What I was referring to is a crossover, not a double crossover.
It may be that I use #6 turnouts rather than #8 turnouts, and I use Atlas Custom Line turnouts. If you join two #6 Atlas Custom Line turnouts together to form a crossover, the on center distance between the straight through routes in 2 inches. So, the key is to assemble the crossover first and then lay the connecting mainline tracks to the crossover. Where I probably went wrong was to lay the double mainline first and then connect the crossover to the double mainline. When you do it that way, there is a tendency to compress the mainline tracks to attach to the crossover, resulting in a less than straight mainline through the crossover.
Rich
Alton Junction
LION is for the most part 100% Atlas, him is cheap, ewe know. Never a problem. Of course LIONS do not use steamy engines.
CHECK CAREFULLY to be sure locomotive is fully on the track as it approaches the turnout. Frequently a whell is off from elsewhere and puts the whole loco off at the turnout.
THAT SIAD, IT MAY NOT BE THAT ONE BRAND IS A DROP IN REPLACEMENT FOR ANOTHER.
The angle can be the same, or one brand may have fudged a little on the number, or one brand will have a different length of tangent track or a different location of the frog relitive to the tangent track.
Replacement will be a PITA. REPAIR OF THE ISSUE may be the simpler route. Putting more weight (or maybe a stronger spring) on the leading truck might fix it for a lot less frustration and cost.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
I had several Atlas C83 Custom Line #4s that had problems from the package all seven had high points which was easy to fix..On my current ISL I went Peco medium switches and never regretted it.
My next ISL I will use Peco. I just like them better since you don't need to install a horribly oversize ground throw.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
I'm looking at replacing my ground throws with servos meant for model airplanes.
An outfit called Dymond Models sells a very high torque and reasonable priced servo bunch. Buy 10, get one free. Just run cables over to the switches or place the servos under the table at the turnout. Actually less cost than turtle switch machines
I may try a couple of them first and ee how it goes.
I find the greatest source for my steam train derailments is the leading and trailing trucks getting thrown off kilter at an uneven track joint. What I do is inspect the wheels real close as I run through at speed. If necessary use a cell phone app that allows you to make videos in slow motion. A good hint you might have a rough joint is you hear a lot of click click clack as your train runs over it. Run it forward AND backward. With the exception of frogs and points, you should't hear much.I also run my finger over the track joints. If it feels rough, I file it. I then solder it and file it again, before I final 600 grit sanding. I then bright boy and burnish. When i file I do the inside, top, outside. I always check everything with a NMRA gauge.Once I clean up the joints, I can run 2-8-0, 2-8-2, and USRA 2-6-6-2 through all day at a good clip through Atlas snap, custom line #4's and flex track R18s. If you don't believe me I'll show you the video.
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
richhotrain TheK4Kid I do have some of my steam engines that never derail on these switches, but others do. My BLI T4's all derail on some of my Atlas switches. Not sure what a T4 is. Do you mean T1? TheK4Kid I have checked the rails for kinks, etc. My diesels never derail on these switches, just some of my steamers and some of my Bachmann heavyweight passenger cars. I have read of so many "fixes" or "tuneups" on Atlas turnouts, it about drives me nuts! Two local experts told me get rid of your Atlas turnouts , never ever use Atlas switches ( these guys have 30 and 40 years experience). But on here, some guys seem to swear by them and others have the same problems I have. I hate to challenge a model railroader with 30 to 40 years experience, since I have only been in the HO scale side of the hobby 13 years. But, I have to reiterate that I find Atlas Custom Line turnouts to be excellent and nearly 100% trouble free. I have nearly 70 Atlas Custom Line Code 83 and Code 100 #6 turnouts, and I have yet to toss one out. I used to blame the turnouts but, inevitably found flaws in my track work (flex track) leading into the turnouts. TheK4Kid I appreciate the different inputs you guys are giving me.The switches are properly mounted .One problem switch is just after a 22 inch radius curve. In my experience, when a "faulty" turnout is right at the end of a curve, there can be