so i was watching video on new module layouts using 1x4s and i going to rebuild my layout to make it module but keep the same design and size. so i going to have each section 2 ft by 6 ft. and the stringers will be 16 inchs apart and top will be 7/16 plywood. and hight will be 3 ft tall. now on my current tabletop i sometime crawl to turntable area to move engine and it support me. i wondering how strong is 1x4 with 16 inch stringers?
It will be strong enough to walk on. You just want to make sure you have cross bracing on your legs or else it will be very rickety.
Craig
As long as the legs are braced to prevent folding, 1x4 6ft with 16oc cross members and plywood would allow you to walk across it.
I have to ask,why are you crawing on it?
UNCLEBUTCH...why are you crawling on it?
If you look at the diagram showing the layout in the room, it looks like lots of reasons to need to crawl on it.
I'm guessing that the O.P. doesn't plan on having much in the way of scenery or even structures on the wider portions of the layout - hands and knees scuffing across the tabletop won't be too kind to the track either.
If you're not to far along in your layout construction raptorengineer, you might want to re-think your trackplan and the area occupied by benchwork. It looks like it won't be a lot of fun to build or operate if major portions of it are hard to reach.As for the strength of 1"x4"s, there's a part of my layout's second level which has a 1"x4" front edge, but the 39" long crosspieces are 1"x2"s, and it supports my full weight. I learned that when it was time to paint the rail, and I discovered that while I could reach it, I couldn't see the back (normally unseen) side of the rails. This usually wouldn't be of concern, but I often take layout photos with the camera on the layout, facing towards the aisle, and don't want shiny rails messing up the view. The area of which I'm speaking is at the far end of the aisle in the photo below...
Wayne
The sides of my modules or sections are either L-girder made with 1X4 clear spruce (with the top part of the girder 1X2 or ripped 1X4, whichever I have plenty of...), or just 1X4. All my stilts/legs are 1X2 braced, but also blocked up where they tuck against the framing corners. By blocked I mean a short 4" length of 1X2 is snugged up against the leg on its outside, both flat against the same 1X4. Over both of those, flush against their flat exposed sides as they snuggle, I screw a square of 1X4 flat against them. The small block of 1X2 keeps the leg from rotating in that direction, the corner of the frame prevents its motion the opposite way, and the 1X4 square cap does exactly that...caps it all in the 90 deg direction. A couple of braces and it's very rigid.
Another thing I do to help the whole stay rigid is to drive some 2.5" deck screws through the side frames of the layout, through the drywall, and into studs that I have previously located and marked, but on the exposed side of the 1X4's that are up against the walls. I have commenced laying track on my yard and have had to crawl up onto it. Doesn't budge...at all.
well at this current state of my layout how i made it back then it was nice i guess for first timer in away. i use alot of 2x4s and few 2x6s and uneven plywood witch i even out by useing commercal fiber ceiling tiles and it work out really nice. and since my layout is nothing but e-z track and the trains run well on it. if you want to know how i got woodland grass mat flat like that... double sided carpet tape also i addeding like 3 layer of latex paint on top of fiber ceiling tiles. work amazing.
cool cool. i going to reuse 2x4 legs and look at ways to make them taller by jointing another 2x4. and find way to braces them too.
raptorengineer cool cool. i going ot reuse 2x4 legs and look at ways ot make them taller by jointing another 2x4. and find way ot braces them too.
cool cool. i going ot reuse 2x4 legs and look at ways ot make them taller by jointing another 2x4. and find way ot braces them too.
2x4 legs are overkill but if you want to reuse wood and save on costs, there is no reason you couldn't reuse them to legs. I use 2x2's for benchwork legs, and 1x4 for open grid framing and 1x3's for cross members and 7/16" thick OSB wafer board instead of plywood. The OSB is cheap and cheerful and I've used it on 2 different layouts with great success.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Except for early parts of my layout (I used 2x4s for the benchwork), ALL of my benchwork and legs are made with 1x4s. I used 1x4s to make the L-shaped legs, as well. With X-bracing, it's plenty strong. When I made my 20'x26' expansion, I cut the legs using a tapering jig, giving them a more finished look. I used 2x2s, drilled for T-nuts and bolts to get everything level. Most basements don't have a totally flat floor, so water will drain to the center of the room.
Marlon
See pictures of the Clinton-Golden Valley RR
A 1x4 grid is extremely strong. Absolutely no need for 2x4's. The potential weaknesses are the joints and the leg connections. So I glued and screwed my 1x4 base grid together. And my L-shaped legs are ripped from 1/2" ply using carriage bolts to attach them to the frame. No leg X-bracing is needed and access underneath is very clear for working underneath and storage. In fact I used to slide this whole section around on the carpet and the legs never wobbled at all. This is a very early picture but the leg design was so successful I built the rest of my layout the same way.
Funny thing, my dad was building a layout at the same time and when I went to visit I found he built his legs the same way. We never discussed it before-hand, just had the same exact idea.
Huntington Junction - Freelance based on the B&O and C&O in coal country before the merger... doing it my way. Now working on phase 3. - Walt
For photos and more: http://www.wkhobbies.com/model-railroad/
thanks for all the help. one other question i'm looking at 1'' inch pink foam board for top layout. would foam board leave indents if i have to crawl over to reach something on my layout.
riogrande5761 raptorengineer cool cool. i going ot reuse 2x4 legs and look at ways ot make them taller by jointing another 2x4. and find way ot braces them too. 2x4 legs are overkill but if you want to reuse wood and save on costs, there is no reason you couldn't reuse them to legs. I use 2x2's for benchwork legs, and 1x4 for open grid framing and 1x3's for cross members and 7/16" thick OSB wafer board instead of plywood. The OSB is cheap and cheerful and I've used it on 2 different layouts with great success.
