I've been in the hobby a long time but had never used Woodland Scenics paving tape and Smooth It for paved roads, so gave it a try with my retirement layout rebuild.
I immediately ran into an unexpected issue trying to remove the tape once the Smooth It had set up, where the tape stuck to the plywood surface (bare and painted) at multiple intervals to such a degree I had to use a sharp putty knife or small blade screwdriver to lift sections of the tape while removing it. Thinking I may have had a "bad" product I bought another roll of paving tape and - same issue.
I mentioned the problem to my LHS owner and he hadn't heard of the problem so I emailed Woodland Scenics Customer Service when I got home describing the adhesive problem on bare or painted plywood and asked if the product had a shelf life that would affect the tape adhesive.
This is the reply I received:
"Thank you for your interest and purchase of Woodland Scenics Products. I apologize for the issue you are having with our Road Paving Tape T1455. Paving Tape was not designed to be used on painted or bare plywood. Our Paving Tape is intended for use on plaster cloth and with Smooth-It ST1452. You can try brushing or spraying Paving Tape with a little water, and let it soak in until the tape can be removed easily."
No where is "not for use on bare or painted plywood" stated on the product packaging including the use instructions - or - the WS "how to" video on making roads ... which by the way shows the road being laid out using the paving tape on a foam base - a subtlety easily missed with no advisement.
My intent here is to advise those modelers new and long time who have not used the paving tape and Smooth It method to make roads accordingly. While the end result is great, the repetitive hassle removing the tape securely stuck to bare and painted plywood is not.
EDIT/FYI - I received a 2nd response from WS earlier today (4/24/15) as follows:
I had the same problem years ago when I used it on WS plaster cloth. My solution was to throw it out and not use it any more.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
I had this issue also recently. And though I used it earlier with the Smooth-It on my grandson's layout, on mine the Smooth-It cracked cna separated from my painted plywood. I switched to Durham's Rock Hard Water Putty (cheap and at my nearby Home Depot).
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
Not alone with this problem I see. Just wish WS had put this disclaimer on the package .... would have gone a different route entirely for my paved city streets.
It hasn't been a total headache in one respect. Since it's recommended to apply masking tape extending away from the edges of the paving tape for the excess Smooth It pushed beyond the tape edges using the plastic "trowel" I ended up using straight lengths of equivalent 3/32" styrene strips taped in place that worked like a charm for the straight paved streets. While I haven't tried it (yet) one could form curves using pieces of 3" wide balsa sheets (or thin foam sheets) cut to form and taped in place with straight pieces of styrene either side.
If they put that disclaimer on the package, fewer people would buy it.
Charlie
charlie9If they put that disclaimer on the package, fewer people would buy it.
If they put that disclaimer on the product fewer people would be ticked off at Woodland Scenics.
Its called truth in advertizing.
Woodland Scenics implies that the tape is easy to peel away once the road has set. Apparently its not, and in their response to the OP they admitted as much. If it were me who had purchased it not knowing its limitations I would be mighty ticked off at the trouble I had to go to to correct the problem caused by the lack of forthright information. That is exactly how not to go about building a customer base.
No offense Charlie, just a different point of view.
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Looks to me, either the OP let WS know there was a post here, or they are looking at it. If the latter is the case, WS, you really should have some kind of note on the product, at least inside in the instructions, stating something along the lines of, "This product will behave differently on different surfaces. Additional information on this can be found at: __ [fill-in-the-blank.com] .", and have it posted somewhere on your website, with a set of instructions that are more detailed, and cover removal techniques described to the OP.
Disclaimer: I have some, and do not have the area set for plaster cloth, but was going directly onto foam-core board. (I figured it would be easier to get a smooth, level surface that way.) Looks like this kind of information would be needed here also, as foam-core is not exactly porous, like the plywood, either. (Glad layout area changed, so now layout is changing, before I got too far on scenery, so now I know the tricks that I will most likely need to use.) Some people may not get that information from here though, so a note directing purchasers to additional tips and techniques for applications not involving a plaster cloth base would be a nice touch. And, would likely instill that trust that you need to get repeat customers. We all make mistakes, but the trick in getting (and keeping) customers (and friends) is in how we fix those mistakes. If we ignore them, we most likely will not be liked, as that shows a major flaw in our character. And if customers do not like (or trust) a business, they do not stand a chance to succeed. "Good news travels, but bad news travels faster." If customers have "bad news" about your products, it will go faster and farther than "good" reports will. Yes, helping out the OP was a good thing, and will help as the OP did amend his comment here to reflect that. But, having a application note at least in the instructions (and on your website) will help more. The more open about this issue (and, more important for you WS, the remedy), the more trust you will have. (And, in the case of businesses, more trust = more repeat customer chances. That = better success chance.)
Ricky W.
HO scale Proto-freelancer.
My Railroad rules:
1: It's my railroad, my rules.
2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.
3: Any objections, consult above rules.
I wonder if laying down a strip of masking tape first then placing the WS tape on that would be a short term fix. The masking tape should pull up easily taking the WS tape with it. Or is this just my day dreaming?
Joe
It's unrealistic for any manufacturer to list every conceivable possibility of a product's failure(s) to be suitable under certain circumstances.
cacole It's unrealistic for any manufacturer to list every conceivable possibility of a product's failure(s) to be suitable under certain circumstances.
