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Steel Mill Scene in a corner

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Steel Mill Scene in a corner
Posted by railandsail on Tuesday, May 01, 2018 9:28 AM

I have been agonizing for sometime now as to how, ...or if, I could fit a Walthers steel mill blast furnace into my layout plans. First off I have a real nice one thats all ready built, and secondly it would compliment my Balt city theme on the lower level (and most of us know Balt used to be a big steel town).

So now I think I have found a place for it to sit, but I need help in its orientation and location.

 

I'm seriously considering locating a fully built blast furnance in the lower right hand corner of this benchwork plan. It would have to sit out from the walls enough to allow a double track mainline to circle around it. I sketched in a 30" radius lines to illustrate. (it might be nice if I could hide those as they passed to the rear)??

 

Those are 1"= 1foot marks along the edge, and the temporary blast furnace foot print I place there is 27" by 10". Of course the back drop in that corner could be more painted steel making structures.

I also have a small selection of a variety of steel making cars I could have hanging out front of the blast furnace.
 

Suggestions??

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Posted by j. c. on Tuesday, May 01, 2018 10:35 AM

can't rember where it is but there was a mill somewhere (pa i think) that was seperated by a river blast furnace on one side the roll mill on the other connected with a 2 track bridge across river. 

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Posted by bogp40 on Tuesday, May 01, 2018 10:44 AM

It appears that you have the space for it. Any tracks leading to the mill should come from the inner track towards the helix end. The lift out creates troubles for a turnout at that end, w/o adding another track across the liftout placing the turnout on the right hand side before bridge/ liftout. Does the orientation of the steel mill allow for that track placement. don't know what you have plans for the mid section from the mill toward the helix. Steel facilities will eat up quite a bit of space, not shure if coke ovens or rolling mill can work in the rest of the space.

Modeling B&O- Chessie  Bob K.  www.ssmrc.org

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Posted by j. c. on Tuesday, May 01, 2018 5:44 PM

found it it's called Carrie furnace  in Pa,

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Posted by railandsail on Tuesday, May 01, 2018 10:50 PM

I found another posting I had made on the subject awhile back.
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/t/264966.aspx

If one were seeking to built a 'steel scene' with just say the blast furnance itself, and then everything else as a painted on backdrop,....somthing like this...

What is the minimal size footprint required for that blast furnance structure itself

Walther's HO scale??

 09330000003054_fp

 

 

 

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Posted by railandsail on Wednesday, May 02, 2018 11:20 AM

quote by Bob

Here's a Howard Fogg painting of what I had in mind when I mentioned the tunnel. I recall passing through this tunnel during excursions on the Pittsburgh & Lake Erie in the 1970's. I tried to find it on Google maps, but it seems to be gone, possibly removed when the tore down the mill.
 

jl-pittsburgh-works.jpg

 

 

 I thought about this idea of a tunnel situation, and will have to give it more thought. The one problem I see is that my 20" separation between the double decks of my layout are already a little short of the blast furnace's height of 22".

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Posted by EMDSD40 on Wednesday, May 02, 2018 5:25 PM

You can run a total of three tracks into the blast furnace structure itself........two into the cast house and one along side. I have two blast furnaces built nose to tail with a yard and six tracks leading into both structures. The middle through track goes to the electric furnace shop. Don’t have a third party photo storage site, however I see you have a private email and I could send you photos as attachments illustrating how I laid out the mill. The plant also includes a rolling mill, coke works, and repair shop. The prototype steel plant you are referring to is the old J&L Steel Pittsburgh works. Three blast furnaces sat along Second Ave along with coke plant. The bridge was double track crossing the Mon River to the BOP Shop, electric furnaces and finishing located on the South Side. Even though the mill is entirely gone, I think the tunnel still remains. CSX now operates the former P&LE. The entire Southside has been redeveloped and the “Hot Metal Bridge” has been re-purposed for vehicles, bikes, and pedestrians.

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Posted by railandsail on Wednesday, May 02, 2018 10:54 PM

EMDSD40

You can run a total of three tracks into the blast furnace structure itself........two into the cast house and one along side. I have two blast furnaces built nose to tail with a yard and six tracks leading into both structures. The middle through track goes to the electric furnace shop. Don’t have a third party photo storage site, however I see you have a private email and I could send you photos as attachments illustrating how I laid out the mill.


