I want opinions on LED strip lights vs flourescent for lighting my layout.
My benchwork will be 48" high and the ceiling is only 76" high.
I know nothing about LED's and want to know if those little strips can produce enough light.
Thanks
I discuss and illustrate my experience with a specific kind of strip lighting in my Night Scene thread. It also cover day time lighting. I've converted over to the LEDs for everyday lighting. The overhead tube lights are rarely turned on now. I used the few halogen track lighting for some dramatic emphasis sometimes, too. Other than that, my 28x16 main room and my Cascade Branch are 95% LEDs, with only a little lower level lighting in one area left to compact tubes.
The link: http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/213765.aspx?page=1
Discussion on these starts about halfway down the first page and continues intermittently. Here's a pic.
You can see the yellowish tubes on the lower level, but everything else is from just the LEDs over head. The nice thing about this particular product is it comes as cord covered in a clear sheath. It's well protected and easy to reconfigure.
Ceiling height is 6'6" and the center penisula is 45" above the floor. Top deck with Silverton is ~54". One more:
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Enough light, apparently from Mikes and others photo's and expriences. But the one thing I've noticed in photo's of the LED strips is the effect of a long string of bright little points of light - kind of seems distracting unless you can hide them behind valences. It looks too much like Christmas lights in the train room to me, unless you can somehow get used to that effect or learn to ignore it.
With fluorescent lights, they have the traditional long bulbs - and there are now supposed to be brighter, lower power versions now on the market from what I understand, T5 form factor (the older fluorscents were T8 and T12 but are being phased out apparently - T8 being a little over and inch in diameter and T12 thicker still).
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Jim,
I simply don't notice them, even as low as the ceiling is. However, I also don't use a valence. Since they are very low profile, even in the restricted overhead of my basement a thin valence could be fashioned from 1x2 material, various black rubber weatherstrip products, etc. If you have a winding layout, that would be complicated, but doable if needed.
If you must hide your lighting for whatever reason behind a valence, then any LED strip light is going to cause issues in scenes that are either deep or lower than normal on double deck layouts. You generally make multiple passes through a scene like that and these need to be spacced as evenly as possible across the area, rather than concentrated to throw light across it like track lighting does. But you could do multiple thin valences and so long as you blend them into the ceiling color, they'd still disappear well.
In the pic down below showing Crater Lake Junction, it's low and shallow enough as a scene that one pass through easily hides. But as you get into Crater Lake itself, the scene gets much deper and the end of this run zags around above, as you can see in this shot, to evenly light it.
Recently, I did add a valence on the Cascade Branch as it nears the end of track at Crater Lake. It and Crater Lake Junction are essentially shadowbox arrangments and I wanted to improve the angle of light. So I built a lightweight valence of 1x2 and used tywraps to attach the light strip. It was easy quick and cheap. The photo is a little dim up there, but it looks a lot better than crinkly aluminum duct tape.
The orientation of the LED strip allows the thing to be pointed rather easily once you manipulate it a bit. Unlike tubes, the light is pretty much all paralell rays, which is actually more like natural sunlight in how it falls on the scenes. That's what sold me on it, beside running cool, being cheap to run, and easy to hang.
Thanks for the photos Mike. The strips look like they provide enough light to me. The white light is alot better than the yellow light coming from the tubes in my opinion.
Mike, forgot to ask you, what type (brand) of LED's did you use?
For your consideration, my LED strip lighting installation. 5050-300 6500K strips bought on eBay.
http://www.lkorailroad.com/lighting-system-operational/
Alan
Freelancing the LK&O Railroad
I've been getting mine from Menards, which is widespread across the Upper Midwest, but not so much elsewhere. They do have an online order dept IIRC so that's an option if you want them and can't find them elsewhere. Don't know if they serve Canada or not.
The brand name has changed, but I suspect the same factory in China pumps them out. The ones I was getting at first were Meridian, which offered Cool White, Warm White, and Daylight. I used the Daylight ones.
Then they switched to being Patriot brand. They first had the three same choices as the Meridians. Then Daylight disappeared! Panic set in and after the quit showing up I finally inquired a couple of times. Then I talked to a guy in the electrical dept who happened to be a model RRer. He figured out that they simply started called Daylight Cool White. Same SKU, 346-2510.
