I am trying to come up with ways / ideas as to how I can have my mainline track enter and depart the viewable portion of my layout without using hills and mountains as a backdrop and tunnel portals to go behind the scenery to my staging area. I've been looking through hundreds of layout photos this afternoon and all I can find are tunnel after tunnel after tunnel. Isn't there a way to have track disappear between buildings or some small hills or other structures without using a tunnel? Suggestions or helpful links on this topic would be appreceiated. Thanks, geoff
Not sure why you can't find some examples, other than the builder/photographer has done a good job of presenting the illusion.
What are you using for a view block that the trains will be passing through or around?
Yes, trains going behind buildings is a common way to pass through a backdrop. Going under a highway bridge is also common. On my layout I the trains go around the ends of the view block. I have a deep, curved rock cut on one end and pass around a clump of large trees on the other side. My view block is sky blue only, with hills in front of it. It is just high enough to hide the other side of the layout. I have to stand at the end to see both sides.
Though I haven't done it, I think placing a large structure in front of the hole and have the tracks pass behind it and through the view block. Depending on your viewing angle you may need to use a larger building or a thick stand of trees to help hide the hole.
Good luck,
Richard
Umm, November MRR covers this very subject.
Buildings and forests.
I think Richard made a good point about the angle you're going to be passing through your backdrop. If you're coming in at close to 90 degrees, it can be harder to hide since you're looking straight at the opening. Coming in at angle lets you block the view easier.
What about going under a large walkway between buildings? If you make it deeper than just a backdrop flat, it could hide a lot of the opening.
Jim
Theslickest one I have relies on mountains to slip the track behind then, hiding the holes in the wall they pass through to continue on. It's part of a complex system of cliffs, streams, bridges and the mountains that acts as the separations zone between the two levels of the layout in one room and the continution into the next room. You could cut down the vertical so it was less dominant.
A closeup with trains of the upper part.
The other is basically a long cut the trains emerge from in Purgatory after going through the wall.
This train is eastbound at the Purgatory station as the track begins to curve into the cut.
Here's you can see the curve and, behind the top of the station roof, the long arm of the mountain that forms the screening to hide the tunnel under it all.
You get an overall view and see the end of the "backslope" of the cut the train is heading into here.
The last shot and this one are angles you don't see in normal viewing. Herre you see the "cut" the trains appear from and disappear into getting to the main room.
Yeah, looks a little strange but you don't see that in practice. What you see is this, with the station just to the left at the bottom of the hill acting as a viewblock.
Most of what you see is liftouts, so will try to find pics of that a little later...time to
OK, here's a pic of the liftout from the reverse angle. Operators wouldn't see this, as they are in the aisle that extends to the right of the pic.
Here it is "in the pink."
In the raw...
First train.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
mrnimble....Isn't there a way to have track disappear between buildings or some small hills or other structures without using a tunnel?....
Here are some tracks disappearing behind buildings, both the two on the elevated right-of-way, and the lower track, too. All of them pass through holes in the sky, though...somewhat similar to tunnels, I guess...
...the upper two lead to the southend staging yard and the lower one to a pair of industrial staging tracks. The latter ones represent unmodelled industries which ship and receive in the same manner as fully-modelled ones. The lower track also acts as a run-through track when visitors "just wanna see the trains run" on what is normally run as a point-to-point railroad...
Here's a view from behind the sky looking out onto the upper tracks...
...and a similar view from the lower track...
This is another disappearing act behind structures....
...but no hole-in-the-sky here. Instead, the train operator will have full view of his train, whether it's diving dramatically to the concrete floor because the lift-out at the aisle isn't in place...
...or gliding smoothly across the gap to two interchange tracks or a connection to the run-through option mentioned previously (the lift-out is at left, leaning against the layout)...
...and the area across the aisle:
There'll be a similar exit, stage-right on the recently-built upper level, as trains pass behind this as-yet uncompleted roundhouse...
...crossing over the aisle on a lift-out similar to the lower one...
If the lift-out is in place, it will afford access to the northend staging yard:
The track at the rear, in the view below, will disappear behind some structures and then trees, as the foreground scenery between that track and the occupied one in the foreground rises to block the view of the far track as it makes its way to another hole-in-the-sky leading to two interchange tracks in another room...
Regardless of whether you use structures, scenery, holes-in-the-backdrop, or tunnels to transition from the layout to staging, the transition is between a modelled area and one usually considered off-stage...in a way, it's from our representation of "real" to something representing "somewhere else". It's a contrived situation, so I wouldn't worry too much about how you choose to get from one to the other. Even when the viewer can't see the staging area, no one is fooled.