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
While I do not expect them to list every issue that could possibly happen, I do expect known issues to be stated, especially application notes, such as the known fact (known by the manufacturer based off of response OP got) that you will not get the same results they show if you are not using a porous surface (like plaster.)
There is a big difference between what people think could possibly happen, and what the manufacturer knows does happen.
Therefore, I stand behind my earlier comment, that the manufacturer (here WS) should place a note, or list online further application notes, as there is more that just one method of doing scenery (not everyone uses plaster base for everything), and they were fully aware that if you use certain materials, (plywood, foam-core board, styrene comes to mind as well), you will not get the same results you get on other materials (plaster, styrofoam, etc...). That is, to me, a big issue, that fully aware manufacturers should note somewhere for us as consumers.
No offense meant, nor taken, on differing views, just clarifiying mine.
Edit: And, if the adhesive is that strong, does it pull up foam or plaster bits as well? That would really be an issue if it does. It's strong enough that you need to use chemicals to remove it completely on non-porous surfaces, so it might be strong enough to do other damage on other surfaces that could pull up with it, no? I can't say one way or the other yet, have not gotten to that point now that layout is being moved/rebuilt. But, I have it on hand for when I do.
I used it on top of WS plaster cloth and still had to use a scraper to get it off. It left small bits of the product behind even when scraped.
No offense...but if you would take time to reread what I posted you'll note my complaint was/is WS does not state on the product package or within the use instructions the paving tape is designed for use on plaster cloth. Had that disclaimer been stated on the product - or an advisement the tape adhesive would bond more tightly to plywood or other non-porous surfaces - I would have passed on the product thus negating a reason to post here in this forum - OR contact WS in the first place asking if there was a "use by" date for the product because the adhesive had bonded to such a degree I had to use a putty knife to try to remove it.
JoeinPA I wonder if laying down a strip of masking tape first then placing the WS tape on that would be a short term fix. The masking tape should pull up easily taking the WS tape with it. Or is this just my day dreaming? Joe
That would work using blue painters tape. Taking it one step further I'd like to know if the paving tape will stick to the painters tape same as the plywood. I'll lay out an 18" strip of blue painters tape and apply the paving tape to the top of it and see what happens (will post back with the results)..
EDIT: Nope... doesn't stick to blue painters tape. While a bit redundant to first put down blue painters tape along the street/road guidelines then apply the paving tape on top it does eliminate the problem. But since paving tape can be "coached" to form even a tight curve easily that's not the case with painters tape - wider curves yes, tight curves, no.
As I noted above, I had some difficulty on my current road project in removing the tape. As an aside, I forgot to mention that I find removal of the peel-able layer before laying on the plywood difficult to the point of being stressful; i.e., it's hard to get it started at a corner of the tape, and it can tend to separate (the plastic layer from the paper part) and some of the paper staying stuck to the glue on the foam. At that point it's really tough to get the remaining paper off.
Having said that, today I got back to my road project. I had used the tape and Smooth-It to start. But the Smooth-It cracked and separated from the plywood in one area, perhaps because too thin. So I removed the loose part, left some in place, and switched to Durham's Water Putty. I added the water putty without an edge guide and the width got a bit sloppy. So today when tuning that up (after some sanding) with a bit more water putty, I first applied the W-S edging tape. (This applies to most of the road section right of the track in the photo below). I did not press it on any more than necessary, and removed it within a few minutes, while the water putty was still pretty fluid. It makes a small bump at the interface, but that will sand easily. It certainly gave me a better edge definition, and it was so easy to place putty on the road and slightly onto the tape to get some depth at the edge, to provide an interface, which later will get Sculptamold "earth" as the bank interface.
So for me, it is better to use the edging than not, so I thought I'd report that new opinion. But, per the point of the OP's post, I agree the product would be better if improved (or at least instructions improved), as the glue is more sticky than needed (certainly for plywood), and the peeling difficulties tests one's patience.
I am rather new to this hobby but have experienced the problems described with paving tape. Since regular masking tape won't go around curves I decided to try automotive 1/4 inch masking tape. So far it goes around curves nicely and the paving tape sticks to it. That is as far as I have gone but it might work. A lot of extra work but the paving tape by itself does not work.
I attempted my first use of the road products today. I say attempted because I had much frustration and varying degrees of success. I need a different method of mixing the Smooth It. It was a bit clumpy no matter how hard I tried to mix it (I had to use it that way as it was thinking about setting up). Biggest issue was the paving tape. It either didn't stick when trying to use on painted foam board or their dried Foam Putty over riser material or stuck basically permanently! Much of what stuck had to be pried up in small sections sometime leaving gouges in the foam or glue left on the surface. I wish I had read the info here first so I could have tried the chemical options. I think most people seem to have no issues so I plan to read further before attempting to use again.
I tried a quick replay but don't see it so I will edit this - I had no issues with removing the paper protecting the glue on the paving tape. I used the edge of a knife to puch the foam away from a corner with easily left a bit of paper that could be pulled away with no problem.
The quick reply eventually showed up and could not be deleted so see the edit on my original reply.
Right, who ever built a model railroad on plywood before?
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.