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Caulk Gone Bad

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Caulk Gone Bad
Posted by BigDaddy on Tuesday, May 15, 2018 5:51 AM

Do not use expired caulk.

I tried to glue two pieces of 2" thick foam together.  I used Loktite PL foamboard adhesive and weighted it down with full paint cans.  Previously I found out that if it is applied too thin, it doesn't stick well, or the drying process causes warpage.

Either too thin, warpage, or not enough weight and one side was not glued from the edge to at least 4" inward. 

I had some PL 230 caulk, which had previously worked well, but not nearly as much as I thought and ran out midstream.    I rummaged around and found some GE silicone caulk (expired 2011)  I shoved that in the gap the best I could with a putty knife and this time clamped the two pieces together.

19 hours later the caulk is as wet as when I put it on.  Drying time was supposed to be 3 hours, tackiness was supposed to be gone in 30 min.  A google search says this is a common problem with expired silicon caulk, one person saying it had not dried in 3 days.

Cleaning the bad caulk is not going to be easy, if it is possible at all, because the two pieces are partially glued together.

 

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

By the Chesapeake Bay

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Posted by SpaceMouse on Tuesday, May 15, 2018 11:23 AM

I was half expecting an infomercial with blonde-haired tubes ripping off bikini tops on a Florida beach. 

Chip

Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.

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Posted by NVSRR on Tuesday, May 15, 2018 11:51 AM

Nail polish remover will make it easier to remove the remaining film.  Test first to make sure the foam doesnt disolve too

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Posted by doctorwayne on Tuesday, May 15, 2018 4:32 PM

BigDaddy
....I used Loktite PL foamboard adhesive and weighted it down with full paint cans.....

I'd guess that this product would be more suitable than caulk for gluing foam.  While many modellers  use caulk to hold track in place, it seems to me to be a rather tenuous bond: good, I suppose, for those wanting to later move or remove track. 
However, the primary purpose of caulk is to seal cracks.  That it functions at all as an adhesive is, to me, with no experience using it as such, rather surprising.
  
While there's currently only one small area on my layout where foam was used (an incline for the service track, for delivery of coal and sand, to my Tichy coaling tower) I used LePage's PL 300, which is made expressly for use with foam, to affix it to the plywood surface of the layout in that area.... 

The instructions suggest applying it to one of the mating surfaces, then pressing the other into place, and then immediately removing that piece to allow the adhesive to "vent" for 2-5 minutes.  After that time, the piece is to be firmly pressed back into place.  I placed some weight atop the assembly and left it in place for the suggested 24 hours, and nothing is loose or moveable. 

I'll use the same method when I add some foam as scenic features elsewhere on the layout's upper level, as all of that area is plywood.

Wayne

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Posted by bogp40 on Tuesday, May 15, 2018 4:40 PM

Many times when mating 2 pieces of foam, there isn't enough air to allow to dry and cure in any short period of time. I have found that spreading with a notched trowel can help as it allows a substantial amount of air to dry. Had  one section of scenery that the 1 1/2" foam wouldn't bond for over a week, it was adheared with DAP Alex plus also. I have had better luck bonding foam using ceramic tile mastic, Quick tack and dried in a couple hours for a suffiecient hold to continue.

Modeling B&O- Chessie  Bob K.  www.ssmrc.org

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Posted by BATMAN on Tuesday, May 15, 2018 4:47 PM

doctorwayne
The instructions suggest applying it to one of the mating surfaces, then pressing the other into place, and then immediately removing that piece to allow the adhesive to "vent" for 2-5 minutes.  After that time, the piece is to be firmly pressed back into place.

I used PL300 and I pressed the foam into place and there was no way I was pulling that stuff up to vent, it wouldn't let me. So I left it in place and it is there for good. I made darn sure it was in the right spot the first time as my tummy told me it wasn't coming back up. All my foam is held down with PL300 except where I layered foam for mountains, there I used caulk as it lets them wiggle a bit if bumped, thus avoiding damage.

I find a lot of stuff in tubes does not age well once open. I threw a lot out yesterday as I was doing house repairs. Just the cost of doing business I guess.

Brent

It's not the age honey, it's the mileage.

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Posted by BigDaddy on Tuesday, May 15, 2018 5:14 PM

Maybe it was PL300 that I used first?  I'll have to look in the trash.  In my case the stuff on the edges was still wet, so venting wasn't an issue.  The smell of venting is vinegarish.

Like our Forum electrical mysteries, you don't get all the facts up front.  The two 2" foam pieces were 24 x 60"  That's a lot of nail polish.  I did not try it, because it would take more than my wife would be willing to spare.

On top of that I glued a 3/4" piece that was U shaped with the bottom of the U was parallel to the long side  |______|

It also had the same problem of not sticking along the long edge.  I hit both gapping seams with a garden hose and poked at the mating surfaces with a putty knife.   The 3/4' piece I was able to remove.  Had it stuck 100% with the PL 300, I think that would have been perfectly acceptable as the foam isn't subject to any shear forces, it just has to sit there.  But it didn't stick.

Ken Patterson (search youtube What's Neat) is a foamaholic.  He uses gorilla glue, which is water activated and Great Stuff, injectable foam to glue foam.  He has a metal nozzle he uses for the later.

Gorrilla glue is water activated and expands.  I already had the water so I filled the gap a couple times, with the foam sheet perpendicular to the ground and clamped the two 2" pieces together, where they hadn't previously sealed.  That worked!Smile  FYI Gorilla glue expands, not nearly as much as the spray foams.

