Room Preparation
The first order of business is to start preparing the room for the railroad. This is what it looked wlike when I was building my prior version of the railroad some 14 or so years ago:
I did start adding a ceiling a couple yers later, but did not get very far when the transfer to South Carolina came upon me.
This go-around I want a somewhat more finished place in which to build the layout. I'm not talking drywall and carpeting, as the place is prone to get an inch or two of water every few years in unusually wet conditions. But the ceiling joists will be covered to reduce dust filtering down, and the floor will be leveled and painted a single color.
I've already started some lighting improvements, replacing some fluorescent tubes with LEDs. The fixtures will go completely over the next months, to be replaced with dimmable LED flat panels throughout. I'm going to order one or two to check them out before going for the full quantity I'll need.
Room prep won't be finished before layout construction begins, but it will be under way. I plan to start building the first sections of the layout in a modular fashion in early June. I'll move the modules as necessary as room prep progresses.
Mark P.
Website: http://www.thecbandqinwyoming.comVideos: https://www.youtube.com/user/mabrunton
BruntonI arrived back at the house in New Jersey in a Penske truck with my wife (I am remarried) in the cab
For a model railroader who is moving, remembering to take the wife along constitutes multi-tasking!
We'll watch your progress with interest.
Dave Nelson
That was kind of a funny way to say it, I guess, but I didn't think saying "...with my wife and our things in the back" read very well, either.
Mark, had you kept the home in New Jersey while you were relocated in South Carolina?
Rich
Alton Junction
Glad to see you're back in the game.
Just curious: I notice only two industies, Holly Sugar and Standard Oil. Are you planning to add more as you go, or you primarily a yard man?
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
Rich,
we tried to sell the house when first moving to SC, but that was when housing crashed, and we couldn't get enough for it. Since then I've tried to sell a few times, but because of the horrific taxes here housing market recovery has been anemic at best. NJ is one of the states that people are fleeing. It worked out okay in the end, though.
Chip,
The two industries shown are only two of the most prominent. The biggest single industry will be the Husky Refinery in Cody, on the upper deck.
A couple of locations will have stock pens (that's all of Powder River that will be modeled, in fact). Casper will have a large reefer icing facility in the yard and an oilfiled equipment supplier plus a grocer's supply house and a pallet maker, among other smaller industries. Lovell has a glass company (makes bottles and such) and possibly a bentonite facility, although that is a bit more modern than my era - modeler's license under consideration. Worland will have Crown Cork & Seal (makers of cork products and other sorts of container seals) in addition to Holly Sugar. Greybull has Greybull Roads, a destination for some of the Husky refinery asphalt, and a sugar beet loading facility that will supply Holly Sugar. Powell also will supply beets to Holly Sugar. Lander will have an apple co-op shipper and Wyola Feeds, which makes animal feeds and delivers to farm suppliers. Douglas has a stone and gravel quarry complex and an agricultural feed processor (will make animal feed from some of the Holly Sugar products and ship to the ag stores). Most towns will also have team tracks, and most alternate between coal / oil dealerships and farm suppliers.
In addition there is resort traffic to the Thermopolis Hot Springs, and to Cody as the eastern gateway to Yellowstone Nastional Park.
Then there are the interchanges at Frannie/Orin and Laurel.
Most of these locations will be developed in detail as time progresses.
Brunton ...as the place is prone to get an inch or two of water every few years in unusually wet conditions.
...as the place is prone to get an inch or two of water every few years in unusually wet conditions.
Terms like "sump pump", "dehumidifier" and "ventilation" come to mind. Well, "french drains", too.
And "money". Of course.
Ed
After looking at photos of the empty space on the website, I think I'd recommend a suspended ceiling, as opposed to sheetrock. Access, for one. Flexibility in lighting, for another.
The layout looks very appealing, to me. I'm just now getting into modeling the Q, a bit: a couple of the passenger trains on the Twin Cities line.
I look forward to seeing this layout being built, especially the part where I don't have to do any work, but the railroad still grows!
Hey Mark-
I am also glad to see you back in action.
That's a pretty good list of industries and whatnot. I like the idea of having a well-planned layout before construction starts. I actually live in one of those towns along your route, and as far as I know the inudstry you have listed for my town doesn't actually exist here, but I understand modeler's descretion and creative license and all that.
I will offer one little piece of info if you're interested . . . You show a little town between Powder River and Thermopolis; it is labeled as Shobon on the lower level plan. The actual name of that town is Shoshoni. It could be that the prototype route map you show on your website is printed a little fuzzy (it is an old map, after all), or it could be that you took creative license and re-named it to suit your fancy. At any rate, I am so sorry to interject unsolicited advice, and I hate to be the grammar version of a rivet counter. BTW, Shoshoni is a pretty famous speed trap. Warnings are listed on many travel websites and AAA.
Anyhow, carry on. Looking forward to regular progress updates.
Robert
LINK to SNSR Blog
Ed,
I wish I had room for a suspended ceiling. As it is, my hair just brushes the 1st floor supporting beams, and the joists are all of about 1 1/2 inches higher. I'm going with 5mm plywood underlayment in 2X4 (feet) sections, screwed right to the joists. That will preserve most of the headspace.
Robert,
What town? I think you told me once, but I've forgotten. Several of the towns have industries that probably didn't really exist, but I tried to plop the big ones where they really were, if I included them. Adding them all would have put another refinery in Thermopolis, for example, and I thought three was a bit too redundant. That also would have added the (Diamond?) sugar plant in Lovell. There WAS a Lovell Glass Company back in the far reaches of the past, but to my knowledge it never had rail service in real life. Greybull Roads is a figment of my imagination, though somewhere along the line (my guess would be in Casper) there must have been that sort of rail customer. Greybull also had a pretty respectable engine facility, but that, too, was excluded.
I'm aware of Shoshoni. We used to go through it all the time when I was a kid. It was (and still is) the junction between Casper / Cheyenne and Riverton / Lander and Thermopolis / Cody unless you wanted to take the really long way around. Shobon was just a railroad junction between the CB&Q and CNW, about 65 miles west of Casper. During the 1930's, I think, the tracks from Illco ( 15 or so miles west of Casper) to near Shobon on the CNW were pulled up and a new CNW connection to the CB&Q at Shobon was laid when the CNW got trackage rights from Illco, an already-existing (God knows why!) junction of the CNW & CB&Q, to Shobon.
Did you ever stop at Yellowstone Drugs in Shoshoni for one of their malts? I almost cried when I heard that it closed some years ago. The end of an icon!
I'd take that plan and flip it top to bottom. This would put the opening into the layout at the door and create a more open space where you might have traffic jams of operators and visitors.
I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.
Brunton I'm aware of Shoshoni. We used to go through it all the time when I was a kid. It was (and still is) the junction between Casper / Cheyenne and Riverton / Lander and Thermopolis / Cody unless you wanted to take the really long way around. Shobon was just a railroad junction between the CB&Q and CNW, about 65 miles west of Casper.
I'm aware of Shoshoni. We used to go through it all the time when I was a kid. It was (and still is) the junction between Casper / Cheyenne and Riverton / Lander and Thermopolis / Cody unless you wanted to take the really long way around. Shobon was just a railroad junction between the CB&Q and CNW, about 65 miles west of Casper.
At first I figured Shobon was just your short nickname for Shoshoni-Bonneville, but now that you mention CB&Q/CNW had a junction there it makes sense that Shobon is what they would have called it.
This falls under the category that you learn something new every day. Thanks.
carl425I'd take that plan and flip it top to bottom. This would put the opening into the layout at the door and create a more open space where you might have traffic jams of operators and visitors.
Seriously, it seems like a really obvious thing, now that I look at it. Great idea! Thanks!!
The well lit far corner of the basement is where construction of the layout is slated to begin.
The far fluorescent fixtures havenew 4000 Kelvin LED tubes installed in place of the original fluorescents. They're brighter - 4000 lumens, and consume half the power - 40 watts as opposed to 80 watts.
I've ordered a couple of these LED flat panels at $80 a pop, plus a dimmer, to test:
1ft x 4ft Flat Panel LED - 40 Watt - Dimmable - 4000 Lumens - LumeGen
They should arrive later this week. They'll go in place of the far fixture in the photo, and one that can't be seen just to its left. If they work out ok, I'll order more of the LEDs (a few at a time) and install them over the next year or so.
The exposed floor joist and house systems will be slowly covered over by 1/4" X2' X 4' white-painted plywood, similar to what you can see in the far part of the photo, as the LED panels are installed.
I'm currently unpacking and putting away many boxes of modeling stuff and tools, in preparation for beginning work on the layout itself.
