Hello,
which would you prefer to have a model railroad. I am basically a bachelor in his late 40's that is building a garage with a loft, but also lives in a big old farmhouse. From your experience, what would you prefer? Building a layout in a garage loft seperate from the house, or in a couple of spare bed rooms on the second floor of the house you live in? Heck, no issue building a helix, so I could have the trains run from the second floor to the first.
Basically that is my first decision that needs to be made and I am asking for your input, specially if you have had both situations. For me the mess made by cutting in the house is of no concern, it vacuums up easy.
Thank you
Frank
"If you need a helping hand, you'll find one at the end of your arm."
If the garage is heated and air conditioned, I would go for the garage, plus the access in and out of the garage would be much easier. I also would not want to deal with saw dust and other materials in the house.
"If the garage is heated" being the key phrase here. I have a large 8 by 24 layout in my garage.I have both a wood stove and a small gas heater in the garage, which I use when I'm out there working. However, when I'm gone, the garage can go from 20 below zero in the winter to maybe 100 degrees, in the summer, if it is closed up on a hot day. My trackwork was beautiful when I laid it. A year later, much of it was buckled, and bowed up or sidewise from the expansion, due to extreme heating and cooling. Now I am redoing all the trackwork. The buckling was worst in the sections where I soldered the track joints. Small 1/16 inch expansion gaps at the rail joints seem to have fixed the problem. If you lay track with nice tight rail joints, it only takes a 1/16 or 1/8 inch expansion, with nowhere to go, to buckle the track.
Woodman's caveat about the garage loft being heated and air conditioned cannot be understated.
I spent many years in the home improvement business and I have seen many many attic spaces that have been renovated without proper attention to climate control. If you are thinking of just stuffing some insulation between the roof trusses and then screwing drywall on to them you will likely create a space that is too hot in the summer and too cold in the winter. To insulate a loft properly IMHO you need several inches of air space above the insulation that is ventilated just like a regular attic. That tends to eat into the available loft space big time. Otherwise, the heat transfer through the roof trusses and the unventilated insulation will make the room less than comfortable for at least half of the year.
I should qualify my statement by saying that by "loft" I am assuming a space with angled ceilings and knee walls. If your "loft" has full height walls and a full attic it will be no different than a second story on a house, but the ventilation/insulation issues are still vitally important.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
I understand it does rain or snow in your neck of the woods - at least now and then?
If that´s the case, why build a layout in a place where you have to leave your cosy home, risking to catch a cold, if you have the choice of using a spare bed room?
I agree with Ulrich. My layout is above my garage, in what has always been called the "train room" even during the design for the addition. But, it's an attached garage, so I can just walk up a few steps and there I am. My workshop is in the basement. So, even on a cold or rainy day, I'm in a t-shirt and jeans and I can get to the train room easily. It has heat and air conditioning, and a TV and stereo, too. Either that, or my "man cave" has a train layout.
To me, it's an ideal arrangement.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Thank goodness for midwestern basements.
If my choices were limited to garage, spare bedroom, loft, or outbuilding, I wouldn't build a layout.
Why not, you ask?
Garage - Cold in winter, hot in summer, I need the space for my cars.
Bedroom - I have no spare bedrooms, if I did, wife would veto the idea.
Loft - Another name for attic in my area, too low to stand up.
Outbuilding - My village has an ordinance prohibiting such structures.
Rich
Alton Junction
LION has layout of him in a classroom above the library. If you have neither classroom nor library in your abode, the garage at firs blush is very tempting. Work shop and lumber yard downstairs, layout upstairs. Since this is a free standing garage, there is no problem with inusulating it and installing climate control.
To use unheated spaces in a house is more problematic vis a vis the building codes. Some attics are not built to support a synamic load, and codes may have issues with insulating un heated spaces. A building inspector will let you know what is or is not possible above the garage.
As for the unused bed rppms, that is a great idea, if you can tolerate construction machines in one of them and the attenednt dust in the other.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
I knew a guy who had a very nice large layout in his (detached) garage attic. While it was heated in winter, and at least moderately comfortable in summer (I don't think we operated in July or August) he did have problems caused by the humidity and temperature changes. All his track was handlaid and he had some issues with it. What I remember was the lack of comfort trying to work on the far edges of the layout where the roof line sloped down. I was only comfortable in the very center of the garage attic but then I was 6'6" tall at the time.
I think he also found it a disincentive to go to his layout during rain and snow storms because it was detached from the house. But he had no room in the house so it was there or nowhere.
