I am going to use insulated joiners with my N-Scale Peco turnouts. For those of you that have used them, do you glue them to the adjoining tracks? I have places where I would like the joint to be secure to ensure a smooth transition to the adjoining flex track.
Richard
I model in HO scale, using Atlas code 83 flex track and Walthers (Shinohara) code 83 turnouts. I have never had to use adhesives of any kind to secure insulated rail joiners (I use Atlas). They fit very tightly and have never worked their way loose. I would think the same would be true in N scale but I could be wrong. Just my two cents worth.
I gave up using Peco insulated joiners and replaced them with regular joiners and then cut gaps as necessary. I found the joiners were always working loose and became a regular item that needed fixing.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
skagitrailbirdI model in HO scale, using Atlas code 83 flex track and Walthers (Shinohara) code 83 turnouts. I have never had to use adhesives of any kind to secure insulated rail joiners (I use Atlas). They fit very tightly and have never worked their way loose....
Same here - once the turnout and the track have been secured in place, there's no way that the joiners can slip off the rail by themselves.
Wayne
This is indeed an interesting question. I also model in N Scale but use Atlas track. While I don't find the insulated rail joiners loosen over time, I do find the gap between joiners and track sections to be clunky (for lack of a better description). The locomotives and rolling stock make a noticeable and distinct sound when they traverse the gap. I have tried a few things to close that gap, but I still end up with a gap that seems...and frankly looks...too big. I have contemplated using plastic shims super glued between the joint to smoothen the transition while still maintaining the insulated integrity of the two sections of track, but haven't gotten around to trying this out yet. So in addition to aiding the OP, I too will find your answers, opinions, suggestions useful.
Regards and happy modeling!
Don.
"Ladies and gentlemen, I have some good news and some bad news. The bad news is that both engines have failed, and we will be stuck here for some time. The good news is that you decided to take the train and not fly."
I'll use the slip-on insulated joiners (HO code 83) IF the rail is tangent and not under any lateral stress. Otherwise, I use the cut & fill method of using a thin Dremel wheel and filling the gap with ACC gel and a thin .030 strip of styrene.
Any flex track curves and the soft nylon or "slippery engineering plastic" whatever they're made of, just does not have the strength to keep the rails in line.
Have fun, Ed
With insulated joiners installed and the track fastened down in what ever manner you normally use, the joiners are not going to come loose. To come loose, the track would have to move.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
Let's see....Atlas code 83 flex, Atlas, Shinohara turnouts, 90 insulated rail joiners, also Atlas. For my 45 block cab control DC layout. Track up and running 25 plus yrs now and never had any problem's with the joiners. If you paint Your track and ballast, no way are they coming loose. I even have some on the 36'' radius curves, they are staggered, at least a inch apart.
If painting and ballasting doesn't work...try a drop of CA, when you attach them from the get go. Use a couple track spikes. If you are having that much trouble keeping alignment, you got more going on than just insulated joiners.
Good Luck!
Frank
We have many, many insulated rail joiners on our HO scale club layout that have been in place to close to 20 years and none have ever come loose.
I simply slip the insulated joiners onto the rails making sure they go on without ripping then I'm sure to nail down the tracks on each side of the joiners especially if there in a curve which does happen sometimes. I'll handdrill the ties maybe two or three back from the joiners and tripple check that the flex track is flowing through smoothly then nail them down.
Lynn
Present Layout progress
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/p/290127/3372174.aspx#3372174
My fault for not being as clear as I could have been. On my first (learning) layout, I soldered the connections, then cut and filled a gap. I really did not like the results. The gap using a Dremel is proportionately huge in N-Scale. I also have been less than successful in filling the gap with styrene and glue. Given my past experience, I opted for insulated joiners this time.
I was pretty confident that the joiners would stay in place once the track was glued down. What I was, and am still, concerned about is getting a good, smooth transition from the turnout to the attached flex track. Previously, I soldered the joint before laying the track making a good, rigid connection. I could then shape the flex track curves without worrying about the connection. I am wondering if there is a way to accomplish the same thing with the insulated joiners. My thought was to get everything lined up, glue both tracks to the joiner, then bend away without concern. Maybe I am just overthinking it. It would not be the first time.
