This is my basic open-frame benchwork for Phase 3 of my layout that I started back in the summer:
With some pink foam installed and the sections assembled as designed, they look like this:
The outer frame is 1x4 and 1x3 lumber. The legs are 2x2. I added screw-in leg levelers to the legs to make sure I could get it perfectly level. I use 2-inch pink foam for my subroadbed (layout base) and Woodland Scenics foam roadbed right beneath the track.
I'm sure I'll forget something, but here it goes with tools: hammer, screwdrivers, hand saw, tape measure, large square, level. I find this corner clamp to be well worth the $9 they get for it:
My power tools include a circular saw, scroll saw, drill and sander. I would recommend having both a plug-in and cordless drill. For one thing, you won't be dead in the water if the battery runs down. More important, though, is the time you save when you're drilling holes and screwing things together. You can use one drill for the holes and the other to drive the screws, without swapping bits every 30 seconds.
Add a few of those foam paintbrushes, too. I give my benchwork a coat of stain and a couple of layers of polyurethane. It looks better, and it seals the wood which reduces warping with humidity. It also keeps down splinters.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Mister B.,
Do you use leg levelers?
Rich
Alton Junction
richhotrain I have cut a lot of plywood and Masonite board with a circular saw. I would never attempt it with a jig saw. Rich
I have cut a lot of plywood and Masonite board with a circular saw. I would never attempt it with a jig saw.
Why not? A jigsaw just slices right through that stuff. There are tons of things my Dad built around the house, the large pieces were cut on a table saw and the fine cutting was all done with a jigsaw. I don't think he even bought a circular saw until he built the playhouse for us - lots of sawing 2x4s to make the framing, and not convenient to use the table saw indoors for something that big.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
richhotrainYou could consider returning the saber saw and replacing it with a circular saw. A saber saw, also called a jig saw, is a slow moving, slow cutting tool that is not well suited to cutting plywood and 2x4s. If you tried to cut a 4' length of 1/2" plywood with a saber saw, it would take all day and night to complete the task. OK, so I exaggerate, but it would take considerable time compared to a circular saw. Rich
A saber saw, also called a jig saw, is a slow moving, slow cutting tool that is not well suited to cutting plywood and 2x4s. If you tried to cut a 4' length of 1/2" plywood with a saber saw, it would take all day and night to complete the task. OK, so I exaggerate, but it would take considerable time compared to a circular saw.
As Randy noted, a decent sabre saw works fairly well! Plus you can use it to cut curves on subroadbed - a very versatile all around power tool - surprisingly.
You're going to laugh at me but the layout I am building (photo's below) I am building using only two power tools - a sabre saw and a cordless drill. Yep, thats it!
I'm on a pretty strict budget too, and given my druthers would like a mitre saw and a few other things but I've managed ok with just the Sabre saw and the cordless drill (and it's real old and only one batter works)
Those two power tools, a level, tape measure, yard stick, folding six foot rule from my geology days, and a square. Oh, and one of those corner clamps shown above to hold 1x4's together when building the frames, a good $9 spent.
I invested in a counter-sink for my drill, and pre-drill all my holes before driving in the drywall screws I used to hold everything together - otherwise you'll be splitting wood frequently. I have #6 and #8 size drywall screws ranging from 1 inch to 3 inches long depending on what screwing together. I used longer ones like 2 1/2 inch #8 to hold frames together and shorter for risers etc.
I don't have much carpentry experience either. As for the major cuts, if anything like that needs done, I've just had Home Depot make the long cut there before loading the wood and bringing it home. I can't fit 4x8 sheets in my Rav4 or Prius anyway. The sabre saw isn't fast, granted, but it's not that slow either and you can cut 4 feet through plywood in a matter of minutes with a decent saw blade.
I'm using open grid 1x4 frame with 1x3 cross members and 2x2 legs. If you are careful with the sabre saw, you can cut reasonable square cuts.
An older photo from August showing the side coming around to above staging on that end.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
I would agree with those saying to keep the jig saw over a circular saw, i own both but used the jig saw the most for building my layout. Circular saw may cut longer sheets faster, but really how often will you be making long cuts? Have the big box stores rip the plywood sheets for you if you can. With the jig saw you will have the option for cutting curves and making those cuts that a circular saw is too big to do.
