DCC wiring?

[Anonymous]

Hello again!
I was just wandering, do you have to do any special wiring in the yards if you have any DCC system? EX: EasyDCC?
Zach

[cacole]

Not unless you want to turn off tracks to store locomotives on them, or store passenger cars and not have their lights on all the time. Then you need to have a toggle switch and insulated rail joiners on the siding.

[Modeloldtimer]

When going from DC to DCC.
If your engine runs ok on DC then it should run OK on DCC with little adjustments. In DC you may have common rail wiring but in DCC it's best to Gap both rails. DCC tracks have less wiring because the current in the tracks don't control the engine's speed or direction like in DC ( The decoder in each engine receives it's control packets from the Command Station ) Each engine is addressed by it's decoder Address which is usually set to the engines road number, so all DCC engines can be controlled weather they are on the same track, running at different speeds, or running in different directions at the same time. It doesn't matter, you'll have full control of each locomotive.
Do not run an engine without a decoder on DCC too long because the engine's motor will heat do to the higher track voltage.
You can wire the yard tracks if you want to install gaps and track current cutoff switches etc. (You really don't need them). Depending on how you have your yard set up and the type of switches you are using, You might need to install gaps on both rails and rewire the switches. You should wire one track to be a programing track. This track is disconnected from the rest of the system. You can wire the program track using a DPDT switch. That way when a engine is finished being programed you flip the DPDT switch and let the engine run off
under DCC control onto the system tracks. The programing track must have gaps in both rails keeping it disconnected from the system tracks at all times.
The only connection to the programing track will be the wiring of the DPDT.
This switch is wired between the command station's program track terminals and the programming track in such a way that in one direction low current is passed to the programing track ( programming mode ). With the DPDT switch flipped the connection is open to the programming track and current from the command stations track terminals is closed through the DPDT switch to the system tracks. (Normal RUN Mode) or you can just straight wire a stand alone track from the program terminals on the command station.

[Anonymous]

AS good as you sound on DCC I wish you could come over and check my track.
Thanks for all the helpful info.

[Anonymous]

In the yard, you can get shut-off capability without extra wiring by using power-routing turnouts (such as Peco, whose small-radius turnout is great for yards), so that the only track that's powered is the one the turnouts are lined for. Did this on my staging yards and it works perfectly. To know which track is powered at any given moment, you could put an illuminated end-of-track bumper such as Atlas on each body track (I know, they look pretty bad, but in staging yards, at least, who cares?).

Hope this helps.

[Anonymous]

I would have all rails to the yard double gapped and my wiring feeding the yard where it could be isolated simply for troubleshooting. Since a yard is comprised of numerous turnouts and will hold multiple locos and cars, it is the most likely place to have a derailment (short). Being able to isolate the yard quickly will let you know if the short is there or not. Also a if a short can be quickly isolated, you can still run the rest of your layout. I like to have swiches installed on my power feeds where I can shut off power to parts of the layout i.e.engine terminal, and save life on headlights and decoders.

[Anonymous]

Tweet469,

How would you isolate the engine terminal, or other places w/ switches?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by zachar

How would you isolate the engine terminal, or other places w/ switches?

I'm doing that for my roundhouse tracks. All you need are a couple of small SPST switches that you put in line with one of the track feed wires and mount to a control panel fairly close to the tracks in question. That'll let you turn off individual storage tracks so engines don't 'idle' while they're not in use. Just make sure the tracks are isolated from the rest of the yard with gaps or (as in my case) a turntable.

I'm also "daisy-chaining" the switches off the same power drop from the DCC power bus. That way only one wire has to run to the tracks from each switch. Makes the wiring simpler.

[Anonymous]

jsalemi,
so, do you take the switches, and connect one wire to the power bus, and one to the track that you want to cut the power to?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by zachar

jsalemi,
so, do you take the switches, and connect one wire to the power bus, and one to the track that you want to cut the power to?

Yup, that's exactly what I'm doing. Each track has a direct connection to one side of the power bus, and then I have a connection from the other side of the bus to the first of 5 switches (they're in pretty much a line). I then just run a 20 gauge jumper wire from the power side of the first switch to the power side of the second and so on, and a 20 gauge wire from each switch to its respective track.

I haven't permanently mounted them yet, but I've done the above with the three tracks in the roundhouse and it works just fine.

[Anonymous]

jsalemi

sorry for askin a lot of questions! So, do you add one or two wires to the power bus, and then add one wire to the track you want to cut power to? I'm just wondering!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by zachar

jsalemi

sorry for askin a lot of questions! So, do you add one or two wires to the power bus, and then add one wire to the track you want to cut power to? I'm just wondering!

No problem, but I'm not sure what you're asking?