Wayne
I dunno about those lift-outs Wayne. You have to move them everytime you want a beer!
Seriously, you have done an excellent job of 'hiding' the spots where the trains go out of view.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Gentlemen, thanks to all for the great examples! I think I got the point right away with Richard's response and then everyone else emphasized what can be done with some clever scenery and structures. My situation is adding a lower level (i.e. - under the existing layout) staging yard that I want visible. Walls at each end (the helix on the other side of the wall is another project) so the horizontal sight angles are pretty much under control; a downward view by the observer is another controlled sight line. I was planning to simply use a MRR industrial area photo backdrop along the rear but I think now by incorporating some actual structures at each end of the yard I can make the track "bend" out of sight as it were. Thanks again for taking the pics and time to consider my project. Unfortunately, I didn't receive my November MRR mag yet. -geoff
You're welcome. Keep in mind although you wanted industrail examples, you can substitute buildings for mountains in mine and come up with much the same effect. What's important is restrictive sight lines, as you can bloack from view while you work the magic behind the scenes.
Since you want to access another level, my pics alos suggest about how that could work. In the last pic, you can see how the upper level has plenty of clearance over the lower. The room is 8 feet wide and 10' long. However, it's not a constant climb, around 2.5% max when it does, so the spiral it takes could be squeezed into less space. Here's a view looking from the entrance to this space, then about 90 degrees to the right of the above pics from the far back croner where these's a pop-up.
At the far end, I use another trick, a big mountain that one of my relatively short trains could hide -- and disappear -- behind.
It doesn't take much to disguise tracks. There are actually 4 tracks behind this row of buildings, but they're effectively hidden.
In this case, the row of structures (which extends to the left quite a ways) does a good job of disguising the fact that this is a loop. Sometimes I use the 4 tracks actively, but mostly they form a staging yard.
Here, an engine pulls a string of cars from a carfloat and goes out of view.
It's just ducking behind a few buildings, once again, but these structure, not even very tall ones, effectively divide that section of the layout into two separate scenes.
Part of the trick is to make the scenery interesting at the point where the trains hide behind it. The eye is drawn away from the disappearing train and into the scenery, making the illusion more complete.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
I have this location where the track disapears into some trees.
Vegetation was arranged so the hole in the backdrop was not visible from any normal viewing angle.
Rob Spangler
wp8thsub Vegetation was arranged so the hole in the backdrop was not visible from any normal viewing angle.
Rob,
Nice, discrete use of foilage.
Lots of great examples from Wayne and MrBeasley, too.
mlehmanRob, Nice, discrete use of foilage.
Thanks Mike!
Once again guys, thanks for all of your input. Best guidance now I will adjust my layout epansion plan to account for sight lines, structures and foliage to hide my mainline exiting the yard area. OBTW - I was disappointed in the November MRR cover feature How To Hide Backdrop Openings - more space was given to milling around with the structure than anything really constructive about "hiding" options. I think this thread is a much better article. -geoff
One scene, under construction in the northeast corner of my garage.
The track goes into a cut with overhanging foliage. While the 'groove' in the treetops seems to show the track curving right, it actually curves left into a 550 degree climbing helix.
Where the track reappears, it's on the opposite side of a stream from the pagoda-topped knob it just bypassed. Only a contortionist could see around the scenery to the unfinished area where it exits the helix, and only Superman could see through the close-spaced cedars that were old when Meiji was young.
My other tunnels are, unabashedly, tunnels. I'm modeling an area where the scenery stands on edge, so tunnels come with the territory.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
mrnimble OBTW - I was disappointed in the November MRR cover feature How To Hide Backdrop Openings - more space was given to milling around with the structure than anything really constructive about "hiding" options. I think this thread is a much better article. -geoff
OBTW - I was disappointed in the November MRR cover feature How To Hide Backdrop Openings - more space was given to milling around with the structure than anything really constructive about "hiding" options. I think this thread is a much better article. -geoff
I think you're being a little harsh on Eric White's article. These are two very different forms of media, each with opportunities and limits.
Sure, getting a lot of different people commenting will get you a variety of info. Do any of us go into the detail of building each scene? Not so much, so there's a limited amount of help for the beginner. My pics weren't even what the OP originally wanted, but I thought they illustrated some methods despite that, so I put a bit different spin on things, but what the heck, we have unlimited space online.
