Scenery glue that dries flat?

[astapleford]

For years, I've been using diluted white glue to bond Woodland Scenics materials such as weeds, grasses and foliage to my stained plaster scenery because it dries clear. But, where there are bare areas, it leaves a slight sheen, which is not realistic when you want it to look like a dirt or sandy surface. I have used the spray bottle/diluted glue method, ala balasting of tracks, but this is not always best when doing a sloped and hilly section because the force of the spray tends to either blow or rinse away the materials! I tend to spread a thin layer of the glue to the area I am working on, then sprinkle the materials on over the glue.

Is there any glue out there that dries clear AND flat and leaves no sheen nor discoloration in the final scenery?

Thank you.

[riogrande5761]

Matt Medium?

Btw, I'm still new to scenery.  If you put down say some ground foam over a base texture, do you put the adhesive down first and sprinkle the foam on, or sprinkle the foam on and spray it with an adhesive or dilute adhesive?

[astapleford]

Mainly on hill sides and steep terrain, I spread the glue and sprinkle the ground foam, then vacuum up the excess. Works good for me, but it is the sheeny glue that I don't like. I may look at Matte Medium, but that too may be too shiny.

Matt Medium.....sounds like the title to a show about a ho-hum detective!

Thanks.

[SouthPenn]

For slopes and hills I spray glue on the surface, then put the ground cover in the palm of my hand. Then using my fingers as guides, I blow gently into the ground cover and guide it on the surface with my fingers. Like a spray gun. I use Elmers spray glue and when dry I can't see any sheen. But it might depend on what it is sprayed on. I am spraying on flat paint. 

 

[rrinker]

Matte Medium - male psychic.

Matte medium with dry flat and not shiny - hence the "matte". There is gloss medium which dries shiny - some water techniques use it. With ballast I've has no issues with it coming out shiny using white glue, and it's a lot cheaper than matte medium. My alst attempt at ground foam ground cover, I sprinkled it right on the still tacky flat brown paint I used as a base color and did not drip any additional glue over it. I did not have multiple layers of scenery, basically fairly uniform grass where there was supposed to be grass, and earth/dirt where there was supposed to be dirt. My fear is that th talc in matte medium , which is what kills the gloss, would possibly discolor the subsequent layers of cover - but the bare by design spots would not be shiny. White glue won't discolor the scenery materials but the bare spots will be shiny. Pick your poison. Or have no actual bare spots - even if it's supposed to be bare, cover it with earth colors of ground foam.

I dilute my white glue with 70% isopropyl instead of water. I still spray the area with straight isopropyl to serve as a wetting agent, then drizzle on the glue/alcohol mixture. That has worked well for ballast and should work fine for ground cover too. The methods of using a drop of dish soap never work for me, the water in my area is too hard and everything I've tried ends up not penetrating the material and forming just a crust on top. Straigt alcohol and alcohol/glue soaks right in and forms a complete mass - the ballast on my old layout sections is still solidly attached despite cutting it apart and moving to a new house and then being stacked up in the basement.

                   --Randy

 

[wickman]

I have been making my own Matte medium for years using white glue and water, I use a gallon jug the white glue comes in , starting with an empty jug I put in 1/5 white glue and fill the jug with water and give a major shake and actually I  fill the jug half way with water , shake and then fill to the top and shake more , put jug off to the side and within a week or two look at jug and you will see clear up top and white glue toward bottom. Strain the clear into a jug until the white glue shows and simply repeat to the white glue. When I do scenery I use everything and anything and run it through my wifes best Blender , grinding to real course , course , fine and even finer and seperate into different containers. I will use dried leaves , twigs , pine needles etc. I will also use baseball diamond dirt , its very fine and I will run this through a fine strainer and again make different courses right upto a fine dust. I will put a certain course dirt into a margarine container and confiscate one of my wifes panty hose for a screen over the container and now have a nice dust. As for applying to bare rock I build up in layers giving a good matte  medium spray between layers , it will get messy but it will solidify. I will have to watch myself with my new layout as it has nice new carpet squares and I may make a mess.