Regarding reversing the plan top-for-bottom as suggested by carl425 -
Seemed like a great idea, but I realized the basement sump is right near the main door:
As the plan exists, this is underneath benchwork. If I flip the plan, the hole and piping are in the aisleway.
Oh well, good suggestion anyway.
Mark, couldn't you adjust your benchwork or something to keep the sump semi-exposed so that eventual maintenance/replacement could be effected...out in the open? If it's covered by benchwork, way at the back.......
I see that, in the last photo, the floor is uneven. What are you going to do about flooring? Could you sacrifice five inches and build a cover for the piping and sump, something that could easily be lifted?
Just thinkin'.....
-Crandell
Crandell,
The sump itself will be near the front edge of the benchwork. The piping and other stuff near the wall has never been an issue, so I'm ok with it being behind the benchwork.
When I was building the prior layout at this location, I didn't do anything about the floor - just stepped past the unevenness. In the sump photo, the lowered area behind the sump is only about 3/4" deep, but another part of the floor, visible but not obvious in the prior shot of the corner, is almost two inches lower than the rest. I may fill all of these low points with thinset, but I'm still looking at options there.
One thing I DON'T want to do is add another layer of flooring generally, as head height is already at a minimum.
I was too lazy to read through all the text. Are you putting up studs on the outer walls you can put dry wall in?
BTW, any relation to the maker or creator of this?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brunton_compass
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Seems to me, if ya were inclined, you could lower the horizontal run a few inches by cutting/breaking out the concrete. The you have a walkway.
riogrande5761I was too lazy to read through all the text. Are you putting up studs on the outer walls you can put dry wall in?
BTW, any relation to the maker or creator of this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brunton_compass
7j43kSeems to me, if ya were inclined, you could lower the horizontal run a few inches by cutting/breaking out the concrete. The you have a walkway. Ed
Nope. I envision two parallel saw cuts in the concrete. Then break it out. Then dig out some dirt. Then lower the pipe. Then fill the new hole with concrete. With just a little care, the access hole for the pump should be just fine. And then you put a cover in the hole. And you have a "smooth" floor. One thing to absolutely remember is to put a union in the sump, so that you can get the pump out when there's a problem.
Doesn't look monumental to me, especially if it improves things.
If the saw cutting is a problem, you can roto-hammer a series of holes, and break it out.
7j43kNope. I envision two parallel saw cuts in the concrete. Then break it out. Then dig out some dirt. Then lower the pipe... Ed
Good idea, though. Thanks for the suggestion.
I've been spending some time detailing out the benchwork for the Casper area of the layout, where I'll be starting construction, while I wait for the LED fixtures to install in that area.
The benchwork for the layout is going to somewhat modular in design, with a bottom supporting L-girder frame. Resting on that (possibly attached through a simple cleat or two) will be grid-construction boxes (three in the Casper area) upon which the "money" parts of the layout are constructed.
I hope that made sense.
Here's the L-Girder supporting base for Casper (typical 1X4 +1X2 construction). This diagram is idealized - the actual L-girder lengths will vary somewhat to allow for some overlap for rigidity, and to securely support the grids on top:
On top of that will go the three grid "boxes" (built out of 1X3's):
And just to show how it should all fit together, here's the track plan superimposed:
Or I may scrap the modular approach completely and just go with standard L-girder benwork throughout.
Finally!
After several years of waiting, planning, waiting some more, and replanning, today I took the first step in actual layout construction. I bought some lumber at Home Despot that I'll use to build the L-girder supporting framework. Cost: about $150.00.
Construction should begin tomorrow - a few days ahead of my estimate June start date.
Brunton Nope. Every few years an inch or two of water gets into the basement when the water table rises temporarily. I would have to dig out the floor and put in a french drain to stop that. Not worth the expense.
Nope. Every few years an inch or two of water gets into the basement when the water table rises temporarily. I would have to dig out the floor and put in a french drain to stop that. Not worth the expense.
Shame, it would improve the RR room environment by tons. But isn't there a water resistant drywall you could put in and add a layer of plastic on the back side; also only bring it down low enough that it doesn't come into contact with any water on the floor. Does the sump pump not keep up with the water that does come in?
If anyone is wondering, I did get started on construction yesterday, but I only had about half an hour in the evening. We're still unpacking and settling in, and doing a lot of landscaping work!
Here's the sum total of yesterday's progress - two 10' L-girders fabricated. Still, out of humble beginnings...
Mike
Water Level RouteOut of everything else that need to be done when moving in, you spend time starting benchwork? Good man!!
Or a very understanding and long suffering wife?
I moved into a home last November but my wife has a list of things that must be done first. Even after that, as much as I would like to start benchwork, I want to have the basement finished to a decent degree or I'll regret it later.
Over the past week I built one more set of L-girders, these two being eight feet long.
After that I tackled the ceiling and the room lights.
I picked up four new 2'X4' sheets of 1/4" plywood for ceiling panels and painted them bright white (glossy). Here's one ready to install:
I finally received the two LED panels I ordered about three weeks before. I wired one up and temp installed it to test its color and light output. Both looked very good. A side note: The folks are Lightup.com are not very fast, and their customer service is rather abysmal, but at $40 a panel their price can't be beat!
The center fixture here is the first to be replaced. It's a ballasted fluorescent fixture that draws 80 watts for two bulbs. The LED panel, which only draws 40 amps and is about 15% brighter, is laying across two L-girders in the lower left (the thing with the blue back):
Here's the temp install of the LED panel for testing:
Here's the panel final installed with the ceiling panels in place (obviously I need additional ceiling panels on the right side):
And here's a closeup of the final mounting method - four extra-wide mirror mounting clips. Since the LED panels are very lightweight, these clips are more than sufficient to secure the LEDs in place. A bonus is their price - $3 at Home Despot for enough clips for two LED's:
Next step is to mount the second LED panel to the right of the first (in the third photo of this post), and complete the ceiling panel installs in that area. After that I'll continue with framework construction for the layout. The plan is to finish the ceiling over every section of the layout as a first step to starting that section (it's much easier to do that without having to climb over benchwork!). I'll be working on Casper for some months before proceeding out onto the mainline, so ceiling construction will temporarily end shortly.
Take a look at the back of these fluoresent fixtures! This represents about 10 years of dust and dirt filtering down from the rooms above (click on the picture to see it larger. The smaller version tends to wash out the dust).
Over time this stuff would all wind up on the layout. Good argument for putting up a ceiling...
I've posted a video introduction to my train room:
https://youtu.be/u3GgopJujHQ
This video is an introduction to the home of the new CB&Q in Wyoming. It shows the basement room which will house the layout, gives a tour of where various locations (towns, scenic highlights, etc.) on the layout will be positioned, and also discusses upgrades being done to the room itself.
The video may not default to an HD format, but you can change it to the full resolution if you wish.
Notes:
If anyone has any suggestions for improving future videos and the soon-to-begin monthly updates, please let me know. Comment here or send me a PM.
Mark, I plan to hit the Report Abuse button for two reasons.
One, you have confiscated the entire basement without your wife's knowledge.
Two, you have your wife's consent and that makes me jealous.
I only have 1/3 of our basement for my layout.
The video is great, and it is quite easy to view on my laptop using Windows 10.
I find your project interesting and relevant since I am in the process of rebuiding my layout in an unfinished basement. While I do not get water in my basement, I have painted all the walls (poured concrete) with 2 coats of Drylok as a moisture barrier. I have also sealed the concrete floor with a concrete sealer. I have not finished the ceiling, but I am in the process of replacing a series of suspended fluorescent fixtures with LED recessed can lights (54 across the entire basement).
You have quite a project on your hands. I understand your impatience between "finishing the basement" and "starting the layout". I tried to do both at once and finally gave in to finishing the basement (Drylok, sealer and LED lights) before going any further with the layout.
This is great stuff so keep us informed as to your progress. Looking forward to your updates.
Thanks for the update and video, Mark. You have a great deal to work with, and lots to do. I would not finish/refinish the floor. As you say, it's already painted three or four times over. I would use rubber matting or interlocking tiles only where I will be walking and standing. Also, the walls look as if they have been wet at times, so you might want to take a hard and sober look at perimeter drainage if it exists. You are very wise not to place structures intended to be permanently in place against all those bad spots and plumbing/gas lines.
I sincerely wish you great, constant, and enduring success and happiness on this vast undertaking.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
Hi Mark:
Good video! You are a lucky man to have so much space available for your layout!
I'm curious about the LED lighting panels. Our club has a need to add more lighting to the layout room. I have never seen the LED panels that you are using. Could you provide a few specs, i.e. power requirements, where you got them, etc.?
Thanks,
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Thanks everyone, for the very kind comments!
