We made ours easier - instead of carrying each section (and ours builds to a HUGE layout if we put all parts in - something like 28x160+ feet), they are carried in wheeled carts. It takes 3 trailers PLUS space in the beds of the pulling pickup trucks to carry the whole thing. We now roll out a cart of modules on industrial casters to right where the modules on it will get set up, just lift off, extend the legs, and go. The old way, we used to have to carry each module, which depending on the size takes 2 to 4 people, from the parking lot into the venue, and it took hours to set up a much smaller layout. Now 2 people can handle a cart with as many as 6 modules on it, and it takes far less time to set up an even larger layout. Then there are the nice big venues where we can drive right in and offload the carts right by the setup area, and don't have to move them very far.
The carts are very simple, pretty much all 2x4 construction with big heavy duty casters, 2 swivel and 2 fixed. Rails on the sides, like drawer slides, hold th models. Some are simply inclined to keep the model in, others have a detachable brace across the front to keep the model from sliding out in transport. Some of the older modules that use bolts to hold together when set up, we simply drilled a hole in the side piece and stick a bolt in to hold it. The size of the rack is determined by what fits in the trailer, and how many modules fit on a rack depend on the height of the modules.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Randy,
Our portable layout isn't quite that large! It is 6' x 12' and is composed of nine modeles, each 2' x 4'. It is moved in two roughly 2' x 4' x 5' plywood boxes, also on casters. Each box holds four modules, and the last module rides on top. Originally the layout was set up using the two boxes as supports, but recently we built three tables to support the modules. The original setup was too high in the air for most younger kids to see. Everything fits into one small trailer. Set up and take down takes about 20 minutes.
The biggest challenge that we have with it is that it doesn't like to be set up on uneven floors. If it isn't level, we suffer derailments where the modules meet. It has also required a lot of rebuilding and rewiring even though it is only about eight years old. It was designed to be light weight for obvious reasons, but the construction doesn't like the temperature changes that it goes through when it is in the trailer.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Hi gang,
I have started a dialogue amongst the club Executive Committee about the question of the long term survival of the club. In the past we have been paying our bills with funds from our annual show and sale, and with membership fees. That has worked well for us for many years. However, given that the hobby is aging, it is predictable that the show, and perhaps the club, will diminish in size over time. Obviously if the show shrinks then so will our revenues.
In light of this reality, I suggested that we consider the possibility of expanding the show to include other hobbies. RC planes and cars come to mind immediately, and there is always the possibility of attracting some war gamers.
Right off the start, the logistics present quite a challenge. Expanding the show will require a lot more work and that takes manpower. We are already limited in that regard, so the question is where do we get more bodies? If we invite other clubs to take part they will obviously want a share of the gate. That begs the question of whether or not our share of the revenues will increase enough to justify all the work of organizing a larger show. It also presents the risk of higher losses if the show fails, as it could well do in Barrie in mid Feburary if the weather sticks it to us.
The other option is to stay with what we have been doing for the past 50 years and milk the system until it runs dry. Change is inevitable, so maybe I should reconcile myself to the fact that the club may eventually die. I just hope that I go first!
Does anyone have any suggestions about how to plan for the future?
Cheers!!
Are there other train shows held locally by others? As in, what's your competition in the model trains only market. The group (not a model railroad club) that runs one of the local shows here has somehow managed to continue to survive despite some rather underhanded dealings with vendors, and the vendors all seem to put up with it because there is simply no other show at that time. The one time a group led by a local club tried to organize a competing show, though not on the same weekend, not even close, these guys basically threatened any of their regulars that if they bough tables at this new show, they wouldn;t be welcome back to their show, so the new show quickly fizzled. Shame is, it was a MUCH nice venue, easier to get to, much more parking, and no having to pass single file between tables because they cram them in so close. The long time show guys were, of course, careful to not come right out and say this in so many words, or put anything in writing, which could have gotten them in legal trouble.
I'm not suggesting you become a new mafia don How would that work in Canada anyway, to politely threaten someone to pay up their protection money? But if the show does well, with not a lot of competition to get vendors, I'd stay targeted to model railroading (or related stuff, most of the shows around here have railroadania vendors and related items like shirts/mugs with railroad logos) and see if you can't attract even more vendors. As expenses go up, you might have to raise the table price a bit. As long as the vendors feel they can still make a decent profit, they won't run off to another show instead. It wouldn't be much, but every little bit helps. And the more vendors you can attract, hopefully the better the turnout, which attracts even more for the next show.
rrinker Are there other train shows held locally by others? As in, what's your competition in the model trains only market.