[doctorwayne]

I'm currently adding scenery to a too-long-neglected area of my layout.  The "ground" is Durabond patching plaster over aluminum screen, and has been stained using thinned latex house paint in a generic dirt colour. 
For steeply sloped areas, I use a 2" brush to paint on the unthinned white glue.  The ground cover, various colours and textures of Woodland Scenics ground foam, is then sprinkled over the glue-covered areas - each colour and each texture (fine or coarse) is done in succession, not all at once.  When all of the foam is in place, I spray it with "wet" water - this helps the full strength glue to wick-up into the foam, but it also allows me to add some diluted white glue to areas where the foam is especially thick.
For gentler slopes or flat areas, the ground cover goes on dry, and again, each colour and texture is applied separately.  When I've got the look I want, the entire area is sprayed with wet water, then diluted white glue is applied using a dropper-type bottle.
In the area in which I'm working, the landform slopes down on both sides, and also towards the fascia, so as I worked on other things (mostly building trees), I was continually wiping glue drips from the fascia - it will eventually be painted, but not until the majority of the scenery is in place.
Most of that took place over the past several days, and much of it took most of that time to dry,  Today, I sprinkled a light application of finely-ground foam over the steepest part of the hill - a light colour to denote slightly parched grass.  This was followed by a spray of wet water, and a light application of thinned white glue - it'll be dry tomorrow or the next day.

Tree construction continues...I'd post photos, but photobucket is down for maintenance.

Wayne

[rrebell]

wickman

I have been making my own Matte medium for years using white glue and water, I use a gallon jug the white glue comes in , starting with an empty jug I put in 1/5 white glue and fill the jug with water and give a major shake and actually I  fill the jug half way with water , shake and then fill to the top and shake more , put jug off to the side and within a week or two look at jug and you will see clear up top and white glue toward bottom. Strain the clear into a jug until the white glue shows and simply repeat to the white glue. When I do scenery I use everything and anything and run it through my wifes best Blender , grinding to real course , course , fine and even finer and seperate into different containers. I will use dried leaves , twigs , pine needles etc. I will also use baseball diamond dirt , its very fine and I will run this through a fine strainer and again make different courses right upto a fine dust. I will put a certain course dirt into a margarine container and confiscate one of my wifes panty hose for a screen over the container and now have a nice dust. As for applying to bare rock I build up in layers giving a good matte  medium spray between layers , it will get messy but it will solidify. I will have to watch myself with my new layout as it has nice new carpet squares and I may make a mess.

 

That is not matt medium.

[wickman]

rrebell

 

 

wickman

I have been making my own Matte medium for years using white glue and water, I use a gallon jug the white glue comes in , starting with an empty jug I put in 1/5 white glue and fill the jug with water and give a major shake and actually I  fill the jug half way with water , shake and then fill to the top and shake more , put jug off to the side and within a week or two look at jug and you will see clear up top and white glue toward bottom. Strain the clear into a jug until the white glue shows and simply repeat to the white glue. When I do scenery I use everything and anything and run it through my wifes best Blender , grinding to real course , course , fine and even finer and seperate into different containers. I will use dried leaves , twigs , pine needles etc. I will also use baseball diamond dirt , its very fine and I will run this through a fine strainer and again make different courses right upto a fine dust. I will put a certain course dirt into a margarine container and confiscate one of my wifes panty hose for a screen over the container and now have a nice dust. As for applying to bare rock I build up in layers giving a good matte  medium spray between layers , it will get messy but it will solidify. I will have to watch myself with my new layout as it has nice new carpet squares and I may make a mess.

 

 

 

 

That is not matt medium.

 

 

My lingual sucks, perhaps it would be referred to as scenic cement. Anyways that's what I use and works well.

[carl425]

wickman

perhaps it would be referred to as scenic cement. Anyways that's what I use and works well.

Nope. It's referred to as "diluted white glue".

Woodland Scenics Scenic Cement looks pretty flat to me.

Matte Medium = Gunsmoke with a 5'9" Marshall

[rrinker]

Nice. I was a wee one when Gunsmoke was on but like many little kids I was obsesses with cowboys. It was on too late for me to watch back then, but I was in the hospital when I was 4 (nothing serious) and I hatched a plan witht he kid in the bed next to me to sneak out of our beds and go to the tv room and watch Gunsmoke. Worked for a while until one of the nurses heard us and shooed us off back to bed.

                      --Randy

 

[jecorbett]

riogrande5761

Matt Medium?

Btw, I'm still new to scenery.  If you put down say some ground foam over a base texture, do you put the adhesive down first and sprinkle the foam on, or sprinkle the foam on and spray it with an adhesive or dilute adhesive?

 

I always start with a layer of earth colored latex paint and then sift the soil material into the wet paint. That gives you a good based to start with and the subsequent layers something to grip to. After that I apply the layers dry and spray it with water with a drop of dish detergent in it until it is fairly well soaked. Then I drizzle white glue diluted with water in a 1:1 ratio until the white glue has completely soaked into the ground foam. Depending on humidity, it takes about 24 hours to completely dry.