Use a square and clamps for cutting with the jig saw and you'll have good cuts. Use a scrap piece of 1x3 or whatever you have, clamp a square to it that the jig saw base will be able to follow along as you cut. Make a cut across, then measure from the square to the edge of the cut and write that measurement down. Whenever you need to make a square cut, measure out the total length you need to cut,make a mark, then measure back by what you have wrote down, make a mark(both sides if it's wide) place a straight edge across the second set of marks and clamp it down, line you jig saw up, check that your blade is in line with your original cut mark and just keep the saw base against the straight edge as you cut across.
Regg05 Ok so my question now is should I take the saber saw I bought back...
Ok so my question now is should I take the saber saw I bought back...
I have a Makita set of 18 volt cordless drill and hammer driver. I have a borrowed miter saw, and I have a skilsaw and sabre saw. They all are very handy when the need comes. For the sabresaw, you'll need it to cut out a hole to inset a turntable if you are going with a transition era layout. No turntable? I'd take it back and invest in quality drivers. That's just me.
rrinker richhotrain I have cut a lot of plywood and Masonite board with a circular saw. I would never attempt it with a jig saw. Rich Why not?
Why not?
In my mind Mr Beasley has it right. As far as tools needed, you are in luck as HD always has deals on Ryobi tools this time of year. You can get a circular saw drill combo with two batterys for cheap, last year it was only $79.
Rich asked: Do you use leg levelers?
Yes, I used something like these:
The ones I used have a carpet base, because my trainroom has a carpet. These give me about an inch of adjustment range, which is plenty as the floor is flat and all I'm compensating for is my own sloppy carpentry. If you're looking them up online, search for "threaded glide." I got mine at Home Depot.
MisterBeasley Rich asked: Do you use leg levelers? Yes,
Yes,
Rich replied: Once again, Mr. B., great minds think alike. I believe that leg levelers are essential to building a reliable layout.
Once again, Mr. B., great minds think alike. I believe that leg levelers are essential to building a reliable layout.
Not just building, but also maintaining. When you're entering a world whose boundries are that of imagination, things really do go bump in the night. The open box frame or L-girder benchwork you build today will take on weight over the years, much as I have. This will cause it to sag and bend unevenly. Having an easy way to trim it back to level helps keep your main lines flat so your locomotives will always be able to pull their trains without a shove to get them over the unplanned high spots.
Good day folks
So I figure I will take the Sabre saw back and get the mitre saw. My budget us $175. Is this the same thing as a circular saw? Or are they very close in functions? While at the store I will also pick up those leg levelers Mr. Beasley uses and some wheel casters, a square and thats about it.
No, a circular saw is a much simpler and less expensive tool. I'd love a miter saw, but I can't justify the cost. I do have a manual miter box and a back saw for making angled cuts.
I have both a large square (2 feet on one side, 18 inches on the other) and a small square with a 1-foot ruler and a sliding square edge that has 90-degree and 45-degree sides. This is very handy for measuring those 45-degree angles I used on my triangular leg gussets in the top picture.
I have casters on the oldest part of my layout. Get big wheel ones. The tiny ones do not roll well, especially as the layout gets heavier with trains and scenery on it. You can't use leg levelers and casters on the same leg, though.
Not the same thing. A miter saw is basically a circular saw mounted in an adjustable arm so you can easily make rigth angle or any othe angle cuts. It can only cut stick lumber, like 1x4s, 2x4s, etc. It cannot be used to cut sheets of plywood. You need a circular saw for that.
Also to cut nice square 1x4's for benchwork you need an angle square. They are cheap, harbor freight being the cheapest. Don't know about their 18 volt stuff but very cheap, day in day out. I still vote for Ryobi, even used them on job sites.
I have a friend that volunteers at a "new to you" tool store. I think it is run to benefit Habitat For Humanity or some other similar organization, I am not sure. The place is full of every tool imaginable. Some are brand new, others look like they were used for one project by a homeowner and never used again. All the tools in the store are in very good shape or are not sold. They get so many donated they can afford to be picky. These tools sell for pennies on the dollar and are the best deal in town. If your funs are short there are similar stores in most metropolitan areas. Check it out it goes to a good cause.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
Hello All,
This is AMAZING!!! I love these forums!