Dave, here's the data on the LED panels I'm using:
The source is Lightup.com. Their customer service kinda sucks - it took over two weeks to get the first two panels, and their warehouse is right across the Delaware River from me (standard shipping is next day, I'm so close). I didn't mind the delay all that much, but whenever I checked the order status I was told "Shipping tomorrow!" That went on for about ten days. Still, at $40 a pop, it was worth that hassle.
I've ordered four more. We'll see how long it takes to get those. Estimated delivery at time of order Sunday was this coming Friday.
Meanwhile, work on the ceiling continues...
Update: 23 June 2018
Work has been progressing on the basement ceiling with the installation of LED panels and white plywood panels that cover the joists. I haven't posted because pictures of painting plywood panels are anything but interesting. Still, enough progress has been made now to share a snapshot:
The installation of one more LED panel and 4-6 more plywood panels back near the gas meter will allow me to start on the Casper area of the layout. That will bring a halt to mandatory ceiling construction for a bit. Unless my wife overrides that and insists on a steady pace on the ceiling.
(And she pitches in and helps with the work quite a bit)
Mark:
Thanks for the information on the LED lighting panels. Sorry it took me so long to acknowledge your answer.
Mark, the ceiling is looking real good. It is a great photo because it shows the contrast between the darkness inside the joists and the brightness reflected from the panels.
I probably should be doing this in my own basement, especially since I have now completed the installation of a series of LED recessed can lights, but my wife fears that a ceiling will lower the height of the basement and make it appear too confining.
The past several days I've spent cleaning the train room, especially the floor. While it can in no way be considered "spotless," it's at least clean enough for masking tape to stick.
Here's a couple of shots of the room right now:
Tomorrow down will go the benwork outlines. Then construction starts in earnest on the Casper area.
Finally I'm going to start building a layout again!!
My wife and I marked out the benchwork outlines on the floor using masking tape. What a big help in visualizing what is going to be built!
Then we began adding 1X2 stringers to the wall studs to support the backdrop, and test fit the first section of backdrop in place. The backdrop on this wall was salvaged from my first layout here, and also was used briefly on the layout in Allendale, SC. It will work fine with a little bit of touch-up:
And finally, yesterday we built the first of the L-Girder support frames:
Construction is finally underway!
I also put together the very first of what I hope will be long string of monthly layout update videos:
Very nice, Mark. I'm glad someone else has found the masking tape method useful. It has made the world of difference in my construction of a sensible bench system. Later, it's a bit of a pain where the sun don't shine, though, when you go to lift it off the painted concrete if, like I tend to do, I leave it in place for close to a year and walk on it several times.
Update: 16 July 2018
Crandell, I don't plan on ever trying to take up the masking tape. It will just have to wear off!
The benchwork is now well underway, at least in the Casper area:
This is two of the three sections for the Casper yard.
It's taken this long to get the benchwork up because we were on a family trip out west for a week. After standing next to the benchwork I think it's too high, so I'm going to lower it about 6 inches. Then I'll get the final section for Casper built and install the backdrop in this area. Then it will finally be on to tracklaying!
Update: 24 July 2018
Work is progressing, albeit slowly. The Casper yard benchwork is almost complete, including the sky backdrop:
Next will be fastening the foam down and starting to lay track!
Nice cleatwork! I think the progress is reasonable, Mark, unless you're watching reruns of MASH the rest of the time.
Update: 28 July 2018
Today is a red-letter day on the layout. The first track has been laid!
It isn't much - just a couple lengths of flextrack. But it's a start.
This is part of the mainline through Casper, which drives the location of the entire yard and engine facilities.
Once the caulk dries (by tomorrow morning), I'll have a better idea if this approach is going to work (I think it will). Then it's off to the races!
Love the photos, keep them coming!
Did the CBQ have any major interchange points in Wyoming?
They interchanged with the UP in Cheyenne via the C&S (a Burlington-owned subsidiary), and with the C&NW in Casper early on, then later at Shobon, about 95 miles west of Casper.
The interchange with the NP was technically at Fromberg, Montana, a few miles north of the state line, but there only a passing siding at Fromberg, so Burlington trains went on into Laurel, MT from what I've been able to gather.
I've just posted the second monthly update on layout progress to my Youtube channel.
11 August 2018
Progress continues in the Casper area, with the beginnings of yard ladder construction:
I had to change the switch lead a bit (that's the cork in the foreground with no track on it yet), because I forgot to include the switch for the runaround track (DOH!). The above is actually a photo after I fixed it.
Here's what the area looked like after I removed the incorrectly located cork:
The cork came up pretty easy using a putty knife. You can see where the foam surface was abraded a bit...
And here's what it looked like after the cork was relaid to include room for the switch:
It looks almost identical to the original alignment, but the lead is shifted about 1/4 inch to the left of the mainline. That was all that was necessary to allow the straight area for the switch, which will go in the foreground at the bottom left of the photo.
19 August 2018
Work is progressing on the Casper yard. The yard ladder is slowly growing, and roadbed for the first two body tracks has been placed and is drying:
Over the past week I've also connected feeders to the finished tracks and switches. I no longer need the alligator clips on the rails!
27 August 2018
Work on the Casper yard continues.
Four body tracks are now complete (except for the installation of bumpers on the stub ends), including wiring and installation and testing of Caboose Industries Ground Throws. Trains have been run in and out of all four tracks to ensure that turnouts are up to snuff - they had been in storage for years.
Coming up is completion of the remaining two body tracks and the runaround. This will require semi-major surgery on a few turnouts, which is why I paused to complete the first four tracks before tackling the rest.
1 September 2018
The Casper classification tracks are all installed and the ladder ladder switches all work properly. Feeders and ground throws are all installed. The runaround track isn't complete yet - I have to build a couple of left hand switches before I can complete it.
I scratchbuilt that station 25 years ago. It isn't the one for Casper - I just placed it there temporarily.
Today I spent several hours laying out the Casper turntable area. This photo doesn't show the layout too clearly, but if you look close you can see the tracks, turntable and roundhouse locations. You can also see a few crossed out lines where I mislocated a few tracks and had to move them.
And finally, Thursday while out for a walk downtown, we wandered past the local candy factory (Aunt Charlotte's, a local icon) and saw that they had a huge stack of beadboard styrofoam rectangles out for trash pickup Friday. After checking with them, that stack, in very short order, found itself in my basement! It's pretty crappy foam, used as packaging in some order they received a few days ago. But it should make really great landforms for my layout, and once glued together, shaped and sporting ground cover, it won't matter what it looks like underneath. Best of all, it was completely free!
I just posted my latest video update:
6 September 2018
I've started the incline behind Casper that goes to Frannie / Orin Junction. I started out with the same pink foam I used for the Casper subroadbed, cut to an angle to produce a 2% grade (basically cut at a 2 degree angle):
The ramp, in three sections, is long enough to raise the roadbed far enough above the Casper subroadbed to allow the grade to continue on its own 1" thick riser-supported roadbed:
The roadbed on the grade is green extruded styrofoam from Lowes, as are the risers and splice plates between sections. Parts are glued together using hot glue (the soda cans are there just to hold the subroadbed down on the risers while the hot glue sets. I just left them while I proceeded to the next riser up the grade). Risers are spaced every 12.5 inches, making each riser 1/4" taller than the preceding one. I'm still a bit out of my comfort zone using foam instead of plywood, but I'm learning fast, and it sure is easier to work with than plywood!
10 September 2018
Roadbed and track have been placed on most of the incline heading east out of Casper (while not arrow straight, the track isn't as curvy as it looks. The low perspective exaggerates lateral variations):
Here's a train on the grade, in a shot taken from the other end of the incline. The Proto 2000 NP Z-4 Mallet is straight out of the box, unweathered as of yet. It pulled 24 cars plus caboose onto the 2% incline, wheels slipping after about car 20 hit the grade. This is more than sufficient pulling power, as the NP locos will be relegated to the as-yet-unbuilt NP trackage on the layout. There will be no grade on the NP section of the layout.
Here's a short video of the loco backing down the incline:
17 September 2018
I spent most of the past week sorting out all my parts, tools, etc. and finally setting up my model building space. It looked like this when I started:
Now it's organized. Tools, kits and parts are out of the boxes and on shelves placed between the workbench and the wall. Sorry, I didn't take a photo of the cleaned-up workbench.
Once the workbench was ready to use, I started building new turnouts in order to complete the Casper yard engine facility. It's been four years since I've built any turnouts, so I'm having to re-learn how. Here's a completed-except-for-crossties one. I need to build about five more left-hand and a couple of right-hand to complete all yard trackage.
this is quite an undertaking. i always wondered what does it take to complete a layout like this. unluckily ( or maybe luckily , i can't tell for sure) i will never find out, entire basement is not something i have.
good luck! then again it seems that luck is not really needed as you know perfectly what you doing.
subscribed
Regards
Anton.