Sure, I would love to see your photos, and my gmail acct will accept unlimited size files

 

The plant also includes a rolling mill, coke works, and repair shop. The prototype steel plant you are referring to is the old J&L Steel Pittsburgh works. Three blast furnaces sat along Second Ave along with coke plant. The bridge was double track crossing the Mon River to the BOP Shop, electric furnaces and finishing located on the South Side. Even though the mill is entirely gone, I think the tunnel still remains. CSX now operates the former P&LE. The entire Southside has been redeveloped and the “Hot Metal Bridge” has been re-purposed for vehicles, bikes, and pedestrians.


Of course I would love to have a big steel scene, but I just don't have room for it. Here is a rather compact steel scene I saw at a open house  layout this past Christmas. Even it is too much for my corner,...

railandsail
I am having problems fitting the steel scene in. The footprint of the blast furnace itself is just too large, ....a rectangle shape almost 27" long. I could put it in 'parallel' with the stone arch bridge, but then there is almost no way to include any service tracks to it.

I thought about sectioning it up so I might just include a portion of its face, BUT I would NOT cut up my completely assembled and weathered blast furnace!! Maybe I could find a really damaged blast furnace to kit bash??...Not likely.

So what if I were to make a background painting that looked like this...

 

then make some tracks out in front between the backdrop and the arch bridge. I should be able to make that backdrop image fit in the square corner just like this real life model structure does??

I might even be able to make a small 'switching'  area here for steel related cars and locos I have.
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/p/265819/3005127.aspx?page=3

 

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Posted by railandsail on Wednesday, May 02, 2018 10:59 PM

More Photos of that Steel Mill in a corner

http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/32556

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Posted by railandsail on Thursday, May 03, 2018 7:39 PM

Relocated Steel Mill

 

So now I relocated the steel mill scene to the upper right hand corner of the layout. I spread that Orlando version out a bit more and like that one I moved it all the way into the corner area. The trackage is not exact, nor the buildings, it is just a basic idea at the moment.

I moved the double mainlines out a bit more, and straightened them a bit more. As I have mentioned before those dbl-track mainlines are set onto a stone arch bridge that was located in the Balt suburbs (photos attached). That dbl track bridge is rising up to +4 inches as the tracks leave the shed to enter the helix going up to the top level. That stone bridge also provides a single track connection over to the other side of the layout as an alternative to skip the trip up the helix, and make another trip around the bottom level.

I have not bothered to move the turntable yet, but obviously it will need to move just a little bit to the left.

Interestingly I had in the past been a little concerned about the overall height of the blast furnace to fit under that top deck. Well now it sits at ground zero on that main deck, and the top deck in that area just happens to be greater than the 'normal' 20" for that level. That's done to provide additional height for that upper balloon loop to clear the upper helix tracks.

 

 

 

So I have a nice dbl-track mainlines passing between the steel mill and the turntable/roundhouse scene. 
And I can get some halfway decent trackage in the steel mill scene. I might even be able to provide a track under one of the arches of that stone bridge (like the hopper car in that photo) for a small diesel loco to utilize in accessing those steel work cars

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Posted by DigitalGriffin on Friday, May 04, 2018 12:17 PM

My basement empire is built upon sparrow mills in one corner.  I must have designed on 50 variatons before I picked one. 

Remember you don't have to build your kits exactly the same as the Walthers kit.  In fact, fells point has their furnaces sitting at an angle to the main.  Then the question becomes "What time period" you wish to model as that will affect if you have BOF's or Electric furnaces.

You might also want to look at the maps to get an idea of layout.  Unfortunately there's very little left of "blast row".  Last I checekd, even furnace G is torn down and that was a continous caster.  It's a sad fate for one of Baltimore's most fabled and largest employer (like Allentown PA that fell before it)

https://www.google.com/maps/search/sparrow+mills,+Baltimore,+MD/@39.2127868,-76.4844575,2001m/data=!3m1!1e3



You might also want to contact the steel group on yahoo.  They have tons of documentation on sparrow's point.

 

 

Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions

Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!

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Posted by railandsail on Friday, May 04, 2018 9:32 PM

Baltimore & Steel

...a little background of why I am trying to put both on my new layout...

Ever since Walthers came out with that steel mill kit there have been untold number of stand alone dioramas and full layout versions done on this theme. And it has fostered numerous other sub creations as to types of steel cars, ingots, etc, etc. I've visited a number of home layouts with steel scenes, and seen John Glabbs experiments with them.

I recall that Baltimore city had a known history of being a 'steel town',....the great big Sparrows Point facility
Images of Sparrows Point Steel



There was a time when Bethlehem Steel’s gigantic plant at Sparrows Point dominated life and the economy on the lower east side of Baltimore County. Everybody knew somebody who worked "downa Point.