problems but the problems can be attributed to the track preceding the turnout, not the turnout itself. I finally resolved to remove all of my curves, solder the rail joints, and replace the curves on the layout. Removing the kinks at the rail joints greatly improved performance and greatly reduced derailments. Also, you have to be certain that the track feeding into the turnout is perfectly straight. TheK4Kid I have been told also to add some weight to the tops of the leading trucks on some of my steamers. I also noticed on two Atlas switches, the rivets holding parts of them together are somewhat "loosey goosey". Yeah, I have been told that too. At one time, I went nuts adding weight to the pilot trucks and to the trailing trucks on steam engines. I even wrapped solder around the axles of the trucks. Once I fixed my track problems, I no longer needed those weights which made no real difference in the first place. The sheer weight of most HO scale steam locomotives should be sufficient such that additional weight on the trucks is not necessary. TheK4Kid I have a new Bachmann 765 steamer that when it runs with no freight cars or passenger cars it never derails. But put a string of cars behind it,, it derails on one particular switch. That is not an uncommon problem with steam engines. In my experience, the reason for that occurrence is that there are problems with the rolling stock, not the steam engines. Couplers and wheelsets on rolling stock can exert a pulling effect, causing the steam engine to be tugged at, resulting in the engine trailing truck to derail and sometimes pulling down the rear of the engine causing the pilot truck to lift up off the rails. The solution is to fix the rolling stock. TheK4Kid This evening one of my "old timer" friends came by and looked at several of my switches, and found no problems on the approach to the switches giving me the worst problems, but told me "just quit using Atlas switches and replace them with Peco switches" He agrees with me that Atlas turnouts are junk, and I got a email from a club member over in Pennsylvania who said Atlas switches are junk and they never use them on their club layout, I just simply have to disagree. Atlas Custom Line turnouts are not junk. They may require some maintenance depending upon the nature of the problem, but as I already mentioned, the problems are more likely attributable to the track leading into the turnout as well as the rolling stock. TheK4Kid I have some guys telling me to never fasten an Atlas switch down firmly in place, more or less let it float to others who say make sure they are securely fastened in place. I find that "floating" turnout is a myth when it comes to performance. Turnouts are intricate pieces of track work with moving parts. Turnouts require a stable basis and they should be secured to that base. Otherwise, turnouts do not remain level and even across the rails. TheK4Kid I can vary the approach speeds and a steamer won't derail, come around a second time at the same speed and it derails. The reason for this apparent inconsistency is attributable to what goes on before the steam engine reaches the turnout. Trouble shooting can be challenging and time consuming when this inconsistency occurs. What I do is to watch the steam engine before the turnout, not at the turnout. Inevitably, one or more wheels derail somewhere before the turnout, and then I have to find the cause. It could be the pilot truck, the driver wheels, or the trailing truck. The question is, which and why. You have done a good job so far in evaluating the problem and communicating that problem to us. Don't give up and don't toss your Atlas turnouts. Find the problems and fix them. Incidentally, you may also notice that similar problems occur with your diesels. Usually, four axle diesels will traverse turnouts where six axle diesels have problems. Keep us posted. Rich
TheK4Kid I do have some of my steam engines that never derail on these switches, but others do. My BLI T4's all derail on some of my Atlas switches.
I do have some of my steam engines that never derail on these switches, but others do. My BLI T4's all derail on some of my Atlas switches.
Not sure what a T4 is. Do you mean T1?
TheK4Kid I have checked the rails for kinks, etc. My diesels never derail on these switches, just some of my steamers and some of my Bachmann heavyweight passenger cars. I have read of so many "fixes" or "tuneups" on Atlas turnouts, it about drives me nuts! Two local experts told me get rid of your Atlas turnouts , never ever use Atlas switches ( these guys have 30 and 40 years experience). But on here, some guys seem to swear by them and others have the same problems I have.