Thanks, Anton!
I only wish I really did know perfectly what I'm doing...
-----
I finally finished up Part I of the track plan analysis that I started in June:
29 September 2018
Classification area of the Casper yard is nearly complete, with the runaround track now operational:
The switch the loco is sitting on will lead to the engine servicing facilities, with the one behind it leading to the Standard Oil Refinery tank car loading racks. The far one will lead to the reefer icing facility behind the classification tracks.
I still need to install switchstands on the three switches off the runaround, and Hayes bumpers at the ends of all the tracks.
Once the turntable and roundhouse are installed, I'll be able to get those locos off the classification tracks!
Looks good, Mark. I have forgotten the dimensions...how long are the longest ladder tracks?
Hi Crandell,
I had to go look it up on the track plan - I just laid track until I got to the end!
The longest yard track in Casper is 11 feet, and the shortest is about 6.5 feet.
Total capacity of this yard is roughly 101 40' cars.
The one in Laurel will be bigger.
Nice, that's dream territory for me. My current build, started three years ago, has a 10 foot yard module with about 18" of extension inside of a turnaround curve at one end. I might be lucky to have an 8' first ladder, but the last one of maybe five will be around 5+ feet. I envy you your 11 feet, with a longer yard in mind to come!
It find it pleasing that, at long last, you are gaining momentum and enjoying this monumental task. I still regret the demise of that magnificent helix..................
Are you looking at running a first train by about Christmas, maybe a couple of weeks earlier, Mark? I mean around a single main loop, or are you building in a more modular way?
Yard is coming along nicely. Are those Fast-Tracks turnouts?
selectorNice, that's dream territory for me. My current build, started three years ago, has a 10 foot yard module with about 18" of extension inside of a turnaround curve at one end. I might be lucky to have an 8' first ladder, but the last one of maybe five will be around 5+ feet. I envy you your 11 feet, with a longer yard in mind to come! It find it pleasing that, at long last, you are gaining momentum and enjoying this monumental task. I still regret the demise of that magnificent helix.................. Are you looking at running a first train by about Christmas, maybe a couple of weeks earlier, Mark? I mean around a single main loop, or are you building in a more modular way? -Crandell
A few years ago I discovered that I really enjoy yard operations. Once I got the runaround track functional a few days ago, I spent a couple of very satisfying hours sorting the cars that had been placed mostly randomly in Casper. But while I like having the large yard to play in, I think the design impacts the enjoyment more than the size does. Yours sounds like it will do just fine!
It's funny you mention the helix. The October issue of an e-zine published a link to one of my short helix videos. I think that beast is probably my biggest claim to fame!
I'm building in a modular approach. I probably have the mainline finished about as far as it will go for some months. I'm going to focus on the engine terminal for a bit, and get the turntable in and roundhouse well underway before pushing the mainline on into the "wilderness." It will be sometime before the first loop is complete.
riogrande5761Yard is coming along nicely. Are those Fast-Tracks turnouts?
Thanks!
Yes, they are. They're all I use now (except for one spot where I'll use a Walthers/Shinohara double crossover). Apparently, I have a knack for building them. From the first one I built some years ago, I've had less trouble with them than with any of the commercial ones I used for years.
I'm about ready to go back and install all the missing ties under rail joiners throughout the yard. I procrastinate in doing that because I find it about the most tedious aspect of layout building.
Here's my October layout construction update video:
There will be no video in November. Too much travel and other stuff happening before Thanksgiving.
7 October 2018
The turntable and two garden tracks have been installed at Casper, and the table is functional.
Here's a short video of the table in operation:
Part II of Analyzing the Track Plan is complete and uploaded to Youtube:
14 October 2018
My friend Walt came over yesterday and helped me prepare the bench top for the roundhouse floor in Casper. He's using my hot wire cutter to cut grooves in the foam for the roundhouse inspection pits. I took an old yogurt cup, cut a hole in the bottom and trimmed the height until the cutter stuck out just enough to cut the groove to an ample depth. I still need one more roundhouse kit to add two missing stalls.
Today I finally finished up the roadbed for the rest of the A/D track and caboose spur in Casper. I cleared the yard by pulling all the cars up onto the grade.
Once I finish laying the A/D and caboose tracks I plan to finish installing ties under all the rail joiners (ugh!), followed with painting all the yard tracks. Weathering them will probably come somewhat later.
Pruitt He's using my hot wire cutter to cut grooves in the foam for the roundhouse inspection pits. I took an old yogurt cup, cut a hole in the bottom and trimmed the height until the cutter stuck out just enough to cut the groove to an ample depth
28 October 2018
I've taken a bit of a detour for a few days to begin construction of a set of bookcases for my library. Still, I have been able to do a few things around the layout...
The caboose and A/D tracks are now laid:
I also started painting the yard. First is a general coat of brown rattle-can paint. It turns out the paint, a Rustoleum flat paint, mildly attacks the pink foam baseboard. It's not too severe, but I think I'll probably brush a coat of latex brown paint on the foam before using the Rustoleum again.
Yesterday my friend Walt and I went to the Timonium Maryland train show. I was able to acquire another of the small Walthers roundhouse kits, so I have enough stalls now to build the entire structure.
Thanks, BigJim!
Here's my monthly construction update video for November (the plan I had that would scratch this update were postponed until next year):
December's construction update:
8 December 2018
I've turned away from yard scenery efforts for a bit to move the engine servicing facility along. Here I'm in the process of installing the roundhouse tracks:
I have a lot more confidence in doing the mechanical construction than in building scenery.
22 December 2018
I finally completed track installation for the Casper roundhouse. All tracks are in and powered. My entire stable of Burlington locos is sitting "in" the roundhouse:
The only track left to install to the turntable is the inbound lead.
I've barely started on the roundhouse itself. You can see two of the stall end walls laying behind the stalls. I have to paint all the walls and window frames before I can continue very much farther.
That is a lovely collection of Q power!
7j43kThat is a lovely collection of Q power!
Agreed, except you are missing one! Gotta fill that last stall. EBay, here we come!!
Seriously, nice work Mark. I'm working on a roundhouse for the club. We'll have to compare notes.
Thanks Ed, Dave.
I do have one lonely little CNW ten wheeler for that last stall. It's a Spectrum model from 15 years or so ago. I'd like to get a couple more, but Bachmann has discontinued it.
I cleaned up the sprue connections from the wall sections (I've got a lot of extra brick sidewalls now!), so the next step is painting them, and all the windows and doors. For the walls I've picked up some Rustoleum flat red spray paint, and a brown for the doors ans window frames. We'll see how that comes out...
Part III of my analysis of the track plan is now complete:
In spring of 2019 I'll post a video describing the operating concept of the layout.
27 December 2018
Making progress on the roundhouse.
Here the walls are drying after being painted with a Rustoleum flat red:
I want to light the interior, but don't want to spend a fortune on LED's or tiny incandescents. Hmmm. What to do?
Maybe these will work?
After a few minutes of unpackaging, unwinding the red & white yarn and unthreading the snowflakes, I got this:
Yes, I can certainly do something with these. I need to figure out how to replace the 3-AA-batteries power box with a connection to my 12 volt power supply and I'm off to the races. Shouldn't be too hard... Anybody got any suggestions?
PruittI need to figure out how to replace the 3-AA-batteries power box with a connection to my 12 volt power supply and I'm off to the races. Shouldn't be too hard... Anybody got any suggestions?
The 3 AA batteries will produce 4.5 volts. You can get a DC to DC converter to take the 12 v supply down to 4.5 volts. They are pretty cheap. RRMel knows more about them than I do.
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/DC-DC-Adjustable-Buck-Converter-Step-Down-Module-Power-Supply-4-0-38-to-1-25-36V/322629162300?hash=item4b1e32553c:g:UYgAAOSwcrFZgWm5:rk:17:pf:0
There are lots of different models.
Note that the LEDs in your string will likely burn out if you take them out of the string and run them individually on 4.5 volts unless each LED has its own resistor. By themselves without a resistor they need 2.5 - 3.0 volts or there abouts.
Thanks Dave,
I did a little bit of searching the web, and saw a couple Youtube videos by guys who converted battery LED strings to AC. One used a USB charger and cable. I might do that - USB power is 5 volts, which should be workable, and probably pretty easy to implement. I'll need to figure out where to connect to bypass the multifuntion switch and timer in the circuit, though.
2 January 2019
Happy New Year, everyone!
