Layout support

[ndbprr]

Has anyone ever hung one from the floor joists rather than supported a layout from the floor? Seems like it could be a way to eliminate under layout obstructions. A 1 x 4 double screwed to a 2 x 10 overhead for the vertical and a 1 x 4 screwed to the vertical with an extension out the back to contact the basement wall and a knee brace would allow a support system to hold the railroad and a mounting surface for the backdrop. Any thoughts? Thank you.

[orsonroy]

I remember a "Looking back with John Page" article in MR from a few years ago, about an O scaler in the 1940s who suspended his layout from the floor joists.

I did a little thinking about this method, and dismissed it for my own layouts. You'd need relatively the same number of supports as conventional legs, meaning you'd have vision blocks every 16"-24" or so, making the whole method visually unappealing (to me). Besides, I use under layout legs to support storage shelving, something that I seem to never have enough of!

[Leon Silverman]

You would be eliminating underneath obstructions, which, hopefully, get in the way only occasionally when you have to get underneath the layout, for obstructions that would block your view of the layout and the trains all of the time. !/4 to !/2" diameter threaded rods or cable vertical supports would be less obtrusive. The vertical that goes long the basement wall should not need a knee brace if it also is attached to the 2 x 10 overhead joist.
There is another problem with supporting a layout from the overhead joists unless you live by yourself. Somebody walking on the floor above you will cause vibrations to be transmitted to the layout, which can cause problems (derailments) unless you are running the larger sized (tinplate) deep flanged trains. Attic locations are isolated from vibrations created on a lower flower but the roof can be vibrated by the wind.
You might be able to avoid this problem if the overhead joists are suspended directly from the vertical wall supports but basement walls are usually concrete or cinderblock.
Knee braces can eliminate a lot of the underneath obstructions if you frame with 2 x4's instead of the usuall 1x 3's but use the gussetted shelf-support angles instead of the flat metal braces which will still bend under load.

[pbjwilson]

I've got a shelf type switching layout which hangs from the joists in my basement. It's only a foot deep and 6' wide. No problems though. Have thought about adding to it in the future and would hang the extension from the joists also. If you think about it, in a basement anyway, why build a layout on 5' legs when you can hang it from the joists on 3' drops.
I don't know how much vibration radiates from a joist that it would cause that much of a problem. I think expansion and contraction due to seasonal change might be more of a factor.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by pbjwilson

.. If you think about it, in a basement anyway, why build a layout on 5' legs when you can hang it from the joists on 3' drops.

As Leon said, you are trading off generally unseen obstructions below your layout in favor of visual obstructions around your layout. For most, I would guess, this is unacceptable.

I would have to have a very good reason for needing the area under the layout free to suffer the annoyance of supports running to the ceiling in my face every few feet.

That said, one plan for future explansion of the Muddy Creek RR is to suspend a rather large section from the ceiling with a cable and pulley system. Once lowered however, it would bear on portable supports under the layout and the cables detached.

Wayne

[ndbprr]

There would be no visual obstructions. A vertical 1 x 4 is hung from the ceiling joist near the wall. a horizontal 1 x 4 is mounted to the vertical one to support the layout. It touches the wall to prevent the the vertical 1 x 4 from skewing due to the weight of the layout once the layout is mounted. A third 1 x 4 is mounted at a 45 degree angle under the layout to support the outer end of the layout closest to the viewer. The other end is screwed to the vertical 1 x 4. the backdrop is mounted on the vertical 1 x 4's. There would be no visual obstruction. the big advantage is in keeping the room clean.

[Anonymous]

If you can anchor to the walls, the geometry you describe needs neither support from the floor nor from the ceiling. Basically a triangular bracket attached to the wall, supporting a shelf. Running the upright to the ceiling does give you visable supports for a backdrop, though.

Wayne

[Bikerdad]

If I were going to hang it, I would simply use cables with turnbuckles for levelling. The cables address the issue of skyquakes from the floor above by absorbing most of the shock, they are unobstrusive compared to using wood supports, and you can use eyebolts as the anchors, making for easy detachment if necessary, and also easy height changes. You could even go further, to using cable and pulleys for dynamic height changes if necessary.