Since this forum seems to have no search option to search subjects, I'll have to re-ask the question.
What are the preferred layout design software packages available?
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
Using the search function, these recent threads appear:http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/t/267464.aspxhttp://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/267286.aspx
There are many more.
Good luck with your layout.
I have an opinion and it is mine.
I like XtrakCad. It's Shareware, and constantly being updated. There are decent tutorials and I found it pretty easy to learn. I have also used Atlas (free) and 3rd Plan-it and well, I'm still using XtrakCAD.
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
I also like XtrakCad. Its free, very accurate, has good help and tutorials and also specific manufacturer's turnouts. For me it was a bit of a learning curve but much faster and accurate then using pencil and paper.
I have dabbled with Atlas but I think the good old pen(cil) and paper method is superior for early work... what I mean is sketch up what you want on paper then use a CAD program to finalize... just a suggestion...
Steve
If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!
NWP SWPI think the good old pen(cil) and paper method is superior for early work... what I mean is sketch up what you want on paper then use a CAD program to finalize... just a suggestion..
I would so much disagree. Think of it like a word processor. Would you write your term paper on a legal tablet, including quotes from the internet, then type them into word processor to make it look pretty and to do a final spell check.
Composing a layout on layout software is so much easier than drawing. For instance you can draw a yard in 30 seconds--stub or double-ended. You want that yard to curve out onto your penninsula, okay another 30 seconds.
You do this all the while the program is keeping you from doing things that won't work due to physicis, or do meet your own standards (e.g. 24" radius curves.) It can calculates grades and elevations. And in the case of XtrkCAD has a library of just about every turnout ever manufactured that you can plop wherever you need them. IF that's not good enough you can design a custom turnout.
Plus: You can place your rolling stock and engines on the track and run them. You can see if things are working like you planned them. Will your trains fit? Can you get by 8 cars on your runaround?
Atlas Software was rudamentary in the 1990's. Things have come a long way since then.
I didn't know things were that advanced! Perhaps I'm just not that good with computers...
Sounds like something worth investing in though...
CadRail is my design software of choice.
Mark P.
Website: http://www.thecbandqinwyoming.comVideos: https://www.youtube.com/user/mabrunton
Love the raging debate between software and pencil-paper. I used both and found that they have different advantages. The Atlas is great for certain things, but for the new layout, I used SCARM. It also is free and offers a library of different manufacturers. There is a learning curve but you can watch videos before jumping in.
I like with SCARM the ability to change elevations, add notes, bridges, and even benchwork dimensions (cue the ohhhs, and ahhhs!). In short, it's worth checking out and deciding what works.
I subscribe to the axiom that you get what you pay for. If you're only going to do a one time small layout, maybe the freebies are OK. If you get as much enjoyment from track planning as building, then invest in the better programs. For my money, nothing beats 3rd Plan-It.
Ray
Colorado RayFor my money, nothing beats 3rd Plan-It.
I bought 3rd Plan-It 15 years ago. Switched to XtrkCAD. Maybe 3rd Plan-It is better now.
But costing money is not a basis for quality. Microsoft Office costs a bundle. Open Office (made by the Apache group-UNIX) is free and runs circles around it. It even can work on MS documents seemlessly.
I did try XTrack but this was after using 3rd PlanIt, and the lack of the verticla aspect, other than being able to set elevations, ie, no way to actually visualize them, quickly ended that experiment and I stuck with 3rd PlanIt. Get used to the layers features and it becaomes amazingly powerful in comparing alternative approaches to the same space. For my two previosu layouts, I even drew all the benchwork, and though I didn't cut the wood right from the plan, the end result look amazingly like the actual layout. I've also drawn other non-railroad things, like the L shaped hobby bench I built, one arm is for electronics, the other arm is for modeling. It's nice being able to 'walk' around the design in 3D and see what it looks like. ANd this has been a feature since the beginning - I think the first time I started using it was around 16 years ago.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
rrinkerI did try XTrack but this was after using 3rd PlanIt, and the lack of the verticla aspect, other than being able to set elevations, ie, no way to actually visualize them, quickly ended that experiment and I stuck with 3rd PlanIt. Get used to the layers features and it becaomes amazingly powerful in comparing alternative approaches to the same space. For my two previosu layouts, I even drew all the benchwork, and though I didn't cut the wood right from the plan, the end result look amazingly like the actual layout.
I agree with Randy. 3rdPlanIt is a very powerful layout design program and it is well worth the cost. I have used it to design two layouts. The first was my own and it allowed me to figure out all my mistakes and get all the details worked out. The second was for our club's new layout and it has made a very complex task relatively easy. In particular, we faced a challenge in terms of how to transfer the plan into 1:1 dimensions for positioning the cookie cutter components. It turned out to be a simple task. We chose a 0"-0" starting point and measured the horizontal and vertical distances from there. As Randy experienced, the finished result is very close to the plan.
I'll offer the same advice that I did on the OSB thread - you get what you pay for!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
So I;m lookking at 3rdPlanIt to design my first layout. Downloaded the trial and started going through the tutorial. STOP!! Their tutorial looks very different than what I'm getting on screen. Seems the tutorial is way outdated. In the new version I have (11.03 64bit) has a different Tools Menu and there is no Terrian Editor to be found. So I hit a brick wall in my first hour.
Who is the 3rdPlanIt guru here who can help me through this issue? On their site the last Manual/Tutorial is version 10 and still looks just like the tutorial I'm getting for version 11.
kenbeno I;m lookking at 3rdPlanIt to design my first layout. Downloaded the trial and started going through the tutorial. STOP!!