The 3/4" piece has a lot of dried PL300.  I didn't tell you that side was painted.  It pulls off, taking the paint, but not the underlying foam, like skin after a bad sunburn.  On one level that is extremely satisfying, but it is also tedious.  I may just cut a new piece of foam.

Patterson, I believe, would use the Great Stuff spray foam to glue large sections of foam.  I need to review his videos to see exactly how he spreads it around.  If anyone has a link, that would be helpful.  I know how to find his videos, they just aren't as searchable as one would like.

 

 
 
 
 

Henry

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Posted by mbinsewi on Tuesday, May 15, 2018 5:35 PM

BigDaddy
That's a lot of nail polish. I did not try it, because it would take more than my wife would be willing to spare.

Nail polish remover is acetone.  You wouldn't have to worry about the foam, it would be disintegrated.

Mike.

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Posted by BigDaddy on Tuesday, May 15, 2018 5:56 PM

mbinsewi
Nail polish remover is acetone. You wouldn't have to worry about the foam,

I took a year of organic chemistry, but I didn't want to be rude to someone who was trying to help.  OTOH I could easily have bought a quart of it at ACE hardware. 

 

Henry

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Posted by 7j43k on Tuesday, May 15, 2018 5:56 PM

I have used Glidden Gripper to bond foam to foam and foam to wood.  It appears to be a variant of latex paint.  It is very easy to use--just paint it!

I've mentioned this in the past, and no one much noticed.  I suppose I'll eventually stop, and then I'll be the only guy who knows about it.

 

Ed

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Posted by BigDaddy on Tuesday, May 15, 2018 6:00 PM

I don't remember your posts, but in my early days of investigating foam on you tube, there are quite a few that claim that latex paint works.

 

Henry

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Posted by rrinker on Tuesday, May 15, 2018 6:08 PM

doctorwayne

 

 
BigDaddy
....I used Loktite PL foamboard adhesive and weighted it down with full paint cans.....

 

I'd guess that this product would be more suitable than caulk for gluing foam.  While many modellers  use caulk to hold track in place, it seems to me to be a rather tenuous bond: good, I suppose, for those wanting to later move or remove track. 
However, the primary purpose of caulk is to seal cracks.  That it functions at all as an adhesive is, to me, with no experience using it as such, rather surprising.
  
While there's currently only one small area on my layout where foam was used (an incline for the service track, for delivery of coal and sand, to my Tichy coaling tower) I used LePage's PL 300, which is made expressly for use with foam, to affix it to the plywood surface of the layout in that area.... 

The instructions suggest applying it to one of the mating surfaces, then pressing the other into place, and then immediately removing that piece to allow the adhesive to "vent" for 2-5 minutes.  After that time, the piece is to be firmly pressed back into place.  I placed some weight atop the assembly and left it in place for the suggested 24 hours, and nothing is loose or moveable. 

I'll use the same method when I add some foam as scenic features elsewhere on the layout's upper level, as all of that area is plywood.

Wayne

 

PL300 is a construction adhesive, not a caulk - it would function poorly to seal up gaps around the bathtub. It just comes in tubes that look like caulk and is dispensed using a caulk gun.

 Silicone caulk is not particualrly sticky and isn't very good as an adhesive. To seal the tub or your windows, it's great - once you get past the smell. Best for sealing windows and doors on the OUTSIDE. It will hold up much better than latex caulk for such things. It typically gives off a vinegar/acetic acid smell when curing.

 The stuff we fasten track with is latex ADHESIVE caulk - it even says so right on the tube. There is plain latex caulk as well - it is probably more adhesive than silicone caulk but isn't intended to really adhere things very well. The adhesive caulk though, hold the track, roadbed, and things like chunks of scenery foam in place very well. The main reason you even can remove the track without damage is because the idea is to use a VERY thin layer of it. Common example of how thin is, if you draw pencil lines to mark the track location, after you spread on the caulk, you should be able to easily see the lines. That's all it takes to hold the track in place securely yet allow easy removal by sliding a putty knife underneath (until you add ballast and glue that down as well).

 That said, to laminate two sheets of foam on my last layout, I used regular yellow glue, not caulk. I saved the caulk for the roadbed and track. Since the foam doesn;t really alloow air to permeate the surface, it took a couple of days with weights on top before it was secured. I think if I was going to do it over I'd take a tip from Ken Patterson and use Gorilla Glue for that purpose.

                                   --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

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Posted by 7j43k on Tuesday, May 15, 2018 7:47 PM

BigDaddy

I don't remember your posts, but in my early days of investigating foam on you tube, there are quite a few that claim that latex paint works.

 
 

 

That's how I found this stuff.  Someone was doing a demonstration, and it looked great.  I bought a quart and did some test bonding.  And it WORKED great.  So I used it.

You can apply it with a paint brush.  And it doesn't stink.

It's been a few years.  My recollection was to put weights on the pieces overnight, and done.

 

Ed

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Posted by mbinsewi on Tuesday, May 15, 2018 9:20 PM
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Posted by rrebell on Saturday, May 19, 2018 10:35 AM

Silicone caulk goes bad, very bad. I myself made the mistake on a home improvement project, even though I used to work in the trades I had always used siliconized cauk (basicaly regular caulk with an additive so it remains more flexable but is still water clean up) but this was for outside stuff was and I had a tube lying around, badddddddddd mistake.

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