Just so happens that Balt was also the birthplace of the American railroads,..."The Baltimore and Ohio Railroad (B&O) became the first  chartered railroad in the United States"


So on my new proposed layout I want to have the lower deck level depict the city backdrop of Balt, and concurrently the steel aspect. Problem is I am limited in size I can devote to a large industry such as a steel mill.

Just yesterday I think I solved that problem. I've found a place in the corner. It was inspired by a compact scene I had witnessed this past Dec upon an open house visit to a club in Orlando FL

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Posted by railandsail on Friday, May 04, 2018 9:53 PM

Bridges in the Scene

I wonder if I could do both? ....Steel trestle over on the right near the mill, then stone arch over on the single track left hand side in front of Balt City scene in that other corner (thin section buildings and painted backdrop).

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Posted by railandsail on Sunday, May 06, 2018 11:29 AM

DigitalGriffin

My basement empire is built upon sparrow mills in one corner.  I must have designed on 50 variatons before I picked one. 

Remember you don't have to build your kits exactly the same as the Walthers kit.  In fact, fells point has their furnaces sitting at an angle to the main.  Then the question becomes "What time period" you wish to model as that will affect if you have BOF's or Electric furnaces.


Hi Don,
Would you have any interest in taking a stab at 'rearranging' my initial plan. Here is a sketch of that area where the scale squares are 1" equals a foot.

(oops forgot about adding a photo/illustration directly to this forum. Perhaps I could mail it directly to you?)

BTW, I am not looking at any particular 'time period', but rather just a general steel making theme. I have most of the kit structures belonging to this 'set', but I'm sure I can't fit those all in (ie, the coke structure, etc)

 

DigitalGriffin

You might also want to contact the steel group on yahoo.  They have tons of documentation on sparrow's point.

Are they readily available on the net, as there are a number of groups abandoning Yahoo and going to other venues? Do you suppose there is someone there who might help me refine my SMALL steel scene?

 

 

 

 

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Posted by bogp40 on Sunday, May 06, 2018 7:37 PM

railandsail

Bridges in the Scene

 

 

 

I wonder if I could do both? ....Steel trestle over on the right near the mill, then stone arch over on the single track left hand side in front of Balt City scene in that other corner (thin section buildings and painted backdrop).

 

Since you moved the industry into that corner, I was wondering how any tracks from the stell mill would run under that stone arch. Any of those tracks would need to be near 90 degrees. By using the city steel viaduct the spans ar far greater and will allow track crossings(underpass) to be at an angle posssibly up to 30 degrees.

The steel mill in that corner may end up appearing somewhat lost especially under the upper deck. Maybe carry the steel girder all the way past as to not have the view blocked by stone arch. Look more like that picture.

Modeling B&O- Chessie  Bob K.  www.ssmrc.org

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Posted by railandsail on Monday, May 07, 2018 7:00 AM

Has anyone got a few examples (photos) of those steel viaducts they are suggesting? Remember this double track bridge would start out from ground zero down lower on that right hand side of the room., then gradually rise to 4 inches high as it gets to the rear wall of the room/shed where it exits to the helix structure.

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Posted by bogp40 on Monday, May 07, 2018 8:31 AM

railandsail

Has anyone got a few examples (photos) of those steel viaducts they are suggesting? Remember this double track bridge would start out from ground zero down lower on that right hand side of the room., then gradually rise to 4 inches high as it gets to the rear wall of the room/shed where it exits to the helix structure.

 

From a quick look at you track plan, wouldn't that give you almost a 3.5 % grade on that viaduct?

Modeling B&O- Chessie  Bob K.  www.ssmrc.org

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Posted by railandsail on Monday, May 07, 2018 9:35 PM

bogp40
From a quick look at you track plan, wouldn't that give you almost a 3.5 % grade on that viaduct?
 

I have a pretty long potential rise along that right side of the layout. I have been considering a steeper grade for that relatively straight section of track. If I used a 1" rise in 30" run, I'd have 3.3%. If I used 1 per 36 I'd have 2.7 grade. I'm thinking 1 per 32 which would give me 3.1% ??
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Posted by railandsail on Monday, May 07, 2018 10:35 PM

My steel scene/area is pretty small. Obviously I can't fit all of the Walther's sub structures in, but perhaps those 3 main structures that the Orlando layout included.

Is there anyone willing to give me a few ideas as to how to arrange those structures, and the tracks within that area?

I've attached a dwg with the scale marks at each 1" equals 1'

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