Kato - N Scale - Layout - Pros and Cons for an HO Scale Guy

[Doughless]

Sir Madog

 

Doughless

As my need for reading glasses increases, I'm more likley to switch to O scale. I've seen some of the "hobby quality" highly detailed O scale stuff, and its amazing....

 

 

I ventured into O scale (On30 to be precise) for the same reason and had to find out, that the larger the scale is, the greater the need for detail is. Don´t you believe that this detail is any bigger than in any smaller scale. Things you can omit in N scale can be represented by a single small piece in HO scale, but need to be composed of several even smaller parts in O scale. In G scale, you even have to think about using actual scale nuts and bolts instead of castings!

Adding to that, don´t forget that most of the detail is visible in photographs alone, not when you look at your layout from a normal viewing distance.

 

Hmmm, I had not considered that.  Looking at the displays at a couple of hobby shops, the advancements in paint, lettering, number of details, etc that have been made in HO scale have certainly been made to O scale products over the years.

 

However, it might be more detail than what I would want to spend my time with.

 

But the displays were beautiful.  And I think about $450, IIRC.

[Anonymous]

richhotrain

So, what I am trying to determine are the pros and cons of such a conversion.

Rich

 

 

I'm sure this has probably been discussed at length a number of times, but here's what I'd consider.

Pros

1. The ability to put more into the same space.

2. Being able to run longer trains through impressive scenery.

3. Generally, N scale equipment costs less than the HO equivalent.

 

Cons

1. May prove more difficult to work with because of the smaller size.

2. Lower level of detail compared to HO.

Although, a look at some of the recent releases by BLMA and others mean this is becoming more debatable. See-through walkways, wire grab irons, coupler cut levers, intricate piping, air hoses and body mounted couplers. Take a look at the Trinity 5660 PD covered hoppers on the BLMA web site.

3. There isn't always as much available, although this may depend a great deal on your time frame.

 

The point is, at the end of the day I believe the only thing that's going to really help you make a decision is to give N scale a try, on a limited basis.

Get some Unitrack and flex track and try something.

You'll know soon enough if you're comfortable working with it and whether or not it's what you want for your layout.

[CNCharlie]

Rich,

I have a small HO layout and I used Kato Unitrack on most of it with some Atlas in a yard (no built-in roadbed). It has performed flawlessly for 10 years. 

I also have an N scale layout on a door that I started 5 or 6 years ago. I intended to build it with Unitrack but ended up doing it in ME flex largely due to the appearance of the track and turnouts. I also liked the spring loaded feature of ME turnouts as I don't use any electric turnout controls. I am using DCC. 

If I had to do it over again I would go with Unitrack and stick with DC. Unitrack turnouts are power routing which is an advantage. I found that getting N scale track level and smooth for good DCC operation was a real challenge. Also I found N scale locos have more power pickup problems than HO so for me DC would have been a better option, not to mention lower cost. I like DCC for HO as I like sound but not in N scale. I tried it but the speakers are just too small for decent sound. 

I like both scales and find advantages to each. 

As far as layout height goes, I think N scale needs to be closer to eye level. It is hard to see those tiny rods on N scale steam unless you are close. 

CN Charlie

 

[cuyama]

Doughless

My concern would be the apparent lack of flex track compared to HO.

Most of the HO flex track providers offer it in N scale, too. Of course.

[richhotrain]

Thanks, bnsf1, lots to think about there. I plan to make a trip to my LHS to look at some N scale stuff first hand.

Rich

[richhotrain]

Thanks, CN Charlie, your comments really have me thinking about the pros and cons, especially the DC versus DCC issue.  My HO scale layout is DCC with sound in most of my locos.  I had not even thought about the issue of keeping N scale track level and smooth for good DCC operation.  

Rich

[MARTIN STATION]

Rich,

    Just one last thing, I really like the clear plastic stackable storage cases that my locomotives and single cars come in (Kato multi car sets come in cardboard boxes with styrofoam trays). They are easy to store space wise and protect everything well and my Kato locomotives and single cars slide in and out easily time after time without damage, even those in styrofoam trays which can be stored on end like a book. So if you don't want to leave you equipment out on the layout or want to store it for any reason that can be a big plus. Also if you want to go the dcc route I think you might consider Kato Kobo Shops with the TCS dcc installed for a $40 list price difference can be worth it when it comes to the screwless split frame of the sd70ace, nw2, or some say f units because of having to remove the front coupler before removing the shell. 