I finally started erecting the roundhouse. All the back walls are in, and the side walls are about ready to go:
Those LED's I showed in the last update look like they'll work out pretty good. I strung them through the roof support frames in the roundhouse, and they look pretty ok when they're on:
Of course, they'll look much better when the roundhouse is finished. I still need to convert them from batteries to a DC power supply.
I also started adding a throttle buss to the layout. NCE calls these "UTPs," and there are two of them installed now. As the benchwork expands, I'll add more. This mounting is temporary - when I add fascia, these will be moved there:
Hi Mark,
The roundhouse is coming along nicely. The LEDs look good. The weathering on the floor looks good too.
One thing I am doing with the roundhouse that I am building for our club is adding interior walls. They will hide the rather oversized interior frames on the windows. To add the interior walls I'm using Plastruct brick sheets along with .080" x .080" styrene strips that match the thickness of the window frames to support the brick sheets between the windows. It's probably overkill but I'm having fun doing it. The spaces between the inner and outer walls are great for running the lighting wires.
I'll post some pictures when I make some progress.
Hi Dave, thanks for the compliments!
I'll look forward to your roundhouse pics. I thought about adding interior walls, but decided not to spend the extra time. Too much other work to do on the layout. I may try to add them later (kinda like building a ship in a bottle, probably).
I just posted layout update #7:
24 February 2019
After a six-week odyssey to China, I'm back home and working on the layout!
The roundhouse is progressing, but slowly:
According to the kit instructions, the roundhouse doors should be able to open and close when installed. The two sets on the right do swing, but with it being erected in place, it's extremely difficult to glue the hinge frames to the vertical posts without getting glue onto the hinges, freezing the doors into place. After struggling for several hours to get the two end sets in place, and watching the door that's partially closed free swing from open to its current position, I decided to drop the close-able doors, and cement them into the open position. MUCH easier to install that way! I'll be going back and gluing the two sets that actually swing into the open position as well.
I anticipate another week or two to complete the basic roundhouse build (that does not include light-sealing all the cracks).
Hi again Mark,
I have made a wee bit of progress on the roundhouse. I got the interior brick walls installed but that is barely the beginning. I have been busy with other things club related like our anual Show and Sale. It was a huge success but it takes a lot of effort to put it together. I've also been working on the control panels for our new layout. I tried to cheap out by using the wire that we had available in the club but it is way too heavy and a real pain to route through the back of the panels.
Your roundhouse will be magnificent!
Thanks for the vote of confidence, Dave!
27 February 2019
The Casper roundhouse is nearly complete.
I still have to paint the roof, plug a few light leaks, install some outside lights and final install the roof. Weathering will come later, when I weather the entire engine facility all at once.
Meanwhile, here's a few photos:
That looks like a lot of empty space, doesn't it? When locos are moved back in it won't look so stark, and I wasn't planning on adding much, if any, interior detail. Then again I might have to from the looks of this picture!
I messed around with the brightness of the LED's a bit by changing the current-limiting resistor value. It's hard to tell because the phone's camera automatically adjusts the exposure, but the LEDs are pretty dim compared to most illuminated model structures I've seen. Usually model lighting is way too bright, in my opinion. With the room lights on you can't even tell the interior is lit, but with the room dark the lighting casts light through the windows onto the ground outside, without glaring, so I think it's about right.
Nice work Mark, you've been busy!
Mike.
My You Tube
Thanks Mike!
Here's my March Layout Construction Update video:
Great video! Lots of things for me to think about as I work on the roundhouse for our club.
The lighting is really well done. Not too bright. Do the large resistors generate any heat? Personally I'm inclined to go with individual SMD resistors for each LED. I think they can be disguised as junction boxes.
I have accumulated a ton of interior details, most of which will require painting. Well, it just so happens that we have a club member who is big into military figures and his painting skills are amazing! He just did a great job of painting about 200 HO scale figures for us and it only took him about two weeks. He is quite willing to have a go at all the accessories.
Your experience with the doors is very enlightening. I looked at the hinges and said to myself that they would be a PITA to assemble and I could see them being easily broken if not handled very delicately. Glued open they will be!
I hadn't given any thought to light leaks. Thanks for reminding me. I was thinking of doing the roof in two sections, both removable, but I think that getting them to sit tight at the walls will be a bit of a challenge. I am considering using shades on all of the lights so that may address the problem by preventing the light from shining upwards at the roof.
Thanks for sharing.
Hi Dave,
Thanks for the thoughtful comments.
When I calculated the wattage of the resistors, best I could come up with was a bit under two watts. That's a rough approximation though, because I don't have specs on the LEDs themselves.
I bought a resistance decade box with two watt resistors, and selected 2000 ohms as giving a decent level of brightness to the string. But after buying a few 2k-ohm resistors and installing one, I decided the LEDs were too dim. I added a second resistor in parallel, then a third. That came out to be just right for brightness. I could have installed a single 660 ohm resistor instead, but that would have meant another trip to the electronics store.
I haven't cheked the heat, but I'm sure 6 watts of heat dissipation is overkill for the line (but now that you brought it up, I'm curious, so I'll check). The LEDs in the string are pre-wired in series, so that's why I went with large resistors instead of smaller ones for each LED.
Regarding details, can you list a few of the ones you've obtained? I'd like to add a few - enough so that the roundhouse looks like a working shop to a casual observer.
PruittRegarding details, can you list a few of the ones you've obtained? I'd like to add a few - enough so that the roundhouse looks like a working shop to a casual observer.
I'll have to do some research on which sources I used because I just took all of the packages to the club tonight so our painting expert can get started on them.
I know I got some excellent highly detailed floor sized machine tools from Shapeways but they are a bit pricey if you want a bunch. I also got some really nice oxyacetylene sets from them. You have to be a bit wary of the size of the torch sets. The first ones I ordered were too small to represent heavy duty industrial units. They were more the size of what a plumber would use. I went back to Shapeways just to comment about the size and they were kind enough to give me a refund and told me to keep the torches. I ordered the next size up and they are about the same size as the ones that Woodland Scenics sells in their figure sets.
Here are a couple of examples of what Shapeways offers:
https://www.shapeways.com/product/TAL5FCLTD/horizontal-slotter-machine-ho-scale-1-87?optionId=33002164&li=marketplace
https://www.shapeways.com/product/FDGEWUA22/milling-machine-ho-scale-1-87?optionId=42058135&li=marketplace
For work benches, storage shelves, tool chests, simple bench tools like vices, and simple floor tools I made a bunch out of plain old styrene.
Here are some examples:
Old guitar string used for the threaded rod that moves the cutting head back and forth on the milling machine on the left:
I got some nicely detailed cast metal tools too but I can't remember where. These and the Shapeways ones are great for foreground detail. The simpler scratchbuilt ones can go in the background. I'll see if I can find the source for these metal ones:
Edit: No cigar! I can't find the source. Maybe somebody else will recognize them:
Scale Structures has a lot of little detail parts like garbage cans, buckets and boxes with or without contents:
Greenway has some interesting machine tools:
http://greenway-products.com/?subcats=Y&pcode_from_q=Y&pshort=Y&pfull=Y&pname=Y&pkeywords=Y&search_performed=Y&q=tools&dispatch=products.search
Thanks for the links, Dave.
Those styrene pieces you made look great!
PruittThose styrene pieces you made look great!
Thank you! I actually get a real kick out of making them. I seem to love modelling tiny things.
9 March 2019
Yesterday my friend Walt came over and helped me build new L-girder benchwork to extend the mainline out of Casper:
The girders are lower than the ones under Casper because the hidden staging tracks for the NP will be on these tables, and they'll be 5 1/2" lower than the Casper tracks.
In the far right background of the first photo, the elevated track will lead to the Orin / Frannie interchange yard, and from the Casper yrd level the mainline will extend onto the new benchwork above the NP tracks, sand curve around towards the camera, leading to Shobon and the Wind River Canyon.
23 March 2019
I've started laying the hidden track for the NP. This photo shows the cork roadbed in place. Track (three sections) quickly followed:
I added this bit so I could continue tracklaying for the Burlington mainline out of both ends of Casper. This track is located underneath the Burlington track, so it was necessary to add it before continuing on from Casper. The white plywood laying on the benchwork is a couple of newly painted ceiling panels waiting to go up.
26 March 2019
I've begun extending the line from Casper southeast into Orin Junction. The first bit of cork roadbed is down, with track to follow in a day or two:
I've switched from extruded foam back to plywood for subroadbed. No real problems with the foam, but my comfort zone is better with plywood.
Some additional ceiling panels are now installed (that's my wife Juying in the shot):
I know the ceiling looks a bit wavy and rough in this photo, but that's because it is, to an extent. The purpose isn't to make the basement into a finished space, but to brighten the room with the white panels, and more importantly, to reduce dust on the layout that falls from the joists and subfloor above.