RideOnRoadMy thought was to get everything lined up, glue both tracks to the joiner, then bend away without concern.
I'm not aware of ANY kind of glue that will adhere to the type of plastic that insulated rail joiners are made of. It's the same stuff that Super Glue nozzles are made of!
You might have to do a little "prebending" of the flextrack rails coming into the turnout and be diligent about getting the RAILS spiked in place, not just the center hole in the tie. Generous use of weights and stick pins would help as well. I mostly used Walthers Code 83 (Shinohara) in HO that pretty much kept its shape after you curved it.
Ed
I model in HO, almost all my track is Atlas Code 100 flex and Atlas Custom Line turnouts. On Atlas' insulated joiners, there is a tab coming up in the middle of the Atlas joiner that keeps the two rails from touching each other (insulating the rails) So the joiner can not move, as people are saying. My insulated joints for Block Wiring fall where ever they were needed, curves; or, straight and the insulated joiners work flawlessly at holding the rails in alignment.
There is no need for anything to hold the joiners in place as they are firmly trapped in position. I have no experience with N scale track; however, I've also never seen anyone express problems with insulated joiners in this scale!
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
If you get 'bumps' on the insulated joiners - it's probably the vertical tab being a tad too long and sticking up above the railhead. This can be carefully filed down to make a smooth joint. Don't cut it off, it's there for the same reason you glue a piece of styrene in the gap when you make your own insulated cuts with a Dremel. To keep the rail from shifting and bringing the ends in contact, negating the insulating effect (and being a rather nasty bug to find sometimes - when everything USED to work fine and suddenly there's a problem - it can still look like there's a gap but in reality, there is contact).
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Richard:
If I understand you correctly, what you really want to do is eliminate the 'bump' caused by the gap in the rails.
You don't mention how exactly you were using styrene to fill the gaps. Perhaps you could re-examine your method. I don't have a layout yet but I have gapped and filled a bunch of HO Peco turnouts in preparation for controlling polarity on powered frogs. I used a piece of styrene the same thickness as the gap but slightly larger than the profile of the rail. Once the glue has set (gel CA) I file the styrene to match the shape of the rail. The gap will disappear once the rail is painted. I should mention that I am using a fibre reinforced cutoff wheel instead of the thin ones that tend to shatter, so the gap is fairly wide - about .040".
Try not to go nuts with the gel CA because it is a bit harder to file down than the styrene.
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
I too try and not use any insulated joiners, particulary on any track that curves.
For gaps in curved track or flex track on a curve, I add super glue to the rail that I am going to cut and glue it down to the plastic ties for at least one inch on each side of where the cut will be. Sometimes I will drill tiny holes in the plastic ties beside the rails and add spikes and super glue them in also. Once everything dries, I will use a motor tool with a cut-off disk and cut the gap. If I need to fill the gap, I use epoxy and then file it smooth after it cures.
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.
They say a picture is worth a thousand words, so here it goes. My challenge is not the gap itself, it is getting a straight line. Here is the desired connection.
Here is what happens when I put preesure on the track to create a curve.
It sounds like gluing the joiners is not an option. I will just keep trying.
RideOnRoad They say a picture is worth a thousand words, so here it goes. My challenge is not the gap itself, it is getting a straight line. Here is the desired connection. Here is what happens when I put preesure on the track to create a curve. It sounds like gluing the joiners is not an option. I will just keep trying.
I see the dillema, what you need to do is straighten the right rail so it lines up, start about 18 inches back and push it so its straight and tack it, now get a small hand tool drill the kind that small bits fit into ( size of nail ), you will have to drill holes in the switch ties and the rail on the right and tack it in place. Once the rail has been tested and you ballast the track all will be good.
Here's an example of where I added joiners for a auto reverser in a reverse loop.
R-O-R
That's exactly the condition I was refering to in my first reply. Even when I lay flex track with soldered joiners on curves I have the rail laying straight before I solder the joint then I gently curve it into place.
