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Rotary Dumper, Walthers? Plans?

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  • Member since
    January, 2010
  • From: Parma Ohio
  • 119 posts
Rotary Dumper, Walthers? Plans?
Posted by Bluegill1 on Saturday, September 27, 2014 10:54 AM

I need to empty my Hoppers. 3 bay 100 ton, and also tub variety. (late 80's early 90's era, CSX in West Virginia's coal country)

Can the Walthers kit be motorized?

Are there any plans available for me to make a dumper?

I'm not worried about prototype fidelity, I'm more concerned with easy, reliable, dependable operation.

Electric or manual, either is fine for me, as long as its dependable.

Thanks or any  help.

David

 

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  • From: Washington
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Posted by chugg on Saturday, September 27, 2014 11:45 AM

Good morning David

I used a gear drive motor to get the speed of the dumper about the same as videos I watched on youtube. I hooked the motor up to the dumper mech. with a driveshaft. I start the action with a momentary push button switch. the dumper rotates to the empty position where it contacts a switch I made out of phospher bronze . The switch sends a signal to a twin coil switch machine, which reverses the gear drive motor, returning the dumper to the upright position. When the dumper reaches the upright position another switch cuts the power to the gear motor. pushing the momentary button starts the process again. I'm sure this could be controlled with dcc as well, but I built this before that technology was available.

Good luck,

Philip

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  • From: Parma Ohio
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Posted by Bluegill1 on Saturday, September 27, 2014 12:48 PM

Philip,

did you use the walthers kit as the dumper?

david

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Posted by maxman on Saturday, September 27, 2014 2:55 PM

If that kit has plastic gears, I would question if it would stand up to long term reliable operation.

  • Member since
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  • From: Parma Ohio
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Posted by Bluegill1 on Saturday, September 27, 2014 8:01 PM

"If that kit has plastic gears, I would question if it would stand up to long term reliable operation."

yes, my concern also. 

I was hoping someone would know where plans for a simplified dumper might be aquired

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Posted by Schuylkill and Susquehanna on Saturday, September 27, 2014 9:15 PM

I would not use the plastic gears for power transmission (if I am looking at pictures of the kit correctly).  I would run a brass shaft throught both ends of the dumper with a bearing just under the subroadbed on each end.  Drive the rotary dumper through the shaft, and leave the plastic gears purely for show.

I love the idea of powering a Walthers rotary dumper, and I have thought about doing it myslef.  Unfortunately there is no room Crying.  Please post picures of your progress, I am eager to see how it turns out!

Good luck and may your trains always stay on the track.

S&S

 

Modeling the Pennsy and loving it!

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Posted by Train Modeler on Monday, September 29, 2014 8:42 AM

MR magazine did some articles on one several years ago.   YOu can search for that issue and get some good info on how to do it.  It's one or more of the mags in their DVD set too.   Don't forget the rotary couplers.

Richard

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  • From: San Diego
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Posted by stokesda on Wednesday, October 01, 2014 10:08 AM

Don't forget the rotary couplers

Yeah, I was wondering how that would be handled on a model. Do you have to uncouple the cars and dump them one at a time, or would you use some kind of special rotary coupler on your cars?

Dan Stokes

My other car is a tunnel motor

N-Scale Japanese Shinkansen Display Layout blog

  • Member since
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  • From: Parma Ohio
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Posted by Bluegill1 on Wednesday, October 01, 2014 12:14 PM

I was planning on one at a time.

With a string of 6 cars, push the first one into the dumper, then using the magnetic uncoupler , uncouple , pull string back, dump the car, push string forward using the delayed uncouple feature, repeat.

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Posted by cmrproducts on Wednesday, October 01, 2014 12:28 PM

stokesda

 

 
Don't forget the rotary couplers

 

Yeah, I was wondering how that would be handled on a model. Do you have to uncouple the cars and dump them one at a time, or would you use some kind of special rotary coupler on your cars?

Dan

I operate on a layout that features Live Load loading of coal

and

An Operating Rotary Dumper.

While this one was totally scratch built - it works extreamly well and it just allows one car at a time to be unloaded.

The car is pushed over a Magnet and then onto the Dumper - the train as backed off a bit

Then the dumper is started which clamps the car and then tips it over to 60 degrees.

then the car is rolled back down - the train hen pushes the car out of the dumper and it runs down a switchback into the Empties yard.

The loaded train is pulled back and the process is started all over again

It will dump 12 cars in less than 3 minutes.

It is all electrically controlled by an operator running a toggle switch - real simple mechanically

A cable is wound up by a motor and unwound the same way

A weight system pulls the dumper and car back upright as the motor is unwinding the cable.

I don't have any PIC - or at least can't get them into this forum.

BOB H - Clarion, PA

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Posted by stokesda on Wednesday, October 01, 2014 7:08 PM

Bob,

Thanks for the information on your rotary dumper. That sounds pretty cool, and that's certainly one way of doing it (i.e. one car at a time). I think it's pretty amazing that you have it all automated.

After my initial post, I did some poking around and found out that there are, in fact, HO scale working rotary couplers out there. Sergeant apparently makes one, but there's also some guy out there who modifies Kadee #5s for rotary operation. Here's a Youtube video I found that shows a rotary dumper in action with rotary couplers on the cars. Here's another Youtube video from a different user.

