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30 Ft. Utility poles

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30 Ft. Utility poles
Posted by HO-Velo on Wednesday, October 19, 2016 2:56 PM

Pelle Soeborg's informative and interesting tutorial article about modeling utility poles in the Nov. issue of MRR calls for Rix Products 30 telephone poles, which I assume means 30 ft. poles.  Internet research comes up with 40 ft. as standard utility pole height.  But maybe 30 ft. poles look better in 1:87 surroundings?

Thanks and regards,  Peter

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Posted by jrbernier on Wednesday, October 19, 2016 3:08 PM

   Maybe 30' above ground, and 10' below grade?

Modeling BNSF  and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin

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Posted by dknelson on Wednesday, October 19, 2016 6:24 PM

Rix sells both 30' and 40' poles.  I wonder if pole lines near a railroad line tend to be shorter than those along highways?  I also think rural poles are often shorter.  Certainly rural telephone poles look to be about 30 feet.

Dave Nelson

 

 

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Posted by RR_Mel on Wednesday, October 19, 2016 6:40 PM

Utility poles are somewhat relative to the local electric utility.  I grew up in El Paso Texas in the 50s, almost all areas had allies behind the housing and the utility poles were in the allies and shared between power and telephone.  Power on top and telephone below on 45’ poles.
 
I moved out on my own in the early 60s to Alamogordo New Mexico, sharing utility poles was the same but the height was 35’.
 
I was in two-way radio maintenance and serviced the radios at the REA Cooperative servicing the mountainous areas in and around Cloudcroft New Mexico and their standard was a 45’ pole buried 10%, again shared with telephone lines.
 
For my layout I went with 35’ polls with power on top at 34’, telephone lines at 30’ for my downtown areas.  The 4’ between the power and telephone allows for a power transformer between them.  My rural poles are 45’ without telephone cable.  I also have high voltage lines on dual 60’ poles through my mountains.
 

 
I use .010” music wire for my power lines, I put matching sag in each wire bending it slightly with my fingers.  The steel wire looks much more realistic than thread and doesn’t collect dust as fast.  Mini crafters beads work pretty good for insulators.
 
 
 
Mel
 
Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
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Posted by HO-Velo on Saturday, October 22, 2016 11:51 AM

Thanks for the replies.  

Mel,  Thanks for the tips and photos, 35' above grade might be good.

Thanks again and regards,  Peter 

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Posted by dti406 on Saturday, October 22, 2016 1:42 PM

The standard Utility pole height was a 35' Pole with 7' in the ground leaving a top of pole height of 28'.  When we bought poles, 35' poles made up 75% of our order for stock poles in inventory.  The rest were a mixture of 40', 50' and 60' poles.

Of course we would order poles for a special project depending on the specifications for that project.

And the other thing that pisses me off with all these scenery gurus is roughing the poles with a wire brush or comb.  The poles were SMOOTH, the lineman did not want their hooks to pop out if the poles were rough like Pele said in his last article on installing poles on the layout, and not every pole has a transformer on it, one transformer would service serveral houses, while a factory would have a large bank of transformers (usually 3) on the pole if they needed the power.

And all the poles were delivered in gons and not flats.

 

Rick Jesionowski

Rule 1: This is my railroad.

Rule 2: I make the rules.

Rule 3: Illuminating discussion of prototype history, equipment and operating practices is always welcome, but in the event of visitor-perceived anacronisms, detail descrepancies or operating errors, consult RULE 1!

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Posted by RR_Mel on Saturday, October 22, 2016 2:55 PM

Rick is right on the money!  In my earlier days I did quite a bit of climbing with leg irons and if a pole wasn’t smooth or too old looking I waited for a bucket truck.
 
If the pole was old and still looked OK if I couldn’t read the birth plate stamped in the pole I called for a bucket truck.
 
I use ⅛” dowels for 30’ to 35’ poles and 3/16” for over 40’.  After cutting them to length I put them in my drill press and sand them to a slight taper.
 
I made transformer castings from an Atlas HO Telephone Pole Kit for my poles, like Rick said one transformer will service four to six homes.
 
 
 
I haven’t attached the primary (high voltage) lines to this 45’ pole yet, they will attach to the pole above the transformer.
 
 
 
Mel
 
Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
Yeah, I’ve got O. C. D.
 
OLD, CRANKY and DANGEROUS
 
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Posted by hon30critter on Saturday, October 22, 2016 9:52 PM

Rick:

dti406
And the other thing that pisses me off with all these scenery gurus is roughing the poles with a wire brush or comb.  The poles were SMOOTH, the lineman did not want their hooks to pop out if the poles were rough like Pele said in his last article on installing poles on the layout, and not every pole has a transformer on it, one transformer would service serveral houses, while a factory would have a large bank of transformers (usually 3) on the pole if they needed the power. And all the poles were delivered in gons and not flats.

Thanks for that information. Poles that have been heavily scraped have always looked toy like to me. Besides, nobody in their right mind would want to climb a pole with huge slivers sticking out of it!

