railandsail In the beginning I was seriously considering 2" foam subroadbed shelves held up with some pretty nice metal brackets from Home Depot. The 2" foam is not so readily available here in FL, so I looked around for options. Found what I thought was some decent plywood (called Blondwood) at Lowes. I monitored a stack of it at their store and i became less impressed,...and thought perhaps 3/4" rather then 1/2". I had also inherited a 1/2" piece of 4x8 from a friend and stored it in my carport, both on its edge and flat on the cement floor. I became even less impressed. It went thru all kinds of gyrations. Then I ran across some 7 ply, 3/4" plywood from Chili being sold at Home Depot. It was the best looking stuff I had seen,....Radiata Pine It was a little thicker (and heavier) than I had originally planned, but then again I am not supporting it with 3" wood framework on its edge as in many conventional benchworks, so a little extra thickness could be helpful for both stability and extra cantilivered strength. And if I paint it all around that should help seal it against some of the moisture of humidity.
In the beginning I was seriously considering 2" foam subroadbed shelves held up with some pretty nice metal brackets from Home Depot. The 2" foam is not so readily available here in FL, so I looked around for options.
Found what I thought was some decent plywood (called Blondwood) at Lowes. I monitored a stack of it at their store and i became less impressed,...and thought perhaps 3/4" rather then 1/2". I had also inherited a 1/2" piece of 4x8 from a friend and stored it in my carport, both on its edge and flat on the cement floor. I became even less impressed. It went thru all kinds of gyrations.
Then I ran across some 7 ply, 3/4" plywood from Chili being sold at Home Depot. It was the best looking stuff I had seen,....Radiata Pine
It was a little thicker (and heavier) than I had originally planned, but then again I am not supporting it with 3" wood framework on its edge as in many conventional benchworks, so a little extra thickness could be helpful for both stability and extra cantilivered strength. And if I paint it all around that should help seal it against some of the moisture of humidity.
I just don't like the 'beaded foam'.
And I'm sure it would not work in some of the cantilivered situations I will be imposing on my roadbed/benchwork. I'll be covering that subject over here,...
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/t/269136.aspx?page=3
BTW so far I have been able to coat two full sheets of 4x8 plywood with 2 coats on both sides using 1/2 gal. So I expect to coat 4 sheets with this one gallon
Brian
My Layout Plan
Interesting new Plan Consideration
If the plywood is waterproofed so well that water will bead-up and run off, will water soluable adhesives even stick to it?
Like latex caulk for laying roadbed or track, and glue or matte medium for ballast? Or any type of water based senery application?
- Douglas
I'm not sure how to answer that question because there can be some confusions on how to properly use the 'solvent' wording,...ie"As opposed to oil-based paints, water-based paints (sometimes referred to as “latex paints” or “acrylic paints“) do not use solvents; the carrier for the pigment is primarily water"
The water in the paint is used to carry the paint pigments to the surface being painted, then evaporates away.
A second coat of paint (water soluble) will stick to the stained surface, so I imagine water soluble adhesives will as well.
railandsail I'm not sure how to answer that question because there can be some confusions on how to properly use the 'solvent' wording,...ie"As opposed to oil-based paints, water-based paints (sometimes referred to as “latex paints” or “acrylic paints“) do not use solvents; the carrier for the pigment is primarily water" The water in the paint is used to carry the paint pigments to the surface being painted, then evaporates away. A second coat of paint (water soluble) will stick to the stained surface, so I imagine water soluble adhesives will as well. I built my benchwork with metal studs and 2" to 4" of foam on top. My building is also subject to temperature and humidity swings and felt this would be the most "stable" construction. If you are going to use plywood in a damp enviroment I would go with marine plywood. Using regular plywood you would use up the savings tring to waterproof it. As far as using oil or latex or acrylic paint to seal the wood, oil will seal out moisture and seal in any moisture already in the wood. Water based paint will let moisture in and out of wood (ie breathes). Water based paint will also asorb moisture so water based glues may lose their grip. That's why there is Elmers glue and Carpenters glue. Carpenters glue is more suitable for damp locations. Of course there is always marine glue, think boats. I have no supporting legs on my beachwork with spans of up to fourteen feet with no problems. the foam has stayed as solid as a rock, some rocks are made of foam. Temperature and humidity swings are murder on layouts. So far, so good on mine. Don't over think what you are going to do! You'll only confuse the issue. Good luck on your upcoming construction.