Our last two building renovations, the business office and the visitors office were fitted with LED lighting. These were built right into the ceiling troffers. They look like ordinary flourscent fixtures, but there are no bulbs or sockets in them, just rows of LEDs.
They are brighter than the flourscent fixtures, and of course there are no lamps or ballasts to replace.
On layout of LION him is begun to use LED ropes and similar, they are quite nice in what they do.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
LED strips, I guess, are the next great thing, but they are still crazy expensive!
Dean
30 years 1:1 Canadian Pacific.....now switching in HO
riogrande5761With fluorescent lights, they have the traditional long bulbs - and there are now supposed to be brighter, lower power versions now on the market from what I understand, T5 form factor (the older fluorscents were T8 and T12 but are being phased out apparently - T8 being a little over and inch in diameter and T12 thicker still).
I have converted, and re-converted, and NOW re-converted my lighting in my 20 year old layout room.
I started with 2' x 4' troffers in the suspended ceiling using four tube T-12s, then a few years ago I became annoyed by the constant 60 Hz hum of those big magnetic ballasts so I switched them all over to T-8s with electronic ballasts.
Better, but still a slight hum and they were supposed to be brighter but the particular ballasts I got a deal on were low output.
Recently, I've trashed the ballasts alltogether and gone with 48" LED tubes and I think they're great! 115 VAC goes right to the lampholder. Some can use the existing ballast but I didn't want to bother with any ballast so I got the direct wire type.
https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/117550/LED-54104411.html
I bought six of the high-output, twin lamp, T-5 fixtures to use in a soffit. They are quite bright but they sure do produce a lot of heat! I wish I would have put the LEDs in there, too. I don't know if it was the heat but two of the ballasts failed and four of the lamps failed already. Try returning a burned out fluorescent lamp even after only a week of use!
The LED tube replacements are running anywhere from $11 on up to $25 or up.
They give off bright light, I got the 2900K ones, and they are dead silent
I have dozens of MR-16 track light and recessed eyeball lights that I have switched over to LED as well.
Recently I've been getting these little gooseneck fixtures that a MR-16 GU10 snaps into and I think they are great!
I use the LED strips with the peel off backing and you can cut to the desired length for structure, passenger car lighting and under my staging yard.
Happy modeling, Ed
I am using LE lampux 5050 daylight white strips--$130 for 50 meters or 160'
http://www.lightingever.com/waterproof-led-strip-5050-4100063-dw-us.html
enjoy the day
TomO
mactier_hogger LED strips, I guess, are the next great thing, but they are still crazy expensive!
They're not cheap, but several factors weigh in. The most obvious time to replace is when your old lighting needs freshening or just plain ol' replacement. Then the extra cost is just the difference between LEDs and whatever else you might install. This gap is closing as other technologies face the need to improve efficiency.
Then there's power savings. My whole main layout is lit by the same wattage draw as two 75 watt incandescent bulbs. It doesn't stop there, because for those of us where heat is a factor find a lot less load on the A/c during the summer (although that has to be less of a factor in Canada, of course.)
gmpullmanI have dozens of MR-16 track light and recessed eyeball lights that I have switched over to LED as well.
Ed,
I have about six left, which I plan to convert when funds are available. Right now that will take the better part of a Ben Franklin to do. They'll be cheaper soon anyway They are there in terms of cost and quality if you shop carefully.
I definitely still like to use my track lighting for pics from time to time, as well as work, although most of the lamp fixtures are in storage.
I still don't care for the "Christmas light effect" that the led strips seem to have - but thats just me. Right now I have T8 conventional tube fluorescent lights but wish they were brighter so the LED tube's, if I can make a direct replacement, that looks like a good solution to me. They do cost more but it's not cost prohibitive at around $12 a tube. I have 5K temp bulbs right now as they are considered daylight (approx noon).
It looks like the LED T8's in Ed's link have 1680 lumens vs. the ones I have 2150, so going to those seem to reduce the amount of light rather than increase it. Might be easiest for me to just add more inexpensive T8 fixtures right now.