The magazine article had to fit on 4 pages. It will tend to be more oriented toward the beginner, as MR tends to be. It also needed to provide step-by-step instructions. All these mean the article needed to much more focused than this thread is. There's also a video that's an online extra with the article, which could be done here, be no one did (yet).
Having edited both print and online content, I can tell you that the structural differences are there. You may even have a preference. It doesn't mean one is good and the other bad. They're just different.
"HOW TO hide backdrop openings" is the bold promise on the cover. From that, one expects an article about the various techniques a modeller can use to hide his background openings.
But inside is a detailed construction article about a single backdrop opening. I see nothing wrong with the article. It basically a how-to for a particular structure on a project layout. I see plenty wrong with the top cover line designed to sell the November issue. It is deliberately misleading.
Indeed, CentralGulf, I was disappointed because it was total coincidence that I had a layout problem that MRR was about to address and I got overly excited. Based on my Nov. issue not arriving by the time you first responded I did take a look at the video that was also promoted on the MRR website while awaiting USPS and found no joy there either. Nevertheless, with everyone's help in this thread I have been able to formulate my scenery plan so all has turned out well. Thanks to all. Meanwhile, I will probably start another topic looking for tips on how to get my trains from the layout level down to my proposed staging yard level which prompted all of this discussion in the first place. I'm researching Helix topics now and taking measurements of adjoining attic and closet space I can use to make the elevation change. Hope you can join in.
-geoff
Geoff:
I always admired examples that continued the scenery beyond the "hole in the sky". By thinking ahead you might do some scenery or structures in the hole, and lighted appropriately, to give the casual observer the idea that there is more beyond.
doctorwayne mrnimble ....Isn't there a way to have track disappear between buildings or some small hills or other structures without using a tunnel?.... Here are some tracks disappearing behind buildings, both the two on the elevated right-of-way, and the lower track, too. All of them pass through holes in the sky, though...somewhat similar to tunnels, I guess... ...the upper two lead to the southend staging yard and the lower one to a pair of industrial staging tracks. The latter ones represent unmodelled industries which ship and receive in the same manner as fully-modelled ones. The lower track also acts as a run-through track when visitors "just wanna see the trains run" on what is normally run as a point-to-point railroad... Here's a view from behind the sky looking out onto the upper tracks... ...and a similar view from the lower track... This is another disappearing act behind structures.... ...but no hole-in-the-sky here. Instead, the train operator will have full view of his train, whether it's diving dramatically to the concrete floor because the lift-out at the aisle isn't in place... ...or gliding smoothly across the gap to two interchange tracks or a connection to the run-through option mentioned previously (the lift-out is at left, leaning against the layout)... ...and the area across the aisle: There'll be a similar exit, stage-right on the recently-built upper level, as trains pass behind this as-yet uncompleted roundhouse... ...crossing over the aisle on a lift-out similar to the lower one... If the lift-out is in place, it will afford access to the northend staging yard: The track at the rear, in the view below, will disappear behind some structures and then trees, as the foreground scenery between that track and the occupied one in the foreground rises to block the view of the far track as it makes its way to another hole-in-the-sky leading to two interchange tracks in another room... Regardless of whether you use structures, scenery, holes-in-the-backdrop, or tunnels to transition from the layout to staging, the transition is between a modelled area and one usually considered off-stage...in a way, it's from our representation of "real" to something representing "somewhere else". It's a contrived situation, so I wouldn't worry too much about how you choose to get from one to the other. Even when the viewer can't see the staging area, no one is fooled. Wayne
mrnimble ....Isn't there a way to have track disappear between buildings or some small hills or other structures without using a tunnel?....
Love your creativity.
Lynn
Present Layout progress
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/p/290127/3372174.aspx#3372174
mlehman You're welcome. Keep in mind although you wanted industrail examples, you can substitute buildings for mountains in mine and come up with much the same effect. What's important is restrictive sight lines, as you can bloack from view while you work the magic behind the scenes. Since you want to access another level, my pics alos suggest about how that could work. In the last pic, you can see how the upper level has plenty of clearance over the lower. The room is 8 feet wide and 10' long. However, it's not a constant climb, around 2.5% max when it does, so the spiral it takes could be squeezed into less space. Here's a view looking from the entrance to this space, then about 90 degrees to the right of the above pics from the far back croner where these's a pop-up. At the far end, I use another trick, a big mountain that one of my relatively short trains could hide -- and disappear -- behind.
Nice use of the rope liting.