Randy:
There are a variety of Model Train shows within a 75 mile radius of each other in Southern Ontario.
Bowmanville in October, Whitby in November, Belleville in December, Barrie in Feb., and Lindsay in April all spring to mind.
Plus Toronto Convention Centre, and west of Toronto at various times.
We don't consider the other shows as competitors, but rather as friends. Most clubs who host shows all take part in some other shows, and have a table of flyers for shows we both attend and don't attend.
Well, they are all a month or more apart, so I wouldn't consider that competition either. If I considered shows within 75 miles of here, I'd have to include Timonium which gets mentioned a lot around here, the one I mentioned in my last message, and a couple others nearby. None at the same time. It's just that the one mentioned seems to think they own the city they are in and will tolerate no competition, even though their shows are Fall and Spring. What they are is afraid, because all it takes is a more comfortable venue where atendees can actually stand and look at what each vendor is selling without constatly being jostled and they are done, no vendor would keep coming back. For those that have been to Timonium but not this one, imagine if the aisles at Timonium were half as wide as they are. You can't really stop and talk with a vendor, even in the middle of a transaction you might get shuffled halfway down the table. A more open and relaxed environment would surely drive more sales. I haven't been to this show in years, the overcrowding just drives me nuts.
Hi Randy,
Competition from other shows isn't an issue. There is nothing else happening within a couple of months of our show.
Attracting more vendors might be a challenge. Most of the vendors who are within a reasonable distance of Barrie already attend the show. There are a couple of vendors that we know of who aren't willing to come to Barrie in the middle of winter despite the fact that the show is quite well attended. We have invited them more than a few times but they aren't interested. Barrie has a reputation for bad winter weather which it doesn't really deserve. The weather for our last three shows has been sunny and clear. We always have a couple of new vendors every year but most of them are individuals looking to sell their private collections.
Aisle space is dictated by the fire codes, and the local Fire Marshal is a stickler for following the rules to the letter. All the aisles are minimum 8' wide and they have to be straight. The aisles run both north-south and east-west so it is reasonably easy to get around the show. It does get a little crowded by about 11:00 on the Saturday morning but people can still move around. Any bottle necks are usually caused by parents with the double wide strollers.
We could make the show much bigger in the venue that we are using, but the added cost isn't justifiable unless we attract a bunch more vendors. Last year we didn't have to turn anyone away.
Sounds like you are doing just fine the way it is then, if there is high attendence. That keeps the vendors happy (if enough of them buy). There's another show near me that always was known for having lots of hi-rail and tinplate, but there was plenty of scale stuff too. The last time I went, there was very little scale stuff, and plenty of tables selling all sorts of non-train stuff. I haven't been back to compare attendence, and I didn;t always go year after year, usually it was one of those "well, I'm not doing anything else this morning" type of things. I don't know if adding all the non-train stuff has helped or hurt them, but I was always on the dence and not a regular simply because there was so much hi-rail stuff that i wasn't really interested in. So consider that - branching out may actually turn people away instead of bringing in more. If you're drawing solid crowds and a solid group of vendors year over year, I'd keep going the way you are. Take hearsay for what it's worth, but if you have a demonstrable decline in attendence not explainable by weather or other events outside your control - then consider alternatives.
If you do end up having to expand the horizons a bit - sonsider keeping the non-train stuff apart from the train stuff. This is something I always liked about Timonium, it's an all-scales show, so you get all the scale stuff as well as tinplate and hi-rail, but they keep the tinplate and hi-rail and large scale and, a couple of times, REALLY large scale, apart from the scale stuff. I end up looking at it all anyway, but if I were there for only scale trains, I wouldn;t have to wander past table after table of stuff I wasn;t interested in, and likewise if I was there for some hi-rail stuff, I wouldn;t have to go past all those tables to scale stuff trying to find what I was looking for. At least, that's how they used to do it, I actually haven't been there in a few years to see if the new show runners have kept to the same formula or not.
rrinkerSo consider that - branching out may actually turn people away instead of bringing in more.
Very good point!
rrinkerconsider keeping the non-train stuff apart from the train stuff.
Another good point!