I have checked the rails for kinks, etc. My diesels never derail on these switches, just some of my steamers and some of my Bachmann heavyweight passenger cars. I have read of so many "fixes" or "tuneups" on Atlas turnouts, it about drives me nuts! Two local experts told me get rid of your Atlas turnouts , never ever use Atlas switches ( these guys have 30 and 40 years experience). But on here, some guys seem to swear by them and others have the same problems I have.
I hate to challenge a model railroader with 30 to 40 years experience, since I have only been in the HO scale side of the hobby 13 years. But, I have to reiterate that I find Atlas Custom Line turnouts to be excellent and nearly 100% trouble free. I have nearly 70 Atlas Custom Line Code 83 and Code 100 #6 turnouts, and I have yet to toss one out. I used to blame the turnouts but, inevitably found flaws in my track work (flex track) leading into the turnouts.
TheK4Kid I appreciate the different inputs you guys are giving me.The switches are properly mounted .One problem switch is just after a 22 inch radius curve.
I appreciate the different inputs you guys are giving me.The switches are properly mounted .One problem switch is just after a 22 inch radius curve.
In my experience, when a "faulty" turnout is right at the end of a curve, there can be problems but the problems can be attributed to the track preceding the turnout, not the turnout itself. I finally resolved to remove all of my curves, solder the rail joints, and replace the curves on the layout. Removing the kinks at the rail joints greatly improved performance and greatly reduced derailments. Also, you have to be certain that the track feeding into the turnout is perfectly straight.
TheK4Kid I have been told also to add some weight to the tops of the leading trucks on some of my steamers. I also noticed on two Atlas switches, the rivets holding parts of them together are somewhat "loosey goosey".
I have been told also to add some weight to the tops of the leading trucks on some of my steamers. I also noticed on two Atlas switches, the rivets holding parts of them together are somewhat "loosey goosey".
Yeah, I have been told that too. At one time, I went nuts adding weight to the pilot trucks and to the trailing trucks on steam engines. I even wrapped solder around the axles of the trucks. Once I fixed my track problems, I no longer needed those weights which made no real difference in the first place. The sheer weight of most HO scale steam locomotives should be sufficient such that additional weight on the trucks is not necessary.
TheK4Kid I have a new Bachmann 765 steamer that when it runs with no freight cars or passenger cars it never derails. But put a string of cars behind it,, it derails on one particular switch.
I have a new Bachmann 765 steamer that when it runs with no freight cars or passenger cars it never derails. But put a string of cars behind it,, it derails on one particular switch.
That is not an uncommon problem with steam engines. In my experience, the reason for that occurrence is that there are problems with the rolling stock, not the steam engines. Couplers and wheelsets on rolling stock can exert a pulling effect, causing the steam engine to be tugged at, resulting in the engine trailing truck to derail and sometimes pulling down the rear of the engine causing the pilot truck to lift up off the rails. The solution is to fix the rolling stock.
TheK4Kid This evening one of my "old timer" friends came by and looked at several of my switches, and found no problems on the approach to the switches giving me the worst problems, but told me "just quit using Atlas switches and replace them with Peco switches" He agrees with me that Atlas turnouts are junk, and I got a email from a club member over in Pennsylvania who said Atlas switches are junk and they never use them on their club layout,
This evening one of my "old timer" friends came by and looked at several of my switches, and found no problems on the approach to the switches giving me the worst problems, but told me "just quit using Atlas switches and replace them with Peco switches" He agrees with me that Atlas turnouts are junk, and I got a email from a club member over in Pennsylvania who said Atlas switches are junk and they never use them on their club layout,
I just simply have to disagree. Atlas Custom Line turnouts are not junk. They may require some maintenance depending upon the nature of the problem, but as I already mentioned, the problems are more likely attributable to the track leading into the turnout as well as the rolling stock.
TheK4Kid I have some guys telling me to never fasten an Atlas switch down firmly in place, more or less let it float to others who say make sure they are securely fastened in place.
I have some guys telling me to never fasten an Atlas switch down firmly in place, more or less let it float to others who say make sure they are securely fastened in place.
I find that "floating" turnout is a myth when it comes to performance. Turnouts are intricate pieces of track work with moving parts. Turnouts require a stable basis and they should be secured to that base. Otherwise, turnouts do not remain level and even across the rails.