29 March 2019
Today I reworked the Powder River section of benchwork a bit. It came off the wall at a 75 degree angle, but as I worked in the area I realized how much empty space there was between that peninsula and Casper. I like ample aisle space, but this was too much! So I changed the angle from 75 to 85 degrees.
Here's what the area looked like in the plan before I made the changes (the grid is one foot squares):
And here it is after:
The original distance between Casper fascia and Shobon fascia (across the aisle) is about 6 1/2 feet. This would probably tend to invite folks to stand there and chat rather than go out into the lounge area. The distance after reworking is still a respectable nearly five feet - plenty of room for folks to move past each other while operating trains. Plus this small change allows a bit more room for the Boysen Reservoir and slightly longer Wind River Canyon run, just past Shobon (to the left of Shobon in the plan).
I also was not happy with the length of the sidings in Thermopolis and Worland. While I was adjusting the track plan for the Powder River area I also made some simple adjustments to the trackage through those two towns and increased the siding lengths significantly. Here's what it looked like before:
And here it is now:
This simple change (basically, eliminating the S-curves at each end of the turnaround blob between the two towns) worked wonders - Thermopolis went from 106 inches between turnouts (about 14 cars plus loco and caboose) to 148 inches (21 cars plus loco and caboose). Worland is similar, going from 106 inches to 132 inches (18 cars plus loco and caboose). Plus there's much more room for the towns and industries in this rearrangement.
It took about an hour to reset the Powder River peninsula into the new configuration. Here's how it looks now:
Before it followed the lines on the floor much more closely (see my 9 March post above). I'm glad I figured this out before getting much further along in construction of this area!
IMHO those changes work wonders. Well done!
PruittThis would probably tend to invite folks to stand there and chat rather than go out into the lounge area.
That comment is interesting. Our club's layout has a squeeze point between the west end of the peninsula and the main yard on the west wall. Guess where everybody decides to stand!?! Of course! They stand exactly where nobody can get past them! We have considered several deterrents, one of which is positively 'barb'aric, i.e. gluing tacks pointy end up along the top of the fascia so people have nothing to lean on (get it? Barbs? Sorry, bad joke - couldn't resist.).
Keep up the good work!
Re "I was not happy with the length of the sidings":
Have you considered using turnouts on the curved sections adjacent the tangents to further increase your siding length? This also can eliminate the S-curves at the siding entries. The percentage gain is considerable, especially when considering the clearance zones.
JimW
3 April 2019
Dave, if I ever visit your club I'll be real careful to watch where I'm putting my elbows!
Jim, thanks for the suggestion. I did look at placing turnouts as you suggested, and have done that at one spot in Casper, where the AD track merges with the main at the beginning of the curve towards Powder River. But as my train lengths are planned for 15-19 cars, Worland and Thermopolis are now sized appropriately.
I got the first sections of track laid for the run from Casper to Powder River and Shobon:
I also uploaded my latest construction update video to Youtube:
While the layout is coming along nicely, the photos here highlight why I am taking the time and effort to finish the basement before I start building the layout, as badly as I want to start layout building. It makes a big difference having floor to ceiling finished walls for the room environment and appearance. Unfinished room is a major distraction, unless it can be hidden with close-up views. Of course the down side is the cost and time it takes to put in walls for a finished look.
A finished train room would be really nice, but as my basement is prone to getting an inch or so of water every couple of years during a really rainy spell, I'm not going to spend extra money I don't have to finish it. Ceiling panels are for dust control, and I'll put some rubber mats on the floor for comfort standing (and cement dust control, though the floor was painted at one time).
The 2X4's on the floor that support the backdrop studs are pressure treated to resist the occasional water incursion. For temperature comfort I my place some pink foam sheets loosely behind the layout along the walls, but since even moisture-resistant drywall doesn't stand up well when sitting in water, finished walls are not going to happen.
The layout will have curtains around the bottom of the benchwork at some point (several years from now), and I'm thinking of putting up some panels above the backdrop to the ceiling. All together that should hide most of the unfinished part of the basement, but that's about as far as I'm going to go, since I can't afford to add a proper french drain, which is the only way to really prevent future water incursions.
Great video! Great idea for doing superelevation too!! It just so happens that someone just donated about six rolls of 1/4" masking tape to the club. The track is only nailed in place so I don't think that installing the masking tape would be too bad a job.
I have a small amount of water that comes into my basement every year in the late winter. It only happens once or twice and only lasts for a few hours, and only when the ground is still frozen and we have a heavy rain. Fortunately there is very little water and the leak is within 3 ft of the floor drain so the water doesn't cause any problems other than being a nuisance. Like you say, the cost to fix the problem properly would be horrendous. I have sealed the basement walls but the leak persists.
Thanks Dave! The superelevation idea came from an article written around 20 years ago by Paul Dolkos. The staggered ends make for a nice gentle ramp into the superelevation. Best part is, it's easy to do! That's a key element for me.
16 April 2019
The past couple of weeks I've been working quite a bit on the ceiling, adding new white panels and an LED fixture, and preparing for more white panels as soon as I can get them painted (I have to buy them first - that's tomorrow):
I've also added one more L-Girder support section to the end of the Powder River peninsula:
I got shot down on the superelevation idea. Too much work now that the track is in place. Oh well.
hon30critterI got shot down on the superelevation idea. Too much work now that the track is in place. Oh well.
You mean the mantra of your club isn't "Let's tear it out and re-do it!"?
I'm about to build some L-girder benchwork myself and am curious to know why you chose to deviate from Westcott's design in your construction.
I don't mean to critique your design. I just want to understand your choices since I'm getting ready to build my peninsula benchwork (the rest is attached to the walls so I used simple grid construction) and I'm always looking for new and improved ideas.
BTW, I love your monthly video updates. They are very well done. Please keep them coming.
PruittYou mean the mantra of your club isn't "Let's tear it out and re-do it!"?
Not yet anyhow. I'm sure that once all the ballast and scenery is in place we will decide to do it!
Hi Carl,
Thanks for the nice comments!
1. I've never really had a need for the longitudinal sway braces. The benchwork is very stable without them. The 2X3's I use do contribute to the stiffness of the legs. If I had the layout on casters I would probably use them, but since there isn't any intentional force applied longitudinally, so far they don't seem necessary.
2. The X braces on the legs lock them into a specific orientation with respect to each other. This is a special case of a "four bar linkage" as it's known to Mechanical Engineers (though I only dealt with them once or twice during my entire ME career). Adding the block in the middle of the X fully constrains the legs from moving relative to each other, so the connection at the joist is not necessary.
3. The joists are made from 3/4" red oak plywood cut into 3" wide strips. That means screwing up from the L-Girder into the joist would be going into a just a few plies, in a direction where the screw's holding power is lowest (kinda similar to going into end grain on dimensional lumber). The plywood has two faces and four "ends," compared to four faces and two ends in dimensional lumber. So I basically build a grid to put on top of the L-Girder. I could use 2X2's to attach the joist to the L-Girder, but to be honest that hadn't occured until I read your question. I may try that. 2X2's are already used for corners and joists on the grids, so that would reduce cost a bit.I did think about just going with the plywood grid and forgetting about the L-Girders, but even 3/4" plywood is somewhat more flexible along the wide face than dimensional lumber, so I want that underlying stiffness. Overkill probably, but it does make for solid benchwork.
Thanks for sharing your thinking - particularly on the four bar linkage. I'm not sure I understand exactly how a linkage (which to me implies movement) applies to something rigid but I had to google it and enjoyed learning about it. I thought it was about creating triangles.
PruittI could use 2X2's to attach the joist to the L-Girder
These are only $32 per 100 (pretty cheap) and might work well for attaching joists to girders.
You said you like overkill, how about something with "hurricane" in the name?
Following along with Mark's build, those diagonals (X braces) also act as "sway braces", and make a rigid "box" out of the bench section.
Diagonals in the long direction would complete that "box" effect, but once the bench is in place, and fastened together, the complete bench work "system" will prevent any sway, in the long direction.
If each section was a stand-alone table, then diagonals the long way would be needed.
I like those hurricane clips, looks nice and simple.
I'll go back to watching
carl425 Thanks for sharing your thinking - particularly on the four bar linkage. I'm not sure I understand exactly how a linkage (which to me implies movement) applies to something rigid but I had to google it and enjoyed learning about it. I thought it was about creating triangles. Pruitt I could use 2X2's to attach the joist to the L-Girder These are only $32 per 100 (pretty cheap) and might work well for attaching joists to girders. You said you like overkill, how about something with "hurricane" in the name?
Pruitt I could use 2X2's to attach the joist to the L-Girder
carl425These are only $32 per 100 (pretty cheap) and might work well for attaching joists to girders.