To me the key to good scenery is layering. You can't get convincing effects with just one or two layers of material unless you are trying to depict a well manicured lawn. In nature that doesn't happen. The more colors and textures you put in the better.   

[doctorwayne]

doctorwayne

I'm currently adding scenery to a too-long-neglected area of my layout.....

...I'd post photos, but photobucket is down for maintenance.

After an annoyingly long wait, photobucket returned.  Here's the area which had been long neglected:

Some background trees in place, and the bridge temporarily set back in place, too.  I didn't bother with ground cover in that area, as it will be, hopefully, unseen:

Ground cover has been added (as described previously). The bamboo skewers are to hold lichen bushes in place:

Before adding the lichen, I sprayed it with hairspray, and then dusted-on some ground foam.  After applying some white glue to the skewers, the "bushes" were impaled upon them:

This is the opposite slope, done in the same manner...

...and finally, with some more trees in the foreground, and the bridge back in place:

Wayne

[wickman]

doctorwayne

 

 

doctorwayne

I'm currently adding scenery to a too-long-neglected area of my layout.....

...I'd post photos, but photobucket is down for maintenance.

 

 

After an annoyingly long wait, photobucket returned.  Here's the area which had been long neglected:

Some background trees in place, and the bridge temporarily set back in place, too.  I didn't bother with ground cover in that area, as it will be, hopefully, unseen:

Ground cover has been added (as described previously). The bamboo skewers are to hold lichen bushes in place:

Before adding the lichen, I sprayed it with hairspray, and then dusted-on some ground foam.  After applying some white glue to the skewers, the "bushes" were impaled upon them:

This is the opposite slope, done in the same manner...

...and finally, with some more trees in the foreground, and the bridge back in place:

Wayne

 

Nice transformation, looks great.

[doctorwayne]

Thanks for your kind words, Lynn.  
While it turned out looking pretty-much as I had hoped, it's surprisingly more difficult to use as a photo location, which was its intended purpose.

Wayne

[hon30critter]

Wayne:

The scenery looks really good. Quite an improvement on the former 'moonscape'.

Cheers!

Dave

[doctorwayne]

Thanks, Dave. 

Here's a couple on-layout views:

Wayne

[riogrande5761]

Wayne,

Nice looking valley under the bridge.  It went from "southwestern" desert to "east coast gorge"!

I am modeling desert so I'm in a different situation learning to build scrub brush and sage and tree's in a more sparse looking manner.  My next "big investment" will be a static grass applicator - which I can try to build to save money or spring a good deal more and buy one commerically made.

[doctorwayne]

riogrande5761

Nice looking valley under the bridge.  It went from "southwestern" desert to "east coast gorge"! I am modeling desert so I'm in a different situation learning to build scrub brush and sage and tree's in a more sparse looking manner.  My next "big investment" will be a static grass applicator - which I can try to build to save money or spring a good deal more and buy one commerically made.

Thanks for your kind words.  

There's a "how-to" for making your own grass applicator HERE, with thanks to Joe Fugate for his assistance.
Depending on the areas where you'll be applying the grass, you may wish to use a smaller applicator if you need to get it into confined spots.

Wayne

 

[wickman]

Great shots and scenes. Are the trees your using the Super Trees?

[doctorwayne]

Not Super Trees, Lynn, just some locally-grown wild bushes with a useable branch structure.  The Super Trees are nice, but beyond my budget for the amount I'll need.

Wayne

[wickman]

doctorwayne

Not Super Trees, Lynn, just some locally-grown wild bushes with a useable branch structure.  The Super Trees are nice, but beyond my budget for the amount I'll need.

Wayne

 

So there real, do you have to color them or add flock to them? Sure look good.

I have used the Super Trees and still have a few boxes of them, I'm not sure how much they are now but I didn't think they were that expensive a few or 5 years back and you can  make oodles of them out of a box. 

[doctorwayne]

Lynn, here's a LINK that will take you to my thread which outlines the tree construction, with some tips that might be useful even when using the Super Trees.

Wayne

[wickman]

doctorwayne

Lynn, here's a LINK that will take you to my thread which outlines the tree construction, with some tips that might be useful even when using the Super Trees.

Wayne

 

Thanks Wayne , it's been quite a while since being logged in there but I'll work it out.

[doctorwayne]

wickman

Thanks Wayne , it's been quite a while since being logged in there but I'll work it out.

 

Yeah, you'll be pleased to learn that there's no longer any need to be logged-in just to see the pictures.  That requirement was there because most photos were stored in the Forum's Gallery, which is now defunct, with photos either included as attachments or hosted off-site.  Log-in will be required if you wish to comment, though.

 

Wayne