TheK4Kid I can vary the approach speeds and a steamer won't derail, come around a second time at the same speed and it derails.
I can vary the approach speeds and a steamer won't derail, come around a second time at the same speed and it derails.
The reason for this apparent inconsistency is attributable to what goes on before the steam engine reaches the turnout. Trouble shooting can be challenging and time consuming when this inconsistency occurs. What I do is to watch the steam engine before the turnout, not at the turnout. Inevitably, one or more wheels derail somewhere before the turnout, and then I have to find the cause. It could be the pilot truck, the driver wheels, or the trailing truck. The question is, which and why.
You have done a good job so far in evaluating the problem and communicating that problem to us. Don't give up and don't toss your Atlas turnouts. Find the problems and fix them. Incidentally, you may also notice that similar problems occur with your diesels. Usually, four axle diesels will traverse turnouts where six axle diesels have problems.
Keep us posted.
I have to agree with almost all that you wrote in reply. I usually found that it was something in my trackwork preceding the turnout that caused the problem I was blaming on the turnout itself.
Its also my understanding that Peco turnouts sometimes need an addition to them. The guard rails in them are usually spaced too wide for our American small flanged wheels. A plastic strip can be added to them if necessary.
Brian
My Layout Plan
Interesting new Plan Consideration
richhotrainI used to blame the turnouts but, inevitably found flaws in my track work (flex track) leading into the turnouts.
And there you have it my friends....
Ok just for fun heres my take on Atlas C100 turnouts.
I have seven of them #4 and number 6 with no 202s Caboose Industries ground throws. They all work fine providing my switch operator remembers to throw the points in the correct position.
Much better than that junk not so EZ track on the first SIW. They have required some tuning and I replaced one because the metal holding the rivet broke. All in all they are fine.
Joe Staten Island West
K4Kid,
Sorry you're having this problem with your Atlas stuff. I used all Atlas c100 track years ago with no issues. Then I started to hand lay my c70 and it was much nicer. Now as I get older I use Walthers/Shinohara c83 for everything. I also have mostly #4 turnouts and have no problems with my brass engines (even my Western Maryland & N&W 4-8-4's) going through them.
Someone said the tracks leading to and from the turnouts can cause issues and he's definitely correct there.
Not being familiar with the recent Atlas Customline stuff I can offer no suggestions but it seems several folks here have experienced the same or similar issues.
Best of luck!
oldline1
Over Center springs for turnouts
How to make Atlas turnouts more reliable 'electrically'. Put an over-center spring in that acts like those on Peco turnoutshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXGEjuDhwhY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rfZpe1LNjk
Atlas TemplatesIs there a website where I can find full size templates for ALL Atlas code 100 turnouts?Peko has some readily available sites to download full size templates of their turnouts for use when track planning.
But everytime I find a site for Atlas turnouts it takes me on a wild goose chase with intermixed track codes, and different models (custom line, etc), etc. I'd like to find a good site to just download full size templates for all of there track code 100 products.
I have a box full of these turnouts somewhere in my storage trailer that I will eventually find. And I have in the past utilized even old brass turnouts to plan out a possible track configuration.
Very cool video.
I will have to try it.
Easiest way to get full size templates for most anything is to use one fo the track plannign programs - even thr free trial of the more advanced ones allow you to print, the limit is usually how many elements you can put in a drawing. Then print at 1:1 (first time, print a line with a set length on the page as well, so you can see if your printer truly does 1:1 or if you need to adjust it a bit). Most of the MRR CAD programs have track libraries covering all the major manufacturers, in most scales.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
[quote user="railandsail"]
Atlas TemplatesIs there a website where I can find full size templates for ALL Atlas code 100 turnouts?
It's not a website, but of you're looking for full size templates, here they are: https://www.amazon.com/Track-Planning-Template-Atlas-Trains/dp/B0006KSMBS
I believe that the track geometry for Atlas code 83 and code 100 components is identical.