That's not a bad idea, Carl, but the shortest drywall screws I've found are 1 1/8". Since the plywood is only 3/4" thick, that would leave the point sticking out the backside of the joist about 1/4". My fingers are very good at finding splinters, too-long screws and such, so I think I'll stick with the 2X2's. Screw tips should be very safely embedded in those...
21 April 2019
Roadbed is down for the Casper end of the Orin / Frannie Interchange yard:
Some track will go down over the next few days, but I need to build more turnouts to continue much farther. Also, right now I'm spending more time installing ceiling panels and LED lights, and extending the benchwork beyond Shobon on the peninsula.
3 May 2019
This month's edition of my layout update video is now on Youtube:
Hi Mark!
Great progress!
Thanks Dave!
7 May 2019
I've got subroadbed down all the way to Shobon now (the wide block in the foreground - Shobon is just a turnout on the mainline to route CNW trains to Lander), and roadbed in place for most of it:
I need to build a few turnouts to proceed further with tracklaying, though. That's on the agenda for tomorrow, unless non-hobby requirements intervene. About 2/3 of the way down the roadbed you can see a switch block. This is where the switch for Power River is planned. Powder River is just a simple spur to some stock pens. Here's the real ones as of twenty four years ago:
I've also added a "new" covered hopper to the layout. Here it is next to one its straight-out-of-the-box brothers for comparison:
Can you guess which is which?
This and its companions will be used for hauling Bentonite or Natron. It's brothers will be appropriately weathered and receive sprung trucks before they join it on the layout. (Hopefully my weathering efforts will improve over time).
In theory, the car has been knocking around the mines and refining plants in and around Wyoming for several years. Some day an agent from the Pennsylvania RR is going to come knocking and demand their cars be routed back to their territory!
PruittSome day an agent from the Pennsylvania RR is going to come knocking and demand their cars be routed back to their territory!
JaBear,
Thanks for the comments. I'll try the dishwasing liquid next time.
The car is one of a four-car set. They were a special run for the NJ Division of the NMRA a few years ago. Yes, they are Bowser.
I'm not generally a fan of RTR freight cars because of the price, but I have to say the detail on these cars is excellent - on a par with brass freight cars I've seen in the past.
12 May 2019
More progress on the Shobon Peninsula, mostly around the Powder River area.
The Powder River siding roadbed has been laid, and in this shot the siding ramp has been placed. It consists of 20 layers of 1/4" masking tape to bring it down from the mainline to the siding level:
And here's the siding on the ramp itself. The siding is code 70 and the mainline is code 83:
Here's a view looking from the switch down the siding. I sure like the way that siding drops down from the mainline. To the left of the siding will be the stock pens. They're sized for loading a maximum of six cars at once.
PruittI sure like the way that siding drops down from the mainline.
So do I!
Thanks Dave. Sometime in the next decade or two there might be some scenery to go with it!
18 May 2019
Subroadbed work has been continuing.
I've progressed past Shobon and into the Wind River Canyon. This view is looking from Powder River out to the Canyon. The subroadbed on the left goes into the canyon. The one branching to the right will disappear behind the foothills of the canyon, and is the CNW line to Lander:
This is looking from the canyon back towards Shobon and Powder River:
Pruitt Sometime in the next decade or two there might be some scenery to go with it!
I'd say that given the speed of your progress so far we won't have to wait 10 years to see some scenery. I base that partly on the situation with our club. Six months ago we were talking about it being 18 months or two years before we would be starting scenery. Guess what? It has already started! In fact, we have already torn out some of our initial scenery base because it just wasn't going to do what we wanted. In addition to that, we have pretty much decided how to do the large areas in the center of the peninsula. Six months ago we only had some very fuzzy ideas as to how to proceed.
Cheers!!
Thanks for the vote of confidence, Dave. I've made some pretty decent progress laying track this past month, and am ready to install a backdrop on the Powder River / Shobon peninsula. After that I'll be creating some scenery base in the area.
24 May 2019
Happy birthday to my CB&Q in Wyoming layout!
It's been one year since I started construction. To celebrate, I made this video chronicling the journey.
Congratulations, Mark, on a full year with amazing progress...vision...and skill!!
I don't say much, but if you ever wonder what I'm doing, I don't miss your updates. My wish, and hope, is that you continue to enjoy yourself, and the same amazing results, until the day you deem your effort done.
Great video, and I did watch it until the end.
You have done a considerable amount of work in one year! Congratulations!!
I am really looking forward to seeing you develop the scenery.
Thanks Crandell! This layout won't be finished before I am, so I'll never deem it complete!
Thanks Dave! Do you remember the part about scenicking the end of Casper yard? Maybe you shouldn't be looking forward to the scenery all that much...
PruittThanks Dave! Do you remember the part about scenicking the end of Casper yard? Maybe you shouldn't be looking forward to the scenery all that much...
"Practise makes perfect!"
31 May 2019
I started adding supports for the Powder River backdrop:
Then I clamped a section of the backdrop in place to see how it would look:
I also laid the first piece of track on the CNW Lander branch. This is code 70, as all visible track on this branch will be. I'm playing around with the idea of laying some code 55 track in Lander itself.
I also extended my convienience outlets (for my Dremel, soldering iron and so forth) along the Powder River, Shobon and Wind River Canyon parts of the layout. NOTE: If you don't know what you're doing with household AC power, don't do this! 120VAC can kill!!
Pruitt I also extended my convienience outlets (for my Dremel, soldering iron and so forth) along the Powder River, Shobon and Wind River Canyon parts of the layout. NOTE: If you don't know what you're doing with household AC power, don't do this! 120VAC can kill!!
You're right. It's a violation of the basic NEC (National Electric Code), meaning it's illegal everywhere in the US for permanent wiring installations. Since my layout power is plugged into a wall outlet in the basement, it isn't considered a permanent installation any more than an electric lamp is. So it isn't a code violation. It's also switched off most of the time.
3 June 2019
My latest construction video is now up:
More great progress Mark! Thank you for taking the time to produce the very interesting videos.
Moving along nicely Mark! The room is filling up! I like the white ceiling and the lighting, it seems to light up the room nicely.
Thanks Dave and Mike!
15 June 2019
I've mostly been doing non-photogenic stuff the last few weeks - installing ceiling in the train room and building turnouts for the Orin / Frannie yard. But I've also been working on the Powder River / Shobon and Greybull (back side) backdrops. Here's where I was with them on June 1st:
Since then I cut several new sheets of styrene to width, installed them, and joined them to the first piece behind Powder River. They're now painted. This is the Powder River side:
And here's the Greybull side:
Early in the month I also put a new sound decoder kit in one of my Life-Like Heritage 0-8-0 switchers. This was a first run loco with no tender power pick-up. It struggled with stalls even on my #6 yard ladder switches. Ran much better after I added the new decoder with a keep-alive circuit - TCS kit # WSK-WAL-1, which is made especially to fit these 0-8-0 and 0-6-0 locos. Here's a video of the before and after:
A very nice video Mark! The change is very significant! Did you add tender pickups when you switched out decoders?
Nice to see the progress on the backdrop!
Regards, Isaac
I model my railroad and you model yours! I model my way and you model yours!
Hi Issac,
No, I didn't add any new pick-ups. With the keep-alive, there was no need.
I also have a newer 0-8-0 with the tender pick-ups, and a couple of 0-6-0 (they were ALL made with the tender pick-ups). None of them has any sort of problem with stalling. But I like the new sound so much, I may upgrade them over the next year or so!
21 June 2019
This past week I've been back working on the Orin end of the Orin / Frannie Interchange Yard, which I'd left in early May to work on other parts of the layout.
First I installed the ramp from the mainline into the yard ladder:
Then I installed the first ladder turnout. The elevation transitions right through the turnout. I have never had any issues doing this. Also, the rail transitions from code 83 at the end of the mainline turnout to code 70 in the ladder turnouts and all body tracks:
And I was off to the races! After a few days' work, yesterday I installed the first section of track on the last body track:
And this morning I finished installing feeders. A short while later I cleaned the rails and tested the track and turnouts with a loco and a few cars, including my John Allen track cleaning car to wipe dust off of unused rails on the run up to Orin:
Here's a trackside view of the Orin yard throat:
Obviously the tracks will get longer at some point. But all track is now finished in the Orin throat area and Powder River, so as soon as missing ties are replaced and tracks are painted, scenery can commence in this area! I hope it turns out better than my efforts at the end of Casper yard did!
Nice turnouts, Mark!
I know you've been using the Fast Tracks all along, but these are the first photos that made me take notice.
I've never been a big fan of those ground throws though. An HO scale brakeman operating one would look like he's flipping over a refrigerator.