The club's response has been cool to expanding the show. The concensus is that we will deal with the problem if and when it becomes a problem. At least, if anything, we will have an idea of what to do if we do end up needing more revenue.
Thanks for your input.
Strange how second thoughts can come back to haunt you.
Tuesday night we finally got around to sorting through the buildings, cars and other bits that have been donated to the club. There were about 10 large boxes containing built structures, unopened kits and rolling stock.
I must be picky. Most of the assembled stuff fell under my definition of 'junk'. There were some scratch built structures mostly made out of fluorescent ceiling light lenses. They were hideous! There were probably 25 assembled buildings of the DPM kit style. Almost all of them had obvious gaps at the joints and had glue all over the place. None of them had been painted. They were just slapped together right out of the package. There were about 40 cars. We saved four of them. I'm sure you are getting the picture!
We decided to save some of the 'Main Street' style buildings. I'm not sure why because we don't have any space for a Main Street scene. The rest we will try to sell for a couple of bucks each at our show in February. If they don't sell they will be going to the dump.
Now the reason behind my opening sentence. When we first moved into the new clubhouse 2 1/2 years ago we said that we would not accept any donations for the simple reason that we didn't have the space to store them. However, after seeing the first couple of offerings a couple of the guys decided that we could make a few bucks from this stuff and so we changed our decision. Fast forward to last Tuesday night. With all this crap spread out over just about every flat surface we could find, including four folding tables, there was hardly room to move! After going through everything we still had 10 boxes of stuff that we had no space for, although granted it was all nicely sorted now. I think the only things that will actually end up on the layout are a few small shantys and the four box cars! Other than the unopened kits, I doubt that we will get $100.00 for the rest of it!
Just so you know, I decided to not point out the mess that the clubhouse was in.
We got some good news on Friday about the venue that we rent for our February show and sale.
The first thing was that the hosts are giving us quite a bit more space than what we had anticipated without increasing the rent! The extra space will allow us to widen the aisles to about 10' or more, and it will allow us to have more space around the display layouts.
The second bit of good news is that our hosts can now supply the barriers that we need to put up around the show. The show is held in a huge greenhouse, but we only take up about 1/3rd of the total area. That means that we have to put up something to control the access to the show. We were looking at renting crowd control barriers but that would have set us back almost $1000. That's a big chunk of our profits! Now, they won't cost us anything!
The third bit of news is that we were concerned that we wouldn't be able to get power to all of the vendors and exhibitors who need it. Our hosts said very simply "tell us where you need power and you will have power". That will mean that they will have to drop about 20 power cords from the 25' ceiling because the Fire Marshal won't allow unprotected cords to be run across the floor, and buying enough cord protectors would be costly.
We are happy campers!! Our hosts have saved us close to $1400 in potential expenses.
Dave,
That is great news! Seems they appreciate your business as much as you appreciate their hospitality.
Mike
Water Level RouteThat is great news! Seems they appreciate your business as much as you appreciate their hospitality.
They should appreciate our business! We estimate that they will get at least $20,000 in sales in their own gift shop and greenhouse over the two days. That is based on 1/4 of our paying visitors spending an average of $35.00 on greenhouse and gift products in their store. It might be much higher!
We also give our visitors a coupon worth $6.00 off of a minimum $30.00 purchase in the greenhouse shops and the visitors love it! That certainly offers something for the ladies who might not otherwise attend our show. That draws people in to the greenhouse shop.
We also spend about $1500.00 on radio ads which obviously mention the greenhouse.
We also give them a share of the admission revenue above a certain attendance level. The greenhouse doesn't seem to mind that at all.
Now, before any of you start suggesting that we are giving them too sweet a deal, you have to remember a few facts:
- One is that they have not increased our rental costs in over 6 years.
- The second is that they have increased the space that we can use this year (2020) by about 33% for the same $ as the last six years.
- The third is that they are letting us use their crowd control barriers at no charge which is saving us about $1000.00.
- The fourth is that they are willing to put power drops wherever we need them in the greenhouse space. That is no small task! The ceilings are 25' high.
- The fifth fact is that there is only one other suitable venue in the area. Georgian College has a similar space available but at a much higher cost and they don't offer the alternate attraction that the greenhouse does. Also, they charge for parking and their parking lots aren't big enough to begin with. To add insult to injury, when we approached them a few years ago their attitude was 'take it or leave it'. We left it.
All in, we are getting a fair deal, and most importantly we are meeting or exceeding our net revenue goals.