Hi kenben:
I'd suggest contacting 3rdPlanIt directly. I am a long time user and I have contacted them several times about various issues. They have always gotten back to me quickly and they have always been able to address my issues.
I will add that I am very satisfied with the software. I have recently used it to design my club's new layout and the program's capabilities are impressive.
Cheers!!
There is also SCARM, an internet freebie.
Bear "It's all about having fun."
kenben So I;m lookking at 3rdPlanIt to design my first layout. Downloaded the trial and started going through the tutorial. STOP!! Their tutorial looks very different than what I'm getting on screen. Seems the tutorial is way outdated. In the new version I have (11.03 64bit) has a different Tools Menu and there is no Terrian Editor to be found. So I hit a brick wall in my first hour. Who is the 3rdPlanIt guru here who can help me through this issue? On their site the last Manual/Tutorial is version 10 and still looks just like the tutorial I'm getting for version 11.
The Terrain Menu hasn't changed - I have 10.06. After you place a mesh, you double click on the edge of it and that puts you in a 3D view with the terrain editor active.
Randy, after I placed the mesh and double-clicked on the corner of it, it only brings up a master menu. It appears this "new" master menu, which does have the Tool Menu listed, but there is no Terrain Editor to be found.
I have contected 3rdPlanIt and waiting for their answer. The tutorial that they have is too different to follow with the laster version.
I've drawn layouts with pencil, and I've drawn it with CAD, and CAD has it all over the pencil drawings (and went to an engineering college and took paper & CAD drafting courses).
Sure, by all means sketch it out on paper if you want to. That's one of the basics in drafting is to sketch it out first, mark up the sketch, then draw it for real. But in this case, sketch it, then just put it into CAD. It's just so much better. You haven't lived until you need to move a pencil-drawn freight yard over 1" and have to erase then re-draw 8 track centers when in CAD it would take mere seconds to do.
One of other the major issues in pencil drawings for layout design is the scale you have to work with. Generally speaking, 1"=12" is pretty common because most if not all the templates for model railroaders are 1"=12".
So, at that scale, a typical mechanical pencil with of 0.5mm is almost a 1/4". That's almost half the width of the track gauge in HO terms. How can you be accurate when even 1/16" is too much of a variable? Just getting to be accurate to the width of a railhead requires pencil accuracy of 0.005". Good luck with that.
Meanwhile, CAD is accurate to a bunch of decimal places (AutoCAD used to be 16 places). It won't let you cheat or fudge anything. You can blow it up or scale it down and it will always be accurate.
As for my experience with 3rdPlanIt, I highly recommend it. I've used it to plan out the back steps of my house, electrical wiring diagrams, bookshelves, and many other projects. I built a 25' x 50' layout with it on my own, and I am the Layout Design Chairman at my club where we're building a 6300 sq. ft. layout. It's a great little CAD program. And while the learning curve can be steep, it is worth it.
I tried the Atlas version and it did not meet my needs. I just wanted a simple way to lay my track (N scale Kato) to make sure all the pieces worked OK in the space I was working with. In the end, I went with RR-Track and it met all my needs. It has features like landscaping and elevation changes but I had no interest in those features since my layout represents South central OK...aka flat.
Paul D
N scale Washita and Santa Fe RailroadSouthern Oklahoma circa late 70's
I have done pencil sketches of layouts for many years. Nothing serious until now. And I have work on many CAD systems in occupations most of my life. So CAD design for HO design is the path to take.
I called 3rdPlanIt and they were very helpful at answering my questions. So I will be pushing forward with it and learning it and developing my layout.
Scarm is free to try with up to 100 track pieces. It's no longer free to go beyond that. The price is fair. Also, there's a model train simulator that can be used with it that is quite effective in helping to determine if your track plan will handle operations the way you want. It's interesting to make up a 20 to 40 car train and watch it navigate the layout, or watch a yard engine make up those trains. With scarm this can all be done in a day. Scarm is super easy to learn and will do everything you need to plan a layout. The other CAD programs are more powerful, no question. It comes down to whether you want to spend an hour learning how to use the software fluently, or spend weeks in training before getting your actual planning started. If you want the most miniscule details planned out before starting actual construction, you may find scarm a bit underwhelming. I find scarm so simple to use that I can try several different designs in an afternoon, view them in 3D, and then run train simulations on them to see how well they look in motion, as well as how well desired operations can be performed. I save the detail work for the actual model railroad. Let's face it, ideas are going to keep running through your mind even after you start laying track. Get a basic plan going with minimum radiuses, maximum grades, yard layouts, etc. Then go buy lumber and enjoy. BTW, I designed custom furniture using AutoCad for many years. I learned nothing gets done while you're playing excessively with CAD software, which is a trap that happens often. Find out what the client wants, get the correct dimensions, get the basic design, and start building. Modify as necessary. Nothing on a computer screen is going to look the same in real life.
The problem with trying to pick a CAD system to help design my layout is it seems nobody has any good video tutorials. Reading manuals is a pain with lots of trials and errors. I'm visual and learn much faster with training videos. Most I find are just sectional track layouts and skip all over the map. It would be great if one of these software companies had a complete comprehensive video tutorials that covers all layout options.
I find some layout plans that I like in MR that I'd like to modify to fit my space and operational desires.
I no longer have any of my old "drafting" gear and templates to do paper plans. I'd have to buy all that, if it's even available.
Just getting very frustraited at the starting gate. I need to get some good training to get my design layed out (on computer is preferred).