Now a thought just came to mind... It might be a little trickier to do in N scale but I wonder if any of the manufacturers of PC board ties makes such a tie that it has four solder pads yet is insulated in a way that you can solder each of the four rail ends to hold them in place??? Or you could get a piece of un-etched PC board and make maybe a 1/2 x 3/4" rectangle out of it and cut an insulating gap, like a cross, with a triangular file to give you four places to solder the rail ends to and this would hold the rail in place. It would get hidden under a light coat of ballast.
After making the joint you would probably still want to ACC a thin strip of styrene in the gap just to be sure it didn't close over time (the temperature changes in the room can put a pretty good force when the rail expands.)
This would give you solid alignment and still provide insulating properties.
Just an idea... Ed
Sorry, I misunderstood your problem. The pictures tell all.
Lynn's photos illustrate the solution very well. Match the flex track's initial curve to that of the turnout, or, if the turnout's track is straight, keep the flex straight. Drill and spike the ties as shown and only then form the curve needed in the free end of the flex track. The rails at the insulated joiners should then stay aligned with those of the turnout.
Why not just cut gaps in the rails and forget about insulated rail joiners?
Rich
Alton Junction
richhotrain Why not just cut gaps in the rails and forget about insulated rail joiners? Rich
I have had very limited success cutting and filling gaps. The N-Scale code 55 track is just too small for me to do a good job.
I ran into this issue last week, but found that once i was able to tack the track down and adjust it everything turned out just fine. The flex track doesnt like to stay as curved toward the ends so i just held it in place where I needed it to be until it was permanently in place....I used liquid nails to do the job.
Unless using a curved turnout....You should never begin any curve before or directly at the turnout. Should have a minimum of three inches of straight in any case. Geometry will explain why. The tighter the radius, the worse the reaction.
Take Care!
zstripe You should never begin any curve before or directly at the turnout. Should have a minimum of three inches of straight in any case.
You should never begin any curve before or directly at the turnout. Should have a minimum of three inches of straight in any case.
They say patience is a virtue. I took my time and was able to accomplish a reasonable result. The turnout is a Y-turnout so I wasn't as concerned about having a very subtle curve coming out of the turnout. (It was a simple adjustment to line up with the matching turnout out the other end.) I started by gluing (caulking) down the track leading into the Y and the Y itself. I let this cure overnight so it was solidly attached. I then slowly shaped and pinned the adjoining track until it lined up correctly, then pinned and over-pinned to hold it in place. I think it is going to work.
Edit: Everywhere else, well, almost everywhere else, I have at least 2-3" of straight track before and after every turnout.
I don't glue insulated joiners as once they are in place I have never had one slip. I have tried getting gaps with a Dremel tool and have run into a couple issues. One is the gap is wider than what it would have been using an insulated joiner. The other one is there seems to be an alignment issue since there isn't anything holding the ends in place. Both of these cause a noticeable 'clunk' so I am going to replace these with the insulated joiners - fortunately there aren't many.
I use Atlas flex track and once thing I have found helpful is to gently tap the end of the track opposite the insulated joiner and it does seem to tighten the gap without making an electrical connection.
There's never time to do it right, but always time to do it over.....
Now your thinking right Richard. Patience always works. I do have a couple of spots that turn right out of the turnout. At first it was an issue but I learned to leave a very small gap and anchor the C 55 with nails, epoxy under the first couple of ties coming out of the turnout, put a dab of epoxy under and in the gap I have created and let sit. Later I would make the curve and nail in place with Peco nails. I do not like caulk as I have mentioned before and once the track is painted and ballasted I have to look real hard to find the Peco nail heads.
I don't bother with trying to install plastic sheet in the gap. In C55 it is not worth the trouble and once ballasted who cares anyway. The Epoxy, (5 Minute) holds the gap.
I am in the north eastern foothills of Colorado and humidity is not an expansion or contraction issue and I notice you are in Arizona which I would assume is also not an issue for humidity expansion and contraction. I do keep my layout to no more than 20 degree temp. swing. Just my experience. Doug
I don't usually fill the gaps I cut in the the rail. However! On the odd occasion I have. An older than me timer, showed me how to put a dab of hot glue from the glue gun in the gap and file it to shape. A dab of paint and you have to look to notice it. The few I have done are still in good shape some years later.