Thanks Carl!
I know what you mean about the ground throws - for appearance I much prefer the tall stands. But these (Caboose Industries 202S) are much more robust (not mention easier to install) than the tall ones, and since I don't use remote controlled turnouts except in the hidden staging yards, they're the compromise I've decided to make.
25 June 2019
The last few days I've been installing fascia at the "bottom" of the Casper / Powder River aisleway:
And doing my favoritest of all layout building tasks - installing replacement ties at track section ends (ugh!). It does make quite a difference in appearance, though - here the before and after shots of the Orin yard throat:
Fascia looks good Mark!
Pruitt Thanks Carl! I know what you mean about the ground throws - for appearance I much prefer the tall stands. But these (Caboose Industries 202S) are much more robust (not mention easier to install) than the tall ones, and since I don't use remote controlled turnouts except in the hidden staging yards, they're the compromise I've decided to make.
On my new layout, I have almost entirely eliminated the manual ground throws by moving to Peco spring loaded turnouts. A flick of the finger throws the point rails.
In my downtown passenger station, I rely on Tortoise-controlled Atlas turnouts operated by toggle switches on a control panel. However, when I first installed the turnouts, for testing purposes, I drilled two small holes next to each throwbar on the Atlas turnouts. I used a track nail to hold the point rails in the staright through or divergent route by moving the nail from one hole to another. Worked like a charm and no need for manual ground throws. I did that because I did not have room on the station ladder for installing ground throws.
Anyhow, I think that your manual ground throws look just fine.
Wow! I would have thought the addition of the backdrop elements would signify a major advancement, but it wasn't until I saw the fascia images that I got my own 'gee whiz' moment. They really do change the whole impression of where you are and what you are doing for me.
You're on a torrid pace, Mark!
Aw gee, guys, you're making me blush ! Thanks for the compliments!
Rich, before I was building my own turnouts, I used Peco and Shinohara. While I liked the way the Shinohara looked better than the Peco, I started going with the Peco because I really liked the over center spring on the Peco points.
Dave and Crandell, I was very surprised by how much of a difference the fascia made. Somehow it just really says "progress!"
29 June 2019
I've painted all the track outside of Casper.
First I prepped the layout by hanging newsprint over the backdrop and putting painters tape over all the switchstands to protect from overspray. I also laid newsprint over the end of Casper yard. I spray painted the track with a Rustoleum brown. Before the paint hardened I cleaned the top of the rails, first with a paper towel wrapped around a 2X2 block, then with a brightboy to remove the more stubborn stuff. I painted all the track I've laid outside of Casper yard - all in all six switches and around 40 feet of track. It took about half an hour to clean off all the rail tops afterward - not much of a pain at all! Here's what it looked like before I removed all the newsprint:
Here are a couple shots of the finished track. You'll see some bits of paper towel in a few places on some switches - I hadn't picked those out before I took these pictures.
Casper switch to westbound tracks (towards Powder River. Paper towel-wrapped 2X2 cleaning block in the upper left corner):
And the Orin yard throat:
After waiting a few hours for the paint to dry, I went back and ran my crankiest locomotive (from an electrical contact perspective - a Bachmann ten wheeler) over all the newly painted track to make sure it was clean. It had no problems.
Finally, I placed several chunks of foam that will act as scenery base around Powder River and behind Orin:
The next step is to fill in the space between Powder River and Orin with scenery base. Then will come Celluclay over the foam.
Here's the July construction update video:
Well, big changes coming again.
Note: I'm not talking politics here; just hard data. So please don't anybody get upset.
When I moved to New Jersey last year, I intended to spend the rest of my days there, and started building what I thought would be my last layout (hopefully spending many years building and operating it). But it is not to be. Property taxes for my New Jersey home jumped significantly since May 2018, forcing me to begin looking at options.
I compared costs in New Jersey vs. costs in Wyoming (where I grew up) and found that the minimum reduction in taxes associated with moving to Wyoming will be nearly $18,000 a year! Pretty significant.
So earlier this month my wife and I went on a house hunting trip to Wyoming.
We wound up ordering a new house to be built in Casper. It will be finished in about six months.
That means, of course, disassembling the layout - again - and reuilding in an as-yet-undefined new configuration in the new house.
So the current layout will be disassembled in the next month or so, and everything salvageable packed for moving.
I know the rough configuration and size of the new basement, so I'm going to continue this thread, and my monthly video updates, focusing for several months on redesigning the layout into a somewhat smaller space.
This will be an iterative process, and much will be based on input from folks who comment here on both the good and the crappy ideas I come up with. I'll also consider and incorporate many comments I receive on my monthly videos and from other sources.
In a few days I'll post the new basement configuration, followed shortly thereafter by my list of givens and druthers. The ONLY things not open to "adjustment" (even in the givens) are the basement walls, the railroad modeled (CB&Q) and the general location (Wyoming).
So get ready, everyone - I'm asking for your help!
Mark, that is sad news for us who are following your layout build. You have put a lot of time and effort into that new layout.
I wish you well on your relocation to Wyoming. Sounds like a neat adventure.
Stay with us and keep us posted if you will.
Mark does not seem to have many issues getting going in designing and building a large layout at a great pace. For many of us, this kind of move might be a problem. For Mark, I'll bet its just a minor hiccup.
Overall, I'd expect a basement in a newly constructed house to be a better overall environment than maybe what the New Jersey basement was, so I see it as a potentially positive change in addition to an adventure.
- Douglas
Hey Mark,
I'm sorry that you will have to abandon your current layout given the incredible amount of work that you have done on it in the past year. Moving is supposedly one of the most stressful things a person can go through, especially when you have to tear a layout apart. You have our support!
However, I see many positives!
First, you have just given yourself $18,000 per year to spend on your layout!!! Of course that's not realistic. I'm just joking, but I can see some additional funds being available for the new layout.
Second, you have a chance to correct any of the issues that you created for yourself in the current layout.
Third, you will be in a brand new space! You now have the opportunity to deal with the backdrops before putting benchwork in front of the wall. I also suspect that dealing with the ceiling will be easier.
Fourth, you can have power put wherever you want it along the walls or in the ceiling, and you can wire the basement circuits specifically to match your needs for the layout. For example, you can have a master power shut off switch at the entrance to the room. I'd give some thought to that.
Finally, given that I am a nature lover, I see Wyoming as being a pretty attractive place to live!
We will stay glued to your progress in your new home.
Good luck with the move.
Hope the move goes well, Mark.
Cheers, the Bear.
5 August 2019
Thanks for the feedback and well wishes, everyone!
Unfortunately the house we were going to have built has gone the way of the dodo. Builder turned out to be a bit unethical in their contract language, which came out in a contract addendum prior to start of actual construction. When I asked for a clarification of a term in the contract regarding the contingency that we had to sell our house first, they balked and terminated the contract (and are now trying to keep our deposit anyway!!).
Oh well, there are lots of other places out there to build or buy.
Meanwhile, here's the latest layout update:
If only life wasn't so much of a struggle. It seems like we have finally gotten out from under a cloud and....poof...another one takes its place. At this point, Mark, all we can do is wish you the greatest of ease and of success. This will be VERY stressful for your wife, if only because she knows how stressed you are. Be resolved to keep an even keel through this trial. Be strong for each other, and you'll both come out okay on the other end.
Sorry it is happening this way, but I suppose it's better that it happened before you were both fully settled and had built a strong community around you. Or, that you have to move away from one already established.
Too bad about your new house deal falling through. I hope you get your deposit back.
We will keep an eye on things. I'm sure we will have lots to look forward to in the future.
26 October 2019
The layout is disassembled, the house is 99% packed, and we load up this coming Tuesday (29 October). We close on our new house in Casper Wyoming the following Friday, 8 November.
Here's the final video update on the now-a-memory CB&Q in Wyoming version 3. Updates at the new place will start in December.
I wish you safe travels, a successful move, and much happiness in Wyoming, Mark.
The new house looks like it has tremendous potential for a great layout! I'm glad that the old layout came apart so easily. I look forward to following your progress in your new home!
By the way, I'm so glad to hear that the tanning bed is not yours!! Dianne and I both have skin cancer issues from too much exposure to the sun. I can't understand anyone deliberately tanning when the results can be so devastating.
Congratulations. Looks like the hiatus will be for about only six months, for what I hope is a more favorable situation for you. Looking forward to following the coming installation and future build out.
Good luck with the move Mark! I'll be waiting for version 4 updates, this time, actually located in Wyoming!
Best of luck with the move. I am also looking forward to more updates.
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I read along a lot on layout building threads, but do not reply to them much. I do appreciate you posting newsy material.
-Kevin
Living the dream.