God's Best & Happy Rails to You!
Bing (RIPRR The Route of the Buzzards)
The future: Dead Rail Society
bing&kathy...... I have no supporting legs on my beachwork with spans of uo to fourteen feet with no problems.
I have no supporting legs on my beachwork with spans of uo to fourteen feet with no problems.
Pretty sure he means the steel studs have unbsupported spans of 14 feet, easily doable with metal framing materials, or even wood in L girder or other girder configurations. I plan much the same at least on the along the walls parts of my layout, I don't want a forest of legs along the aisle side ofmy layout to get kicked, or get in the way of working underneath or then, once completed, of using the under layout area for storage with everything organized into plastic totes.
The foam itself - on my last layout with sections up to 24" wide, I had just one cross brace in every 4 foot section I built, so 2 feet on center support and there was no sag whatsoever. I wouldn;t go much further than that though.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Doughless If the plywood is waterproofed so well that water will bead-up and run off, will water soluable adhesives even stick to it? Like latex caulk for laying roadbed or track, and glue or matte medium for ballast? Or any type of water based senery application?
Interesting conundrum. OTOH, you need to make benchwork resistant to moisture to minimzie the expansion/contraction issues reported by many which can gave adverse effects. OTOH, stuff needs to adhere to it. What to do!
I certainly want to avoid the dreaded expansion/contraction problem so I'm going to go over mine once-over with the Olympic water sealer and at least for track and roadbed, I don't use calk, but rather track nails and ME spikes so no issues there. Scenery, guess I'll have to take my chances.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
rrinker Pretty sure he means the steel studs have unbsupported spans of 14 feet, easily doable with metal framing materials, or even wood in L girder or other girder configurations. I plan much the same at least on the along the walls parts of my layout, I don't want a forest of legs along the aisle side ofmy layout to get kicked, or get in the way of working underneath or then, once completed, of using the under layout area for storage with everything organized into plastic totes. The foam itself - on my last layout with sections up to 24" wide, I had just one cross brace in every 4 foot section I built, so 2 feet on center support and there was no sag whatsoever. I wouldn;t go much further than that though. --Randy
I am a little confused by your reply?At one point you seem to OK his 14 FEET of unsupported span, then go on to say you supported yours every 2 feet,...or 4 feet ??
Metal Benchwork
Did you see my latest posting on my 'metal benchwork'?
Over the past year I have been thinking and experimenting with ideas for my benchwork for my new layout in a shed. I was over at my local metal scrap yard this past Fri and noticed some hollow square steel tubing they use to mount street signs with. Its 2" square verses my flanged 1-1.25" bed rails, and its really strong, and its galvanized. So now I am definitely considering this stuff. I was originally considering making vertical brackets at each of the wall stud location to support the plywood shelves. then I ran across these steel square tubing at the local metal scrap yard. My contractor friend. who was going to weld up the considerable number of vertical brackets I had sketched up, came back with an interesting idea. Why not lay these square tube 'beams' horizontally along the walls and lag them into the wall studs. Then the plywood shelves (decks) could be attached along their wall edge and cantilevered out. And where the shelf/deck is of a substantial depth, the outer edge might also be supported primarily by another long piece of this horizontal square tubing with only an ocassional vertical support. I am now planing on utilizing this 'horizontal framing' idea on my staging track level and my lower primary deck. I may even utilize the idea for my upper deck, particularly as they will be more shallow than the primary deck. I will definitely utilize the larger 2" square tubing to support the lower primary deck. For the staging level (relatively shallow), and the upper deck I may utilize my 'bed frame angle iron'. I'll document this more thoroughly as I get to building it. Quick update,....the first piece of horizontal steel tube framing along the back wall of the shed. The large size square tubing is the type that will be utilized to support the edge of the plywood deck next to the walls.. This will be selectively placed around the perimeter of the shed. There will also be central pieces at the inner edges of the shelf somewhat like shown on this preliminary dwg.
