To create a deep water body, is it a waste to put foam pieces below the foam sub-roadbed before carving it out? I know many have had success showing depth by painting carved foam different colors after putting down PoP, mold, etc.. I plan to use this method. Howeover, what about also putting foam sheets below the existing sub-roadboad? I'm not aiming for a Mariana Trench!
Most of us model water with a shallow depression, painted to get the illusion of depth and then coated with something like Envirotex. Real physical modeling is better for exposed canyons.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
I agree with Mister B: all you need to do is make the water look deep. Making it actually deep is a waste of both time and money. Much of what we do is tromp l'oeil.
EDIT: I've changed the previously incorrect version of that three-word French expession, above.
Thanks to my friend Guy for pointing out my error.
Wayne
If you're looking at a lake or pond, unless the water is unusually clear, you're normally only going to be able to see the bottom in places where the water is maybe 3-4 feet deep...maybe 6 feet at best. In HO scale, that's less than an inch deep.
It helps to pour Envirotex in several thin layers, with a bit of tinting (a drop of craft paint) for each layer, darker at the bottom and lighter at the top. This obscures the deeper parts while still leaving the bottom visible in the shallows.
Three or four pours of less than 1/8" deep each is often plenty with a properly painted base.
Good luck,
Richard
Three or four pours of less than 1/8" deep each is often plenty with a properly painted base. Be sure to let them cure properly between pours.
EDIT: Not sure how I did the couble post, only typed the first part once. The miricales (confusion) of computers.
Don't sweat the small stuff Richard, it happens
I would have to say doctorwayne did the best water effects I have ever seen. He didn't even use Clear rosins. He used Dura-Bond 90 and schmoozed it. Then painted it with depth colors and put a gloss coat on top.
Well nevermind. Wayne if you got your ears on, post that beautiful picture and tell us what you did. I always enjoy that image. It gets my appetite up for some serious model railroading
PS The man was kind enough to send me the colors he used. I still have them in my MR files. Don't think for a minute I won't practice two or three times before I actually put it on my layout when I get to the point of modeling water.
I have been working with Dura-Bond 90 here and there through the years in construction my whole life but that is not the same. If I can get my stuff to look half as good as Waynes, I will be happy
Thanks everyone for the helpful suggestions. Your advice is quite sound. Making realistic water bodies is not difficult with proper preparation.
doctorwayne I agree with Mister B: all you need to do is make the water look deep. Making it actually deep is a waste of both time and money. Much of what we do is tromp de l'oeil. Wayne
I agree with Mister B: all you need to do is make the water look deep. Making it actually deep is a waste of both time and money. Much of what we do is tromp de l'oeil.
I don't understand French or the above foreign language, but I agree with everything else. No physical depth is needed. Just paint a bottom for the body of water that looks deep. Basically darker is deeper, lighter is shallower; use color shades consistant with the body of water.
Here is my river bottom based on water color techniques I learned from Rob Spangler:
I mixed combinations of 3 different acrylic colors (black, medium cadmium yellow and tan) in different combinations and blended to get the river bottom. The inner bank is shallow, middle and toward the outer bank (where scowering occurs and is deeper, darker shades).
After you put a material simulating water over the top, it blends even more:
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Great-looking water, Rio!
I wasn't trying to be elitist with the French, but it's a fairly well-known expression which translates as "fool the eye" - you may not have known that, but you certainly do a good job of executing it.
Thanks. Rob teaches well, but I think I'll go a little less thick on the gloss Mod Podge next time to see if it eliminates some of those fine bubbles that gave a cloudy effect in some of the thicker waves.
I took German so I only know a few idiom in that language like flimmer kiste and lebens mude which apply to other contexts. French is a little more posh sounding!
The "water layer" over the river bottom definitely helps fool the eye.
Thanks again for your very kind words, Fiddler.Sorry about the delay in posting, but photobucket was down for a couple of days.Here's the Maitland River(bed) before the water....3/8" sheathing plywood over open grid framework...
...and after a thin application of Durabond 90 patching plaster, some flat latex housepaint, and three coats of water-based high gloss urethane.....
Chippawa Creek had a similar beginning...
....but with a little more white paint for its shallower areas...
I have one more major river to do, but the area around it needs to be pretty-well covered in trees and undergrowth...
doctorwayne Much of what we do is tromp de l'oeil. Wayne
Much of what we do is tromp de l'oeil.
The exact expression is "trompe l’oeil". And you are certainly a master at art of doing it.
Edit : Reading back my post, I realized I made a mistake myself. I should have put a "-" between the two words. So the right spelling is Trompe-l’oeil.
Guy
Modeling CNR in the 50's
You're right, Guy: I had looked it up to verify the spelling of "oeil", but the answer included the entire (but wrong) phrase. I'll correct my original post to avoid misguiding others. Thanks for pointing it out.
GREAT water, Jim and Wayne
Brian
My Layout Plan
Interesting new Plan Consideration
there are sometimes that adding a bottom to water areas would be appropate, like if you are modeling late summer or fall rivers are not running bank to bank they might be up to 5 or more feet below early summer levels . the only way to get that look would be a addition of more foam, on last layout i had a body of water that had about 10 foot of bank . my present layout will have only small streams or dry washes , but as others said just to get apperance of water depth its not nessary.