod with a weighted handle about 4" x 4" x 2", plus the mechanics in the base to take the rotational motion and convert it to linear of the rail. (NOTE -- this is from memory working the museum, it's been a few years since I've been there)

Scaled down, that's 0.425" length x ~0.0115" dia on the mechanical throw (for comparison, tortoise switch machines include 0.025" wire), and ~0.046 x 0.046 x 0.023 for the handle.  Pretty darn tiny ...

-Dan

Builder of Bowser steam! Railimages Site

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Posted by 7j43k on Sunday, November 4, 2018 9:34 AM

 

I've never seen one of these.  I tried ordering some, but they were sold out by then.  The importer said he didn't plan on doing more.  I neglected to ask why.  I haven't seen any on e-bay, so it doesn't look like people are trying to dump them--thus implying they are worth keeping.

 

Ed

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Posted by MisterBeasley on Sunday, November 4, 2018 9:40 AM

Rix makes model throws that mount on your throw bars.  They swivel with the turnout position, but they are indicators only.  You can't use them to actually throw the turnout.  With a Tortoise under the table, you get the illusion and the detail.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

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Posted by 7j43k on Sunday, November 4, 2018 11:01 AM

I think the challenge for making a working scale model ground throw switch machine is going to be the teeny tiny bevel gears inside.  Making AND installing.

 

 

Ed

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Posted by NVSRR on Sunday, November 4, 2018 11:28 AM

They would be so small they would be to delicate to with stand use and the forces applied to them

A pessimist sees a dark tunnel

An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel

A realist sees a frieght train

An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space

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Posted by rrebell on Monday, November 5, 2018 8:21 AM

MisterBeasley

Rix makes model throws that mount on your throw bars.  They swivel with the turnout position, but they are indicators only.  You can't use them to actually throw the turnout.  With a Tortoise under the table, you get the illusion and the detail.

 

Now if the rix worked.

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Posted by rrebell on Monday, November 5, 2018 8:27 AM

I understand the problems and all things do not need to be scale. Trouble with the Caboose high level throws is the handle breaks sometimes, repaced a few and the grown throws are great but do the really have to be that large. The engineering can be done, but you need someone that knows engineering and where to get commercial parts for it. One talked about small gears, what do you think are in a small watch, not to say any of those are any use.

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Posted by chutton01 on Monday, November 5, 2018 9:08 AM

rrebell
Trouble with the Caboose high level throws is the handle breaks sometimes, repaced a few and the grown throws are great but do the really have to be that large.

I threw my lot in with those HO scale modelers who use Caboose Industry manual N scale throws in conjunction with Peco turnouts - plenty of travel in the CI throws for the points to firmly switch.  Of course the N scale throws are only about 30% smaller than the HO throws, so they are still nowhere near prototypical size, but they are less obtrusive.

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Posted by bearman on Monday, November 5, 2018 11:06 AM

rrebell
The engineering can be done, but you need someone that knows engineering and where to get commercial parts for it.

Yes, I am sure the engineering can be done and the parts could be found, and I also suspect that the cost of the final product would be rather high if not outright exorbitant.

Bear "It's all about having fun."

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Posted by rrebell on Monday, November 5, 2018 12:09 PM

chutton01

 

 
rrebell
Trouble with the Caboose high level throws is the handle breaks sometimes, repaced a few and the grown throws are great but do the really have to be that large.

 

I threw my lot in with those HO scale modelers who use Caboose Industry manual N scale throws in conjunction with Peco turnouts - plenty of travel in the CI throws for the points to firmly switch.  Of course the N scale throws are only about 30% smaller than the HO throws, so they are still nowhere near prototypical size, but they are less obtrusive.

 

 

Tried those but did not work on Shinohara, 30% is that much more acceptable.

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Posted by 7j43k on Monday, November 5, 2018 4:00 PM

My plan is to NOT use switch stands that you touch.  I will use Tortoise or similar.  The switch stand will either rotate with the tie bar (see North Bank, above) or just not turn at all.

I guess if it really bothered me that the indicator could be set incorrectly with my non-rotating switch stands, I could have the indicator shaft set loose in the stand.  If I were taking a photo or something, I could turn it correctly.

I would MUCH rather have an accurate scale-sized switch stand that did NOT turn than an out-of-scale one that did.  I'm standing right there--I can LOOK at the switch points.  If I'm running on the main, I can look at the signal indications.

 

Ed

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