Cheers guys!!
WOW!!
64046 views!! 882 posts!! I am amazed!!
I think I deserve an award. How about the "Forum Member With The Most Verbal Diarrhea!" since most the posts are likely mine,
Thanks for everyone's interest!
I think the top number of posts still belongs to our missed friend Jeffrey (Running Bear). Years ago, we were running neck to neck in post count, but then I was away for a few years and not active and he became more active, and it would be a long time bfore anyone catches up with him.
Now if you mean in a single thread...
I have to admire your ability to stick to it. If you look at my web site, BOTH times I tried to maintain steady updates on the progress of the layout I was building, I eventually sort of gave up and only updated at rather infrequent intervals. It starts out great, both times, pretty much a new update every night or at least every weekend I got to work on the layout - then there are gaps of a year. The sad thing is, there wasn;t much change in either layout over that year with no updates. Hopefully I can do better this time. Maybe even do some video. But I am not going to appear on camera, and when I hear myself on a video or audio recording I cringe, not sure anyone would want to actually hear me blab on. But the time is coming - basically just have to finish the floor, then it's time to get detailed measurements and hope the contractor can start sooner rather than later on the walls. Might be pushing but I'd love to start benchwork by the end of January.
rrinkerI have to admire your ability to stick to it.
Thanks Randy.
I'm not sure how much people are gaining from my club related thread but every time I post there are a couple hundred more views so somebody is interested.
I wish I was more active with my camera. I have a fear of boring people with repetitive shots, but I could do a better job of keeping up with developments like the construction of the first tunnel. I'll take the camera on Tuesday.
Even if you don't post them here, having the pictures would be interesting for the club. Both to show new members, and to show the public just how far you've come. A series of boards on easels or hung on the walls, with pictures from a given time, showing the progress from the empty space to the layout as it exists today would be a big hit with visitors.
hon30critterI wish I was more active with my camera. I have a fear of boring people with repetitive shots, but I could do a better job of keeping up with developments like the construction of the first tunnel. I'll take the camera on Tuesday.
I won't speak for anyone else, but I'm one that has been following, and I am never bored by pictures. They don't have to be professional quality -- I just love looking at what others are doing. Keep up the good work!
York1 John
rrinker Even if you don't post them here, having the pictures would be interesting for the club. Both to show new members, and to show the public just how far you've come. A series of boards on easels or hung on the walls, with pictures from a given time, showing the progress from the empty space to the layout as it exists today would be a big hit with visitors.
Fortunately, we had a member who took tons of pictures of the initial stages of the layout construction. When he left the club to pursue other interests he gave me a memory chip with more than 500 images on it! Granted, many of them were more or less duplicate shots, but nonetheless we have a whole lot of pictures of the initial benchwork and roadbed being built.
I will have to get into the habit of taking lots of pictures. I need to un-learn my reluctance to take lots of photographs. Both my parents had the attitude that you didn't dare waste a piece of film. They never took spontaneous shots. Every shot was posed, painfully I might add! You can only hold a smile for so long!
Yes, those where the days, when you had to wait to see if they even came out - really so in the slides I have that my Dad took of various trips, since his camera was a simple Kodak 35mm that was completely manual and no throught he lens viewing. It was all a matter of calculation and skill to get a good shot. Even later on with a Polaroid - that film was ALWAYS expensive.
Today with digital though, just bracket every shot, take 4 or 5 of everything, which can be done automatically by many cameras, and then a few minutes later stick the card in your computer and keep the ones that turned out the best.
York1I won't speak for anyone else, but I'm one that has been following, and I am never bored by pictures. They don't have to be professional quality -- I just love looking at what others are doing. Keep up the good work!
I'm also a steady viewer, and would love to see some pics!
Mike.
My You Tube
Just a quick update on the 2020 Show and Sale:
(Edit: I just realized that some of this is a repeat from previous posts.)
Our hosts, Bradford Greenhouses, have been very obliging with support for the new venue. In the area where the shows have been held previously, we didn't have to worry about crowd barriers. The new location requires us to cordon off a section of a very large space. We thought we would have to rent crowd control barriers but our hosts have acquired their own barriers and they will let us use them for free!
The new space also has relatively few outlets which is obviously a concern. Our hosts have assured us that we will have power drops wherever we need them. According to the Fire Marshal, the power has to either be dropped from the ceiling or the cords have to have approved cord protectors if they are on the floor. The cord protectors are expensive and people can trip on them, so having the power dropped at no additional cost is great!