I've just have to say this...
The information and expereinces being presented here is wonderful.
To the OP some of what we are discussing is overwhelming.
For me, reading the other post and seeing the photos has been eye-opeing! I've learned so much.
Thank you all for sharing your time, knowldedge and expereince. And, being open, recieptive and respectful to all members.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
Regg05 Good day folks So I figure I will take the Sabre saw back and get the mitre saw. My budget us $175. Is this the same thing as a circular saw? Or are they very close in functions? While at the store I will also pick up those leg levelers Mr. Beasley uses and some wheel casters, a square and thats about it.
- Douglas
A few comments on benchwork construction:
David Popp has done some really good videos on building benchwork. If you have not done bench work before watch them. They are in the MR Video Plus how to library.
Next, keep your saber saw, but if you can afford a miter saw, by all means, buy one. One suggestion on finding one cheaply is to hit up a pawn shop. Trades people are notorious for getting into money problems and pawning their tools. I worked with a really skilled carpenter who purchased all of his power tools in pawn shops, many for 10-50 % of new price with literally no wear or damage.
Do purchase a cordless drill, recommend at least 14 volt battery as 12 volters don't have much power or user life. I have a 12 year old DeWalt that works as well as when it was new.
Buy a carpenters speed square. They are essential for making square cuts and are handy when assembling stuff squarely. I clamp mine between the leg and horizontal frame members to make sure my legs are square to the table top while gluing legs to frame.
Also buy a couple of C-clamps. They are indespensible in assembling legs. I use Bessy Clamps which are pricey but handy and don't leave marks as the come with soft plastic jaw pads. I also use old cheap metal C-clamps with 6 inch jaw openings.
I am about half done with my bench work and have used scrap 1 x 2 and 1 x3 for somne legs and horizontal supports. The rest of my lumber was puchased from Lowes is is really what is called no 2 grade. The secret to straight legs I believe is a 100% glue joint where the L joint is made. As David Popp shows, I glue, clamp and then finish nail the pieces together to let them dry. Finished bench work is very sturdy. I am using 1/2 cdx plywood (sheeting grade). I will be using homosote road bed and hand laying track to save money and enable me to do turnouts and wyes as I choose. Most people go for ready track and preassembled turnouts but that cost more money.
A 7 x 12 layout may be a little wide for access. Upon doing a fair amout of reading, I opted for 24 inch width for most of my bench work with a couple of wider spots for yard tracks and a round house but still withing 2-1/2 feet from all edges.
As far as fold up legs, David Popp also has video of building fold up legs in one of his bench work videos. The videos are all geared at the beginner level but have really great tips.
Just to note a speed square and angle square are the same thing, different parts of the country use different lingo.
Good call on the C-clamps. When using C-clamps try to put a small piece of wood between the clam and what your clamping. That way if the clamp jaws press into the wood while tightening they mar the shims and not your project.
I’ve also found useful pinch or spring clamps- -think of a clothespin on steroids. I picked up a set of assorted sizes from Stanley. They range in size from about 2-inches to about 8-inches. These come in handy between the C-clamps when not as much clamping force is necessary but you need something while the adhesive is curing. The smaller clamps are also great for using when building scenery or modifying rolling stock.
A mitre saw might be handy while building the bench work but it’s a pretty specialized tool. Unless you’re building a lot of bench work or are a professional cabinet maker that money might be better spent elsewhere.
Definitely measure twice or thrice and cut once!
I picked up a cordless set that had a drill and a 5-1/2-inch circular saw. The mini-circular saw can cut through 2x4’s but is better suited to 1x’s and thin plywoods- -up to 1/2-inch.
With different blades I’ve been able to cut metal gutters, cement board to fix the shower and panneling for various projects around the house. I definitely recommend with any cordless too buy and extra battery so you can leapfrog them.
Hope this helps.