Heh I just remembered that a guy on his work/operating crew worked at the local post office and confessed that sometimes I'd get my MR and RMC a day late because he'd read them first on the job!
Dave Nelson
Mine is built in the Living room and 2 bedrooms. It is an around the walls layout with 2 lift bridges. Avoid duck unders, your future self will thank you. I went with the indoors option because the attached garage is uncomfortable 5 months out of the year. Plus it greatly increased the storage space in the house. My 46" Flat screen, PS3, XBOX, WII and all the associated junk that goes with it are under the layout, and usable if I wanted too. I have piles of back issues of RMC and MR in wooden crates and on books shelves stored around the layout. The intial spark of an idea, and what eventually won the girlfriend's (future wife) approval was a photo of Tony Koester's Allegheny Midland Coal Fork extension with the Television and Book shelves under the layout (pg 60 June 1998 MR). I based the height of the benchwork on the tallest piece of furnture: 37". My only restictions were I had to keep it out of the Kitchen, Bathroom, and there had to be a place to sit and eat.
Two of my clients had me design layouts for separate detached buildings in eastern US climes and both somewhat regretted the decision later, as going out in the winter weather to get to the trainroom discouraged them from working on the layout. One disliked it so much that he had me redesign for a smaller space inside his house with the same concept and he tore down what he had built to that point in the separate building. Your mileage may vary.
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Having the trainroom just through a door off the kitchen/familyroom means I am in there a lot. I would not get nearly as much done or be inspired if I had to go out to an out building and wait for it to heat up or cool down. I'll run in there just to glue another bit on something or throw some more dirt around. I wouldn't do that if it was in an outbuilding.
I play my guitars for a couple of hours every day while waiting for the glue to dry on something. I usually have a steamer making six minute laps at the same time.
A good stereo system for when my ears can't take any more of me.
A bar with a lazyboy is also required for reading MRR magazine and just like the guitars would not be found in an outbuilding.
A toasty warm workstation for all those projects you have dreamed about.
And a fireplace to sit in front of when you run your trains.
So my vote is for in the house. Since you are about to start swinging the hammer to prepare, you should think about the necessities and include them. People come over and ask me what I do all day now I have been retired for five years. I tell em I go through that door and often stay in there all day. Also think about what you will be standing on in there. It makes a big difference in the fatigue factor. Make the train room a nice place to be and you will enjoy it all that much more.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
Train room of LION is in a classroom above the library.
It is two buildings over (depending on how you cound buildings.
From the first floor (my room) I can pass thro8ugh the slype, exit the building for about twenty feet, and re-enter the library building at the basement level.
From the basement (my office) I can pass under the church (through the crypt) directly to the library basement withoug going out doors at all.
But once in the Library, I must climb two long flights of stairs which leaves me huffing and puffing by the time I get to the top landing. (Did not used to be that way, I used to fly up those stairs two steps at a time0.
I don't get to go up there as often as I like, and once there I may be called down again to sell wine to some visitors.
But all in all, it is as fine as it gets. Poor Br. Llewellyn has his pottery (and computer) in a shop above the laundry which is a separate building, and one can see him limping over there in all kinds of nasty weather. I'm glad I do not have to go out doors. I can seldom coax me over there to work on his computer. I try to fix things from the console in my office.
I vote for the spare bedroom, since most of my rring is late at night in my jamas
Joe Staten Island West
I would build in the house.
I’ve appropriated the spare bedroom/computer room- -now railroad room, for my 4x8 pike.
There is some construction dust from modeling, which is dealt with via a small shop vac. The bulk of the work is done outdoors; when weather permits, or on the back portch which also serves as the bicycle shop, ski & snowboard tune shop and general work space.
The advantage of modeling inside the house is not only climate control but also you can work on your project anytime you want! The need to bundle-up or go into the attic when the mood strikes a moot point.
Please keep us informed on your choice and progress with the project.
Happy railroading and I hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
thank you for all the replies. Many great points have been brought up by all of your replies. The space is open in the loft, but as people pointed out it does get cold here in Ontario close to Ottawa. The house is a great option but rather limited. The nice thing is that there is no need to get dressed to go and run some trains. So will have to make some decisions, but i sure do appreciate all the great input.
First off Frank I see you are a fellow Ontarian so of course garage would have to be heated and we all know what that involves if its not already insulated for heat and cooled for comfort in summer. I would also choose the spare room and try to make it modular so if you ever decide to move it can come apart. Basicly no turnouts over joints.
Lynn
Present Layout progress
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/p/290127/3372174.aspx#3372174