The vendors tables are about 80% sold so by February we should have a full house.
We have also been able to give the exhibitors as much space as they asked for. One display will have two modular clubs in a combined layout. They asked for 20' x 46' and we were able to give it to them. That wouldn't have been possible last February.
I took some pictures on Tuesday night as requested.
One of our members has been working on background buildings. We now have about seven feet of 3D structures. They will get interior and exterior lighting, and of course, lots of details:
The roundhouse tracks are mostly in and wired:
The brewery scene is running. We deliberately made it more complex than would be realistic in order to provide some switching fun:
This is the wee beastie that will switch the brewery:
We are working on some other scenes. This one may or may not make the grade:
This is the Hearst lumber mill complex. It is definitely a go. Some of the buildings are just foamcore mock ups. The chimney stacks are stolen from a refinery scene but with a little adjusting they will work fine:
This will more or less be the location for the diesel repair/machine shop complex and the paint shop. They will sit on top of an access hatch so will make them easily removable so they can be lifted out of the way before the hatch is opened:
Brian has done a nice job of creating some hills over the first tunnel:
Richard has been working on a rock face that will serve as a background to a 'Main Street' scene. The long vertical rock face isn't exactly realistic, but there isn't enough space between the upper and lower tracks to do much else if we want to fit some buildings, sidewalks and a street into the space. They buildings will be quite shallow:
I got another couple of pieces of Shaper Sheet installed on one of the hills which will be our forestry scene. If you look carefully you can see the outline of the logging road and the switchback. The road will require some smoothing with Hydrocal before the scenery is applied:
That pretty much brings us up to date on the layout progress.
Great photos, Dave. Keep 'em coming.
Can you tell me where your club got those background buildings? I like them a lot.
Rich
Alton Junction
Nice Dave! . I'll have to go back through the thread and find the track plan, so I can see where these scenes are.
Thanks, keep'em coming!
Nice! Thanks for the photos. You guys do good work!
richhotrainCan you tell me where your club got those background buildings? I like them a lot. Rich
most of the buildings are just regular Walthers kits that have been 'flattened out' (I'm not exactly sure which kits were used but the same thing can be done with almost any of them). In other words, the back wall has been installed beside the front wall to make the building twice as long, and then the side walls are cut back to whatever depth fits the scene. In many cases, one end wall can be added to the front/rear wall assembly to make it even longer, and the other end wall can be cut down to form the sides. You can also go two kits high (or more). Flat styrene strips are used to reinforce the butt joints.
A couple of the background buildings are Walthers Background structure kits assembled as designed.
As doctorwayne has admirably demonstrated, if you want bigger buildings use two (or more) kits. One kit in particular that can be used to create large background industrial buildings is Atlas's Middlesex Manufacturing Company. Two kits can make a four story high x 71" x 2 3/4" deep structure, or an eight story x 35 1/2" x 2 3/4" structure. Four kits would be impressive! I believe wayne has a large structure made from the Atlas kits.
https://www.walthers.com/middlesex-manufacturing-co-kit-15-x-5-1-2-quot-38-1-x-14cm
Here is a Proto 2000 kit that I stretched out. I should have purchased two kits and doubled the height. I think they can still be found on eBay:
The original kit:
Here is the current track plan. The background structures are located on the far right (north side). The green line down the middle of the peninsula represents the ridgeline of the hills. The lower right yard is longer than shown and all the tracks connect at the far end to permit run arounds.
hon30critter richhotrain Can you tell me where your club got those background buildings? I like them a lot. Rich most of the buildings are just regular Walthers kits that have been 'flattened out'
richhotrain Can you tell me where your club got those background buildings? I like them a lot. Rich
most of the buildings are just regular Walthers kits that have been 'flattened out'
Oh Joy!!!
We were just informed by the hosts for our February Train Show and Sale that the roof in the new area we will be in leaks in a few spots under certain conditions, namely when the snow is melting. So, if there is snow on the roof and we have a couple of nice sunny days during the show, some of our vendors and exhibitors might get rained on.
We are going to make a trip to the venue when the roof is leaking to mark exactly where the problems are and hopefully we will be able to design the floor plan around them. The roof can't be shovelled. It's glass.
On the plus side, we have rented 90% of the vendor's tables with two months to go, so we should have a full show.