Over the past year I have been thinking and experimenting with ideas for my benchwork for my new layout in a shed.
I was over at my local metal scrap yard this past Fri and noticed some hollow square steel tubing they use to mount street signs with. Its 2" square verses my flanged 1-1.25" bed rails, and its really strong, and its galvanized. So now I am definitely considering this stuff.
I was originally considering making vertical brackets at each of the wall stud location to support the plywood shelves. then I ran across these steel square tubing at the local metal scrap yard. My contractor friend. who was going to weld up the considerable number of vertical brackets I had sketched up, came back with an interesting idea. Why not lay these square tube 'beams' horizontally along the walls and lag them into the wall studs. Then the plywood shelves (decks) could be attached along their wall edge and cantilevered out. And where the shelf/deck is of a substantial depth, the outer edge might also be supported primarily by another long piece of this horizontal square tubing with only an ocassional vertical support. I am now planing on utilizing this 'horizontal framing' idea on my staging track level and my lower primary deck. I may even utilize the idea for my upper deck, particularly as they will be more shallow than the primary deck. I will definitely utilize the larger 2" square tubing to support the lower primary deck. For the staging level (relatively shallow), and the upper deck I may utilize my 'bed frame angle iron'. I'll document this more thoroughly as I get to building it.
I was originally considering making vertical brackets at each of the wall stud location to support the plywood shelves. then I ran across these steel square tubing at the local metal scrap yard.
My contractor friend. who was going to weld up the considerable number of vertical brackets I had sketched up, came back with an interesting idea. Why not lay these square tube 'beams' horizontally along the walls and lag them into the wall studs. Then the plywood shelves (decks) could be attached along their wall edge and cantilevered out. And where the shelf/deck is of a substantial depth, the outer edge might also be supported primarily by another long piece of this horizontal square tubing with only an ocassional vertical support.
I am now planing on utilizing this 'horizontal framing' idea on my staging track level and my lower primary deck. I may even utilize the idea for my upper deck, particularly as they will be more shallow than the primary deck. I will definitely utilize the larger 2" square tubing to support the lower primary deck. For the staging level (relatively shallow), and the upper deck I may utilize my 'bed frame angle iron'. I'll document this more thoroughly as I get to building it.
Quick update,....the first piece of horizontal steel tube framing along the back wall of the shed. The large size square tubing is the type that will be utilized to support the edge of the plywood deck next to the walls.. This will be selectively placed around the perimeter of the shed. There will also be central pieces at the inner edges of the shelf somewhat like shown on this preliminary dwg.
riogrande5761 Doughless If the plywood is waterproofed so well that water will bead-up and run off, will water soluable adhesives even stick to it? Like latex caulk for laying roadbed or track, and glue or matte medium for ballast? Or any type of water based senery application? Interesting conundrum. OTOH, you need to make benchwork resistant to moisture to minimzie the expansion/contraction issues reported by many which can gave adverse effects. OTOH, stuff needs to adhere to it. What to do! I certainly want to avoid the dreaded expansion/contraction problem so I'm going to go over mine once-over with the Olympic water sealer and at least for track and roadbed, I don't use calk, but rather track nails and ME spikes so no issues there. Scenery, guess I'll have to take my chances.
When I think of water beading up on a surface, I think of a freshly waxed car or something extremely glossy. I guess stuff will stick to it, but its not the optimal surface prep for that. I don't know how glue would adhere, especially if its thinned at all.
When I think of water beading up on a surface, I think of a freshly waxed car or something extremely glossy. I guess stuff will stick to it, but its not the optimal surface prep for that. I don't know how glue would adhere, especially if its thinned at all. I can see where nailing roadbed would not be an issue.
I don't anticipate any problem with getting some of the adheasive chalks sticking to it. I'm actually more concerned with them sticking too good, to the point that tracking laying directly to it will be unremovable/repositionable.
I guess I can use some sort of track nails on the wood plywood, but I can't use those on that masonite board I built the helix curves with,...going to have to glue that down. Rigth now I plan on tacking that track down with hotmelt glue, then some sort of ??...maybe just latex paint.