Yes the foam will dent.
HObbyguy A 1x4 grid is extremely strong. Absolutely no need for 2x4's. The potential weaknesses are the joints and the leg connections. So I glued and screwed my 1x4 base grid together. And my L-shaped legs are ripped from 1/2" ply using carriage bolts to attach them to the frame. No leg X-bracing is needed and access underneath is very clear for working underneath and storage. In fact I used to slide this whole section around on the carpet and the legs never wobbled at all. This is a very early picture but the leg design was so successful I built the rest of my layout the same way. Funny thing, my dad was building a layout at the same time and when I went to visit I found he built his legs the same way. We never discussed it before-hand, just had the same exact idea.
It's none of our business but is there a medical reason to have the layout 3' tall?
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
this is the video i saw that got me thinking about redoing my layout table
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc1n7jitv3g&t=377s
BigDaddy It's none of our business but is there a medical reason to have the layout 3' tall?
Live and learn!
If your not really changeing anything, and what you have is working,
Why bother to to tear down and rebuild?
UNCLEBUTCH If your not really changeing anything, and what you have is working, Why bother to to tear down and rebuild?
raptorengineercool i going to bolt the legs to the table. now since each section is 6ft long would it be wise to put 2 legs in middle of 6ft or no? i will add legs at each end of table section.
As long as your 1x4 frame is sound then you don't need additional legs in the middle of a 6' span.
The biggest enemy is leg wobble since that can weaken the whole structure. My solution prevents wobble because there are two bolts connecting the leg to the frame in both directions. Just bolting up 2x4 legs at each corner won't accomplish the same thing. You can always add cross bracing to the straight legs which is the more common solution.
Hi Raptorengineer,
I built my layout (12 x 12 dogbone) using 3/4" and 1/2" plywood. I cut the 3" strips in the 3/4" for framing and cross braces (every 16"). 2x2 for legs and 1/2" plywood for decking. The modules are 30" wide (so I can move out of my basement door if I need to) and roughly 4' to 6' long. The modules are then bolted together - this is a very sturdy build - I can climb on top of the layout if need be.
The use of 3/4" sheets of plywood was my son-in-law's idea, and it worked great. Just cut up a 4 sheets and got to work.
This is an image earlier in the build - I have added additional bracing since.
https://goo.gl/photos/pcFxMoi1XaAsf7BZ6
Steve
stello Hi Raptorengineer, I built my layout (12 x 12 dogbone) using 3/4" and 1/2" plywood. I cut the 3" strips in the 3/4" for framing and cross braces (every 16"). 2x2 for legs and 1/2" plywood for decking. The modules are 30" wide (so I can move out of my basement door if I need to) and roughly 4' to 6' long. The modules are then bolted together - this is a very sturdy build - I can climb on top of the layout if need be. The use of 3/4" sheets of plywood was my son-in-law's idea, and it worked great. Just cut up a 4 sheets and got to work. This is an image earlier in the build - I have added additional bracing since. https://goo.gl/photos/pcFxMoi1XaAsf7BZ6 Steve
so i be getting the wood and making my new tabletop sometime next week. i do have another question abouit 1x4s. now i going to try and fine the straightest wood home depot has. but if i pick some peces that are little uneven will the legs somewhat even it out best it can when standing the table up?
Home Depot may not be the best place to find 'straight' wood. Do you have any lumber mills close to you? Companies that specialize in mouldings often carry poplar dimensional lumber as well. Poplar stays very straight and is knot free. Poplar will be more expensive than what HD offers, but it is so nice to work with that it is worth the extra money.
Another thing that a lumber mill may be able to do for you is rip plywood sheets into 3" or 4" widths. Plywood makes great framing material and it may be more cost effective, although you may have to do a little more work at the joints to make them strong. Home Depot does not have the proper equipment to rip 3" or 4" strips.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
hon30critterHome Depot may not be the best place to find 'straight' wood
Actually, Dave, H-D has a brand called Claymark from New Zealand that is pretty nice. Of course the price is in line with select grade lumber, however for many of my more critical projects I find it is worth the extra cost. NO knots, smooth finish and 99% straight.
http://www.claymark.com/
Regards, Ed
i don't think there lumber mill i live in city. but i will try and pick the straighest wood they have. as for claymark i look around tomorrow.
easier to crawl under
Not for us old guys 48" also brings it closer to eye level.
I agree there, Henry. Mine is 52". Looking at the way the OP's current lay out is supported, a revised 1" x 4" grid with diagonally braced legs would be 3 times sturdier that what is excisting. His current bracing reminds me of my 2nd plywood cental I built. Started with a table here, added on an extension there, more extensions over there, extra width here, etc., with whatever was needed to support the extensions, as I went.
Mike.
My You Tube
so i have built my new tapletop for my layout. home depot had some straight wood. i cut the plywood first to right size then made the frames around it and but stringer every 16 inces oc. and i used 1/2 bolts to join sections together. i still have to take down my other layout but i'm waiting for bowser sd40-2. anyway what i like about this new layout is that there some waight to it. so the waight load should be put on all the legs. and it alot cleaner even on the edges. i still have ot make hold for wiring. and bolt give it little bit of flexabilty. and it easy ot put together. i used 1x4s for frames and 7/16 osb plywood. by the way predrill your holes for screws when making new tapletop it works wonders.