Ralph

[Geared Steam]

Rich

As Byron recommended, ask this question over at TrainBoard, it's 90% N scalers (guessing) whom do amazing things. You may see some examples of what can be accomplished and some real advice from the folks that are doing it.

[Anonymous]

richhotrain

Thanks, bnsf1, lots to think about there. I plan to make a trip to my LHS to look at some N scale stuff first hand.

Rich

 

 

Your welcome.

The only other thing I can add is that I haven't had any more trouble keeping track smooth and level in N scale than HO.

Also, I haven't had any more issues with power pick up.

But, that may vary somewhat depending on which type of flex track you use.

You may be able to get some more information on another forum.

I think it'a a good idea to take a look at the hobby shop. They should be able to provide some information on that as well.

[tstage]

Rich,

I didn't read through the entire thread so I don't know if this has been mentioned already or not.  While it's undeniable that one big advantage of N-scale is more acreage for the same amount of space, the one big minus - for me - is the limited amount of steam locomotives available, as compared to HO.

Modeling the NYC in the early 40s in HO, I have quite a number of choices when it comes to steam - e.g. Bachmann, BLI, MTH, Proto 2000, Trix, and brass; some better, some worse than others.  With N-scale, it's mostly Bachmann and a couple of offerings from Con-Cor and Proto 2000.

If I were going modern it could be tempting to make the switch to N-scale because the quality is really quite nice.  That said, I love steam and early diesel and New York Central...so it doesn't make sense for me to change my focus.

Tom

[richhotrain]

tstage

While it's undeniable that one big advantage of N-scale is more acreage for the same amount of space, the one big minus - for me - is the limited amount of steam locomotives available, as compared to HO.

Yeah, that is something that I have noticed about N scale. I grew up during the later years of the steam era, and I do have steam engines on my HO layout. But, I could do an N scale layout without steam since my main interest would be to model passenger trains.

Kato has a nice lineup of ATSF passenger diesels which suits my Dearborn Station needs just fine. Unfortunately, N scale comes up short when it comes to the other five road names (Wabash, Monon, Erie, GTW, and C&EI) that owned Dearborn Station.

Rich

[CNCharlie]

Rich,

Atlas and Intermountain diesels are both nice too. I have an Intermountain F unit that really pulls well and has great detail. I think they made quite a few passenger versions. I know they did one for CN which is close to GTW. 

I have a couple of BMan steam locos and the only one that pulls well is the Heavy Mountain. The consolidation, light mountain and the 2-6-6-2 are all quite weak going up the grade. In fact I am selling the light mountain. I have a PK2 0-8-0 that is beautifully detailed and runs well but getting a decoder in the tender was a major pain. They claimed it was' plug'n play'. What a joke.  Again just staying with DC would have saved a lot of frustration. Oh I also have a Model Power Pacific which runs quite well but is very noisy. I had another one and a Mikado but sold both. Trainworld was selling them for $50 each at one time. 

Good luck.  N scale is fun and I don't regret doing the layout.  Suprisingly I found switching very easy using a uncoupling pick. 

CN Charlie

 

[jackwade]

Try to find a club in your area with N scale to really see what can be done.

I have had 3 unitrack layouts with the largest being 13' by 26'. Really had no problems with any of them. I like the fact that turnout motors are inside the turnout. Also I have found that tracking cleaning is almost never needed. Check out U  tube for some great N scale layout videos.

 

Jack

 

[Choops]

One thing to consider about HO vs. N is the ability to do switching operations.

I know that it is possible to uncouple and push cars into sidings in N scale but how reliable is it vs. HO?  Most N layouts I have seen are more aimed at long trains ang long runs and passing sidings. Where HO layouts are shorter runs with more drop offs at industries.  Both are great just different. 

Steve

[Anonymous]

Choops

One thing to consider about HO vs. N is the ability to do switching operations.

That´s also one of those hard-to-die myths. There are plenty of folks in this forum who will tell you that switching operations are not at all confined to HO scale and bigger.

[cuyama]

Choops

One thing to consider about HO vs. N is the ability to do switching operations. I know that it is possible to uncouple and push cars into sidings in N scale but how reliable is it vs. HO?

Switching works fine in N scale -- there are many successful N scale layouts focused on freight switching. (I've built a couple myself and I'm about to build another.)

