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Advice on expanding Indian Valley Ry Layout

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  • Member since
    April, 2018
  • 4 posts
Advice on expanding Indian Valley Ry Layout
Posted by scarpwi on Saturday, April 14, 2018 8:16 PM

Friends - This is my first post.  About 20 years ago, I built an HO layout from a plan book.  The Indian Valley Ry.  It worked pretty well and while my landscaping and model work is sub-par, I was proud of the wiring & control I did back then.  I am now trying to clean it back up and get it working so I can run it for my grandson.  I am considering expanding the layout around the corner.  I posted the original layout plan here along with a couple of photographs.  Please note that the location of the layout may restrict where I expand.  My request for good advice or sketches as to where to expand and what the layout might look like.  I would be most grateful for any detail you might offer beyond general advice (though I would take that as well).  Thanks in advance everyone!

 

Indian Valley Ry Layout Plan

Indian Valley picture 1

Indian Valley picture 2

  • Member since
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Posted by BigDaddy on Monday, April 16, 2018 3:47 PM

Welcome to the forum.  I think pictures in the forum get more attention than links to pictures.  You can't directly post a google pic here, there is a sticky on what you need to do.

That said, we don't know what you available space looks like. Obviously the palm tree is not where you intend to expand. 

The usual plan books, like those from Atlas have way too much track for the area, which in your case is 4x8.  The radii are also tighter than most of us would like.

I am not clear on your goal.  Are you trying to get your grandson interested in model railroading?  In that case; it is good enough as is.  Or are you trying to improve the landscaping and have a more interesting railroad?  If the later, starting over from scratch might be easier and give you more options.  Of course that is easy for me to say, because I am not doing the work.

 
 

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

By the Chesapeake Bay

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  • From: Rimrock, Arizona
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Posted by SpaceMouse on Monday, April 16, 2018 3:59 PM

 I agree with BIgDaddy. You've come far enough that you have refined what you know about your Model Railroading preferences--namely, what you like and dislike about your layout in particular and operating and modeling in general. Rather than expand, this would be a good time to rebuild, incorporating more of what you like, and less of what you dislike. 

Chip

Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.

  • Member since
    July, 2009
  • From: somerset, nj
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Posted by gregc on Monday, April 16, 2018 7:27 PM

scarpwi
I am considering expanding the layout around the corner.

what do you like and dis-like about your current track plan?

do you think you'd like adding a yard where addition trains can be staged/stored for running on the current layout?

are you bored with where you can take a train and need a new destination and/or industrial spurs?

how many engines do you have? how much rolling stock? ( i think i see some sitting on the road off the track).

do you run more than one train?  (do you take advantage of the sidings)?

do you have any interest in point-to-point operation?

 

it seems you could add tracks on the left side.  if you are willing to give up the siding under your mountain, you could possibly have two tracks coming off the layout.

each of two tracks could come off the layout counter-clockwise.  One from the outer track on the left side of the layout.   the other coming off counter-clockwise from the front track of the layout.

of course you create a wye, but i think you would be better off with two separate destination (imagine mile apart)

  

both could be sidings,  allowing the engine to swap ends of the train as well as storing/staging a train, and making the layout a bit point-to-point.

two three complete trains (engine plus cars) could be sitting/staged on the two new sidings.  a train leaves the siding, travels the layout, switching cars and arrives at the 2nd siding.   The train at the 2nd siding leaves the siding and travels the layout. 

The engine from the first train is moved to the opposite end of the train ready to leave.   The 2nd train arrives at the 1st siding.   Its engine must swap ends of the train.

the trains then return to their original locations.

one or more additional spur tracks could be added to hold additional trains.

 

i also think you don't need that short section joining the two criss-crossing loops.