Dave

 

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by kasskaboose on Saturday, October 22, 2016 10:59 PM

How far apart to put the poles in HO scale?  I put mine about a 12" apart.  Atlas also sells the poles and they look quite realistic.  Would the transformers shown for homes also power businesses?

 

 

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Posted by RR_Mel on Sunday, October 23, 2016 9:03 AM

kasskaboose

How far apart to put the poles in HO scale?  I put mine about a 12" apart.  Atlas also sells the poles and they look quite realistic.  Would the transformers shown for homes also power businesses?

 

 

 

I space my poles at 125’ (18” HO) for town and 175’ to 200’ (24” to 28” HO) for rural.
 
You can use a single transformer for residential areas and three side by side for heavy users (three phase).  For really industrial type stuff a fenced in area with large and or multiple transformers.
 
I have the Walthers substation on a hill behind my roundhouse to supply my yards.
 
 
 
Its still work in progress.
 
 
Mel
 
Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
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Posted by dti406 on Sunday, October 23, 2016 12:06 PM

kasskaboose

How far apart to put the poles in HO scale?  I put mine about a 12" apart.  Atlas also sells the poles and they look quite realistic.  Would the transformers shown for homes also power businesses?

The Atlas poles are nice, except that they are actually for railroad signal use due to all the arms and insulators.  Most Utility poles onlyhave one arm and 3 insulator locations.

As an aside every so often due to a electrical anamoly called galloping the lines will be switched from one side to the other with one line being put on the top of pole during the switchover.

Rick Jesinowski

Rule 1: This is my railroad.

Rule 2: I make the rules.

Rule 3: Illuminating discussion of prototype history, equipment and operating practices is always welcome, but in the event of visitor-perceived anacronisms, detail descrepancies or operating errors, consult RULE 1!

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Posted by CentralGulf on Sunday, October 23, 2016 12:23 PM

dti406

The Atlas poles are nice, except that they are actually for railroad signal use due to all the arms and insulators.  Most Utility poles onlyhave one arm and 3 insulator locations.

Around here they have no cross arms at all, nor a third insulator. The hot and ground wires are stood off the side of the pole with insulators.

The hot is at the top. The ground is several feet below it. Below that may be the cable company's coax and/or the telco's telephone cable if they aren't buried.

Customer drops from the transformer do have three wires.

CG

 

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Posted by dti406 on Sunday, October 23, 2016 4:53 PM

CentralGulf

Around here they have no cross arms at all, nor a third insulator. The hot and ground wires are stood off the side of the pole with insulators.

The hot is at the top. The ground is several feet below it. Below that may be the cable company's coax and/or the telco's telephone cable if they aren't buried.

Customer drops from the transformer do have three wires.

CG

 

They have some of those type with short angled arms here in Ohio in some of the rural areas and would be quite prototypical.

And the telephone and cable providers are allowed to place their lines on eletric utility poles as noted the phone about 10' down from the power and the cable below it.  Cable has some interesting things in their lines like battery backup boxes and a tennis rack looking thing every few hundred feet.

By the way the drop actually has four wires, a metal messanger and three power cables.

Rick Jesionowski

 

 

Rule 1: This is my railroad.

Rule 2: I make the rules.

Rule 3: Illuminating discussion of prototype history, equipment and operating practices is always welcome, but in the event of visitor-perceived anacronisms, detail descrepancies or operating errors, consult RULE 1!

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Posted by CentralGulf on Sunday, October 23, 2016 5:07 PM

dti406

 By the way the drop actually has four wires, a metal messanger and three power cables.

Messengers don't count unless they get shot. Smile, Wink & Grin

Cable company coax (hardline) has a messenger also.

CG

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Posted by gmpullman on Sunday, October 23, 2016 7:06 PM

Many modelers, I believe, aren't familiar with the Walthers utility pole sets. These are inexpensive for what you get (IMHO) and there's lots of transformers and cross-members so you can mount the transformers between paired poles. I like these much better than the Atlas offering. The RIX ones are nice, especially the emerald glass insulators but the Walthers kits have more "goodies" included.

https://www.walthers.com/electric-utility-pole-set-kit-pkg-24

If I get a chance I'll post a photo of what the kit has to offer. The poles are "bare" and you can add crossarms in several configurations.

I believe Walthers would sell a lot more of these handy kits if they would let modelers know what's inside.

Regards, Ed

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Posted by doctorwayne on Sunday, October 23, 2016 11:43 PM

Some Walthers poles and transformers here...

...and here...

Wayne

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Posted by tomikawaTT on Tuesday, October 25, 2016 12:40 AM

Firing up the 'wayback' portion of my memory, I recall NYC lineside poles as being quite short, twenty feet give or take, along the rails on both sides of the Hudson River.  Since they were on the river shoreline, there was no reason to raise them very high.

Regular utility/telephone poles were about twice as high in the same areas.

Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

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