My power bus is 12 gauge wire, with short 18 gauge 'drops' that the 20 gauge feeder wires come off of. For the stall/roundhouse tracks, there's one of those 18 gauge drops (black wire side) under the tracks, with 3 (eventually 5) 20g feeds up to the stall tracks.

Near the edge of the layout is another 18g feeder from the red wire side of the bus. A 20g drop from this goes to the input side of the first SPST switch, and then a 20g jumper from that goes to the input side of the second SPST switch, and so on. 20g feeder wires run from the output side of each SPST to its respective stall track, which completes the power circuit to the track. The roundhouse is only about a foot in from the edge, so the wire runs are relatively short.

Does this help make it clearer?

[challenger3802]

QUOTE: Originally posted by zachar

Hello again!
I was just wandering, do you have to do any special wiring in the yards if you have any DCC system? EX: EasyDCC?
Zach

The joy of DCC is no! With DCC decoders in the locos each will remain static in the yard until "called" by the cab controller. Any coaches or wagons with accessory decoders for lights, can also be switched on and off by the controller in the same way. I've read an article recently in a model railway magazine (from 1954) that had a loco yard layout requiring 45 dead sections. In a DCC layout there wouldn't be a single one!

[claycts]

Quesion please:
With over 550ft of track do I need to run 550ft of Bus wire (1100 2 feeders)?[?]

[rrinker]

I'll assume all that track is NOT in one straight line, in which case, the answer is NO.

You would want to run a single heavy gauge (#14 or #12, #12 being the better choice) bus with two wires under the benchwork, and drop feeders from the rails, Parallel tracks can be fed from the same bus. With a single booster, try to locate it somewhere in the middle so as to minimize the length of the bus. If you are using multiple boosters, spread them out for the same reason.

In some cased it may be advantageous to run a branching bus - say you have a branch line that ends in a yard, tap in another section of #12 bus wire to the main bus at the point the branch line leaves the main, and run it under the branch for the branchline feeders to attach to.

And you don't really need feeders ever foot. I thought I was the Overkill King putting feeders to every piece of flex tack (every 3').

--Randy

[claycts]

Thank You! I am using 3rd planet software to design this along with AutoCadd so it will be an over design.[:D]

[Anonymous]

Lots of good info. If I may add a couple of observations:

QUOTE: You should wire one track to be a programing track. This track is disconnected from the rest of the system. You can wire the program track using a DPDT switch. That way when a engine is finished being programed you flip the DPDT switch and let the engine run off
under DCC control onto the system tracks. The programing track must have gaps in both rails keeping it disconnected from the system tracks at all times.

My DCC owners manual specifically warns against this set up. They reccommend making the program track completely seperate from layout trackage, The reason is that the programming track uses low voltage in programming mode, if it sees regular DCC track voltage (while in program mode) it will fry the command station. While the DPDT should solve this problem, it is possible to run a loco onto the program track (while the track is in program mode) from high voltage trackage and short the gaps with the wheels, also possble to accidentally run cars with metal wheelsets onto the programming track with the same effect. A section of track between the programming track and the rest of the trackage wired in tandem with the programming track that is dead when the program track is program mode is extra insurance if you want to have the programming track hooked up to the rest of the system.

QUOTE: In the yard, you can get shut-off capability without extra wiring by using power-routing turnouts (such as Peco, whose small-radius turnout is great for yards), so that the only track that's powered is the one the turnouts are lined for. Did this on my staging yards and it works perfectly.

In my experience power routing turnouts (that rely soley on the points for power transfer) do eventually have problems routing power. As they age and get dirty, they become less reliable and start having continuity problems causing dead sidings etc. A solution is to wire a switch on the switch motor that switches the power independently of the points. However, I think it might be simpler just to put in feeders and hook up kill swtches for the sidings.

I have switches on all of my staging tracks just so I don't have the decoders constantly powered up while the locos are just sitting there. As for the yard (I haven't built mine yet), most of those tracks will not have power switches because I will be storing mostly cars there. The round house and loco servicde tracks will also have some switches to kill certain sidings. Even with the extra wiring for these switches, it still beats wiring for cab control in DC.

Guy

[claycts]

I must agree, lots of good info. This DCC sounds like the Ferrari Chat, many ways to screw up a good idea. I have Digitrax and an MRC still in the box no clue as to which I will use. Can I use both?

[Anonymous]

HI ye all! I run Sdrt house wire undeer the laout so to speak prallel to the main above then once I insalled the boosters usaly center of bock I cut the main bus line respectively to its block. If there is a siding (passing) I just run jumpers accross, also dpending on what size rail you are using (HO) and smaller I run 18gauge jumpers every 5`, in yard tracks I usaly have two sets of jumpers, both at each end, if you have long sidings that hold cars with lighting with or with out recievers it is best to install insulators in the rail, I do both rails, it`s a few more min. of work but in the end it is worth it. I work with NCE system and have been with Easy-DCC, Dynatrol and learned early do your wireing right and you dont have to chase ghosts later when you operate. Marcel

[rrinker]

QUOTE: Originally posted by claycts

I must agree, lots of good info. This DCC sounds like the Ferrari Chat, many ways to screw up a good idea. I have Digitrax and an MRC still in the box no clue as to which I will use. Can I use both?