Speaking of temperature, what is the consensus on that. Some going for 2700, some 4500, some 5000
I might use the strip led lighting to attach underneath the yard to illuminate the staging yard if they aren't expensive.
They are all white but tend to have a predominate color cast.
2700K is roughly the color of light produced by an incandescent lamp - reddish.
4500K is roughly the color of a cool white flourescent - yellowish.
5000K is roughly the color of a daylight bulb - greenish.
6500K is roughly the color of sunlight - bluish.
As the temperature rating goes higher so does the luminarie's ability to produce shorter wavelength light hence the cast. Red= longest, blue=shortest.
Pick the cast (thus temp) that pleases your eye. 5000K is very popular.
I have a small On3 switching area about 24" beneath my HO layout.I recently installed the "5050 Daylight" strip LEDs which tloc 52 mentioned in his post,and I'm very happy with the result.
The strips are on the inside walls of some 1" aluminum angle,and are completely hidden from view.
Over the main layout,I have thirty 750 lumen Daylight LED spots(8.5 watts each) in track lights.I felt that it would take too many strips to light the four foot area between the ceiling and the top of the layout adequately,and that without a valance,the strips would be hard to ignore.The "heads" on the track lighting can be positioned so the light source is hidden from view. As Mike L. mentioned in his post,the energy savings,and the reduced heat output,are significant.
Rio Grande5761,I know these are above your price point right now,but I replaced 4 fluorescent tubes in the kitchen with these:
EDIT: Check out the list price -what a deal!
http://www.amazon.com/Goodlite-G-20411-Fluorescent-Replacement-Approved/dp/B00JKW3AVU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1427472395&sr=8-1&keywords=4+foot+led+tube+daylight+g-20411
At 2400 lumens,6000K they are the brightest I have found,much brighter than the tubes they replaced.The price is bound to drop over time.
Mike
In my case I combined temperatures. Below 5000K looked too red to me. It did not look like real sunlight except maybe at sunset. 6500K created the necessary blue cast to simulate sunlight but by itself was too cold looking. The color cast was right but the overall "feel" was wrong. 5000K had the best "feel" but by itself did not have enough of the necessary blue cast. So, I used 5000K as the primary light temperature and supplemented with a small amount of 6500K. The end result looks very much like sunlight to my eye yet has just enough warmth so as not to feel cold and hollow (if those words can be used to describe light!).
Boone Morrison, who has written a time or two for MR, but used to have a regular column in the NG&SL Gazette, and I were also on a mail list for some time, but he changed scales and I've kinda lost track...in any case.
Boone also happens to be an architect in Hawaii, so he knows strong sun and inetrior lighting, as well as what the average modeler is trying to achieve. He argued the 5000k Chroma 50 tube from GE is pretty much the professional gold standard in interior lighting where realistic reproduction of colors is desired.
There are others who make such tubes. There's the Sylvania equivalent in the 1+kw of tube lighting in the layout room. It did make a substantial improvement in how colors was rendered and thus what I use as a standard. I suspect a lot of 5000k color temp-rated LEDs have a spectrum that doesn't really get that close to the Chroma 50 standard, so it's still important to consider each product carefully before making too big a commitment with whatever you choose.
mlehman I suspect a lot of 5000k color temp-rated LEDs have a spectrum that doesn't really get that close to the Chroma 50 standard, so it's still important to consider each product carefully before making too big a commitment with whatever you choose.
I suspect a lot of 5000k color temp-rated LEDs have a spectrum that doesn't really get that close to the Chroma 50 standard, so it's still important to consider each product carefully before making too big a commitment with whatever you choose.
Agreed. Color Rendetion Index (CRI) is the specification to check. Higher = better. Anything in the 90s is excellent. If the CRI is not specified then you can assume it is low.
BTW the Chroma 50 lamp is also widely regarded as the gold standard in spray booth lighting at professional body shops.
Alan,
No CRI listed on either of the brands I used, but they look right. So probably less than the sharpest knife in the drawer, but a clearly useful result.
If you really wand cheap LED's, wait and buy them after X-mas, local Walgreens had them for les than $5 a roll.