Hi Guys:
I have a two year old 12 volt cordless black and deker. I drive deck screws with it. The advantage of lithium ion batteries is that they may be left plugged in without damage, unlike older types.
I prefer inch and a quarter #6 screws to finishing nails to hold with glue. Yellow carpender's glues is tronger than general purpose white.
Dave
I really appreciate all the feedback that I've been given. I didn't realize I would get so many responses from people on this forum. I went to Home Depot this morning and returned the sabre saw but still haven't made my mind up on what saw to get. In the meantime my friend has a saw zaw (whatever that means) and a circular saw. My other friend has a mitre saw. So I will hold back for a moment to see what I should get. I am going to have Home Depot cut the 4x8 plywood sheets in half though so that I can have six pieces. It will be easier to transport that way. I'm going to borrow Home Depot truck for two hours which is $19.99. I just have to find one of my friends to help me.
I think you're on the right track here. Since it doesn't sound like you have much inclination to do woodworking, borrowing the tools is your best bet. If it's just going to sit around gathering dust (instead of creating it), why spend money on it?
Get a cordless drill /screwdriver combo (one tool that does both). This is the most versatile tool you can own. Don't worry about the battery life. A lithium ion battery pack charges in less than an hour, and if you have two batteries, it's very hard to run one down before the other is charged.
The great saw debate above is very useful, and in fact the well-outfitted wood shop needs a table saw, miter saw, and a jig saw / sabre saw. If you cut plywood and other sheet goods often, a panel saw is good too. But unless you plan to do more woodworkimg, they are all unnecessary expenses.
If your friends have these tools, they probably know how to use them and can help you get started. Remember what I said about beer and pizza afterwards.
Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
The 'saw zaw' is a "saws all". Its real name is a reciprocating saw. It has almost no reasonable use during the construction of a layout, but it really saves time on the destruction if you don't have the inclination to use a wrecker bar and an eight pound sledge.
Regg05 I am going to have Home Depot cut the 4x8 plywood sheets in half though so that I can have six pieces. It will be easier to transport that way.
I am going to have Home Depot cut the 4x8 plywood sheets in half though so that I can have six pieces. It will be easier to transport that way.
Why not measure the size of the pieces you'll need for making your table top (if that's what will be used) and have the home depot cut the plywood into those exact dimensions. They don't care if its cut into halves or just a foot off of the end to make it 7 feet long.
Agree with Doughless, don't just have Lowes cut your wood to generic sizes if you can pre-determine some major dimensions to cut your 4x8 sheets. For example my staging yard is 2 feet wide so I simply had Lowes cut my 4x8 sheet in half long-wise so I had two 2x8 foot pieces. For my yard above the staging, going in above, I had Home Depot cut my 4x8 so it was 30 inches wide, so the above part is wider. I didn't have to do long cuts with my sabre saw because the lumber store ran those cuts for me - and beside, I can't fit a 4x8 sheet in my car but I can two 2x8 sheets or up to 30 inches wide. That saved me the cost of renting a truck too! Just sayin if keeping costs down is important.
As another said, a saw zaw will be of little to no use on a layout.
I still stand by the sabre saw and cordless drill combo if you can only own two power tools. With a little practice you can cut reasonably square joints with one as my layout photo's show - just mark your lines with a square and cut carefully along them. Check for squareness as you go so make sure you are cutting square on the down stroke of the sabre saw blade and square along the pencil line.
I forgot to mention C clamps. I have 3 or 4 in expensive small C clamps to hole the risers in place while I'm adjusting them for correct height, and 3 or 4 larger C clamps of various sized so I can clamp much thicker pieces together as necessary, those are a huge help during construction. I even use my hot glue gun to temporarily hold wood together in some cases while I'm drilling pilot holes and driving in the dry wall screws. I use few if any nails as dry wall screws are supierior and won't work loose over time.
MY Sears Craftsman 14 volt cordless drill has plenty of torque to drive in even long screws. You'll need a set of drill bits, a counter sink and some phillips head drivers so you can use that to drive the dry wall screws. I can quickly change out the bits, the counter sink and the phillips drive to get the dry wall screw pilot holes and then driven in place.
Cheers, Jim Fitch