Not together. Which Digitrax and which MRC?

[claycts]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrinker

QUOTE: Originally posted by claycts

I must agree, lots of good info. This DCC sounds like the Ferrari Chat, many ways to screw up a good idea. I have Digitrax and an MRC still in the box no clue as to which I will use. Can I use both?

Not together. Which Digitrax and which MRC?

Super Chief and Prodigy. Have NOT purchased and decoders yet. Have 15 engines most are Rivarossi old design.

[rrinker]

Well, since you already have them both, I would suggest keeping the Digitrax and selling the Prodigy. The Digitrax Super Chief is light years beyond the basic Prodigy in terms of features and capabilities. Unfortunately, the Prodigy does not allow programming of all CV's so you couldn't even keep it to use at the bench as a programming and test station. You could use it to test run locos after installing decoders, but you can't even program 4-digit addresses with it so the utility is quite limited.

--Randy

[claycts]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrinker

Well, since you already have them both, I would suggest keeping the Digitrax and selling the Prodigy. The Digitrax Super Chief is light years beyond the basic Prodigy in terms of features and capabilities. Unfortunately, the Prodigy does not allow programming of all CV's so you couldn't even keep it to use at the bench as a programming and test station. You could use it to test run locos after installing decoders, but you can't even program 4-digit addresses with it so the utility is quite limited.

--Randy

Thank You. I will have a BUNCH of extra things to sell when this is over. I am using code 83 and Atlas Custom line turnouts (I THINK only bought a sample of one). The Under table Atlas machine with the realy looks like what I will use along with the Atlas decoder for the turnouts. This is OLD SCHOOL and I was thinking of looking onto Peco or other brands. Needing 86 pieces it will be a few dollers to get them.

[rrinker]

I've used Atlas turnouts before, and I'm using them again with my current layout. Code 83 this time. I have always been happy with them. I don;t use the Atlas machines though - I use Circuitron Tortoises to run them. Mounts under the table (well, in my case, kinda IN the table, I mount them fromt he top in my foam base) and they move nice and slow liek the real thing. Plus, they draw VERY little power. a 1 amp power supply can drive nearly 100 of them! And they have TWO sets of contacts on them, for signal control and powering the frog. And that's not all Bob! [:D] If you power them with 12v DC, you can stick a pair of LEDs in series with the Tortoise motor leads to have handy panel indicator lights. No resistors needed - the internal resistance of the Tortoise is exactly perfect.
Easier to control with DCC, too, there are any number of stationary decoders that can drive a Tortoise. My personal favorite is the NCE Switch-It, very inexpensive plus you can hook pushbuttons to it for manual control as well as sending the switch commands fromt he DCC control (which never struck me as very intuitive, regardless of what brand of DCC equipment is is).

--Randy

[claycts]

I have heard a lot of good things about Circuitron Tortoises. I will check into my cost on them. Thank you for sharing your knowledge. My expertise is cars and the leather in them.

[rrinker]

Interesting, this might call for a poll on the main board.
There are TONS of peopel involved with model railroading who are also car enthusiasts of some sort. Quite interesting.

Beware, Tortoises aren't exactly 'cheap' (they are usualy more expensive than the Atlas turnouts). But I find them well worth the cost. And you usually get what you pay for (in general).

--Randy

[Anonymous]

I just traded the New Prodigy for a Super Chief because the new Prodigy won't run in DC like the original Prodigy. The Digitrax is a little more complicated, but you can re program the decoders to your liking, and have much more control of your layout.

[Anonymous]

kennyt47,
so you didn't like the new feature of the Prodigy: the LCD screen?

[Anonymous]

NCE does not have any recommendations against wiring a regular section of track as a programing track thru a DPDT. In fact they have a schematic for doing so on p17 of the system manual which can be viewed or downloaded at http://www.ncedcc.com/pdf/ph5.pdf

on power routing turnouts - it is highly recommended to NOT do so with DCC.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SunGlow


on power routing turnouts - it is highly recommended to NOT do so with DCC.

You can use power-routing turnouts on DCC with no problems, so long as you follow a couple of simple principles. First is to make sure you power the turnout from the point end; second is to have gaps at the frog end, either right by the frog or at the end of the turnout itself. I have a mix of power-routing and all-live turnouts on my layout, and don't have any problems with the p-r ones so long as I've followed these principles.