[Zumf]

I have both HO and N scale layouts. I just finished the trackwork on the n scale layout with used atlas switches and flex track. I haven't had any problems at all with derailments yet. I do have two yards and have done switching and it hasn't been an issue. 

One thing to note is that micro trains makes body mount couplers, so you can switch the truck mounted couplers out.

[mobilman44]

Since this post has resurfaced, I guess I'll add some more 2 cents.....

The plus/minus of N has been listed quite well in this thread.   Many can and have been argued over, but there is one thing that should be no arguement about - and that is the capability of the MR to work with N's smaller size.

I built a 4x6 N layout when I was in my late 40s, and as skilled as I may be (or not), I just could not work with the cars/locos/track as well as I would like.   That was the dealbreaker, and I soon sold it off and went back to HO.  Ha, today at 72 I'm thinking O might be more appropriate for me............

Make no mistake, I enjoy looking at N's long trains and fantastic scenic vistas, but I just physically cannot work with something that small.   Believe me, I do admire those that can, and appreciate their efforts.

 

[John Busby]

Hi richhotrain

I went the other way because of failing eye sight.

Forget any idea of saving money you will spend what you can afford on the hobby regardless of what you are building.

While modeling in "N" I found no real disadvantages the variety of "N" stock was good as was the availability of structures and small detail parts.

Way back then certain brands you did not go near there locomotives but today they have gone or their locomotives have well and truly improved

Its big advantage is being able to build a good model railroad in a smaller space. However, I think that should be avoided and a grand model railroad should be built in a reasonable space really taking full advantage of what the smaller size has to offer

It is just as easy to build a nice scene right down to a domestic garden in "N" as it is in HO.

Just like HO I would suggest using a good brand of flex track and points for exactly the same reasons.

In all scales set track limits what you can do.

"N" scale can be a bit fiddly and finicky getting things set up but that's what jewelers loops where made for :-)

I can see no reason why the change should not be made if that is what you want to do.

Once you have got used to the smaller size it's full steam ahead

Even the proverbial dog and fire hydrant can be done in "N" or dog with a cat on trash can.

It's all a question of how far you want to push the limits of what you think can be done believe me it is possible

regards John

 

[BRAKIE]

Never mind.

 

 

[richhotrain]

When I started this thread, I was giving some thought to converting from HO scale to N scale as I contemplate building my Dream Layout. But this thread has convinced me to stick with HO scale.

I already had reservations about N scale because of the smaller size of the scale. My other concern is the lack of roadnames for what I am trying to accomplish. But, what I hadn't thought about may be the biggest advantage of N scale, and that is the opportunity to create the appearance of greater vistas and more wide open spaces in N scale than HO scale. 

My Dream Layout will be a highly urban layout, essentially a stretch of track running 2 miles or so from Alton Junction to Dearborn Station on the south end of 1950s downtown Chicago. Along that 2 mile route are coach yards, freight yards, an engine servicing facility and, of course, Dearborn Station itself with all of its freight houses. So, wide open spaces will not be part of my plan and neither will be N scale.

I appreciate all of the replies. They have done a good job in helping me reach my conclusion.

Rich

[Dragoon 45]

Rich, I model in N Scale and originally started out in N Scale in the late 60's as a teenager when it was first introduced.  What I would recommend is checking out some N scale layouts in your area if possible.  Go see what other modelers have done both with Kato track and with other track brands.  Then watch the layouts operate.  You might even want to jot down things you like and don't like while watching.  Additionally you might want to search Mike Fifer on YouTube, he has built a large layout with Kato Unitrack and has quite a lot of hints and workarounds in the videos he has posted.

I'm in the process of planning a new layout, which will probably end up using Peco Flex and switches.  My old layout was Kato Unitrack, but was a relatively small layout and the new one will be much larger.  I will probably switch track brands mainly because of expense, Kato track is much more expensive and at the size I am planning on building I can save quite a lot of money using the Peco Track and Switches.  My N-Track club uses flex track and Peco switches on its modules and to be honest I see little difference between Kato and Peco when it comes to reliability. 

 

richhotrain

Just to be clear, I am not interested in an HO versus N debate.

What I am considering is a move from HO to N in order to gain scale space in the same footprint as my current HO layout.

I see Kato as high quality in terms of track, locomotives, and rolling stock.

So, what I am trying to determine are the pros and cons of such a conversion.

Rich