 

 

 

greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading

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Posted by scarpwi on Monday, April 16, 2018 10:35 PM

Thank you very much for your thoughtful reply.  Others have suggested I just re-do my current layout and I understand their thinking as I agree in part with several of their points.  Your reply however was more along the lines of what I originally was looking for in the way of experienced advice.  I really want to keep my current layout, I would like to expand to the SW (yes, covering up the painted tree which is a left over from teenagers).  I like the thoughts you described. I guess I want to expand in such a way that it is not so crowded (others pointed out too much track and tight turns in the existing layout).  I would like a yard and another destination.  Rather than an rectangle, I wanted to put a more narrow expansion on for easier reach, more feeling of distance as you noted and yes I would like space for a yard.  I have three older engines but could buy another easily.  I don't have a ton of rolling stock but I have some... again, I can add more.  I have the ability to run two trains at once as I have a twin control and I setup the current layout with blocks and the ability to switch back & forth between controls.  I like your description of two trains running, the staging aspect of the yard and the potential sequence of operation.

I would be so grateful to see a sketch of your thoughts.  Maybe take a picture of a sketch and upload it.  Someone else was suggesting I put a picture directly on my post and not a link but for the life of me I could not figure out how to do that.  I tried everything I could think of (I have an IT background) and I even resorted to reading directions on the forum and could only find the reference to posting a link.  Maybe it is because I was a new user. I apologize if that was inconvenient for anyone.  

Thanks in advance for continued advice and especially if someone was able to sketch out the layout ideas.  Most grateful. I know just enough to be dangerous and make mistakes and hoping this forum can help me reduce those mistakes.


Steve

  • Member since
    April, 2018
  • 4 posts
Posted by scarpwi on Monday, April 16, 2018 10:37 PM

Thank you for your suggestion.  I appreciate it and will consider rebuilding though I would prefer to keep my layout and expand it as originally noted.  Thanks again

 

Steve

  • Member since
    April, 2018
  • 4 posts
Posted by scarpwi on Monday, April 16, 2018 10:41 PM

Thank you Henry.  I apologize for the pictures.  I too agree with pictures in the forum but I could not figure out how to do that after trying several things, I read the help section and they explicitly told me I had to link to another site.  Actually the palm tree is exactly where I hope to expand.  (the SW portion of the layout).  That is just leftover art from my years ago... teenagers!  I agree that I have to much track with tight turns.  My goal is to expand and do it a bit better without tearing apart what I have at this point.  I will consider that suggestion but at this point I was looking for advice for expansion.  I was thinking something longer and narrower to the SW where I could have a yard as another member suggested and more distance.  I could work on improving my modeling skills and more interesting railroad.  A little rework is fine of course to accomodate the expansion but I don't want to start from scratch. I hope this is helpful clarification.  If it were possible to get an idea sketched on a piece of paper and a picture uploaded of said sketch, that would be ideal!  Thank in advance for your thoughtful expertise!

Steve

  • Member since
    July, 2009
  • From: somerset, nj
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Posted by gregc on Tuesday, April 17, 2018 5:01 PM

scarpwi
I would be so grateful to see a sketch of your thoughts.

 

greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading

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    December, 2015
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Posted by BigDaddy on Tuesday, April 17, 2018 5:40 PM

scarpwi
I read the help section and they explicitly told me I had to link to another site.

  It also suggested imgur or flickr because they work on this site and Facebook, google and dropbox don't.  They are also free.

Greg posted a reasonable solution to adding track.  Human reach is considered to be 2' so it doesn't need to be any wider than that.  As you have realized, that is a problem on your 4x8, if there is a derailment.  

I honestly don't know what to suggest for the middle of the layout.  I'm not a fan of 15" radius but with the turnouts and crossings, removing one track has consequences all around the layout. 

The road, which has a varying width definiely needs to be redone, and a darker asphalt color would make imperfections lless obvious

 

 

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

By the Chesapeake Bay

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    July, 2006
  • From: Phoenix, AZ
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Posted by bearman on Tuesday, April 17, 2018 6:08 PM

It might be possible to take the existing layout, modify it to eliminate the 15" curves and then add Greg's suggestion somewhat along the lines of the MRR Black River Junction layout.  However it all depends on if modification of the existing layout is in the works or only a straight expansion.  And, the layout should be moved out two feet lengthwise to be able to get in along the wall.

Bear "It's all about having fun."

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