Dan Stokes

My other car is a tunnel motor

N-Scale Japanese Shinkansen Display Layout blog

  • Member since
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  • From: South Carolina
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Posted by Train Modeler on Thursday, October 02, 2014 9:02 AM

stokesda

Bob,

Thanks for the information on your rotary dumper. That sounds pretty cool, and that's certainly one way of doing it (i.e. one car at a time). I think it's pretty amazing that you have it all automated.

After my initial post, I did some poking around and found out that there are, in fact, HO scale working rotary couplers out there. Sergeant apparently makes one, but there's also some guy out there who modifies Kadee #5s for rotary operation. Here's a Youtube video I found that shows a rotary dumper in action with rotary couplers on the cars. Here's another Youtube video from a different user.

 

 

I saw these work years ago in Omaha and it is really the only way to go for a class 1, particularly more modern.   Keep in mind you only need them on one end but all the ends have to set exactly the same one car to the next, that's what the prototypes do too.

Checking out the MR magazine articles answers a lot of questions.   You can make this a DCC op too.   Execution of whatever plan you go with is the real crux.   Alignment has to be perfect,particularly for the couplers to work.   Everything has to rotate around the coupler's rotating pin.   That is your axis of rotation.    It has been done many times, just needs patience and planning ahead.  So, build in some elongated ovals in the bracketing for various 2D movement.   You may have to shim the track or reduce the track in relation to the coal dump to offset.    Coupler height also has to be spot on--do this first before testing.  And use some coupler graphite lube on the rotating pins.   

Richard

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Posted by cmrproducts on Thursday, October 02, 2014 3:16 PM

Train Modeler

 

I saw these work years ago in Omaha and it is really the only way to go for a class 1, particularly more modern.   Keep in mind you only need them on one end but all the ends have to set exactly the same one car to the next, that's what the prototypes do too.

Checking out the MR magazine articles answers a lot of questions.   You can make this a DCC op too.   Execution of whatever plan you go with is the real crux.   Alignment has to be perfect,particularly for the couplers to work.   Everything has to rotate around the coupler's rotating pin.   That is your axis of rotation.    It has been done many times, just needs patience and planning ahead.  So, build in some elongated ovals in the bracketing for various 2D movement.   You may have to shim the track or reduce the track in relation to the coal dump to offset.    Coupler height also has to be spot on--do this first before testing.  And use some coupler graphite lube on the rotating pins.   

Richard

Richard

This is exactly WHY this Modeler did not do that and went with the standard method

Why have a headache trying to make the thing work and then have to keep readjusting as the Rotary Couplers wear (which they will).

I will put function over Prototypical accuacry anytime!

Although our I-80 Operations Group is more interested in OPERATIONS than is it 1000% model accurate!

If it works then it is better than being 1000% accurate and it works sometimes!

Some Modelers love to make more work for themselves than necessary! ;-)

BOB H - Clarion, PA

 

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Posted by Bluegill1 on Friday, October 03, 2014 11:57 PM

Bob H ,

private message sent

David

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Posted by Train Modeler on Monday, October 06, 2014 2:51 PM

cmrproducts

 

 
Train Modeler

 

I saw these work years ago in Omaha and it is really the only way to go for a class 1, particularly more modern.   Keep in mind you only need them on one end but all the ends have to set exactly the same one car to the next, that's what the prototypes do too.

Checking out the MR magazine articles answers a lot of questions.   You can make this a DCC op too.   Execution of whatever plan you go with is the real crux.   Alignment has to be perfect,particularly for the couplers to work.   Everything has to rotate around the coupler's rotating pin.   That is your axis of rotation.    It has been done many times, just needs patience and planning ahead.  So, build in some elongated ovals in the bracketing for various 2D movement.   You may have to shim the track or reduce the track in relation to the coal dump to offset.    Coupler height also has to be spot on--do this first before testing.  And use some coupler graphite lube on the rotating pins.   

Richard

 

 

Richard

This is exactly WHY this Modeler did not do that and went with the standard method

Why have a headache trying to make the thing work and then have to keep readjusting as the Rotary Couplers wear (which they will).

I will put function over Prototypical accuacry anytime!

Although our I-80 Operations Group is more interested in OPERATIONS than is it 1000% model accurate!

If it works then it is better than being 1000% accurate and it works sometimes!

Some Modelers love to make more work for themselves than necessary! ;-)

BOB H - Clarion, PA

 

 

Thats' why I wanted to post my experiences in this area, to make sure the pitfalls are known.  

I've run them both ways and you're right, using the pull/push through method without uncoupling is more complex up front/construction.  But on the layouts I've seen it done, it works well.  MUCH more enjoyable to operate  More upfront work for sure, but not near as much fiddling around dumping one car at a time in an op session. 

It really comes down to where you want to spend the effort(construction or operating(in this case with extra fiddling)).   In reality it takes about another day or so to get the rotary couplers system working well.     But, you need to be an above average modeler to put the system together. 

Richard

 

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Posted by Marc_Magnus on Sunday, October 12, 2014 4:35 PM

Hello from Belgium,

Yes You can find plan of a rotary dumper at the included address.

These plan are for a Hight lift rotary coal dumper similar of the one still existing in Sandusky I beleive.

These kind of hight lift dumper were used by the PRR, N&W and many others.

They are suited for the 30's to the 90's however it seems the one in Sandusky is still in use, it exist a video on You Tube about it.

The N&W historical society has many detailled pictures of these machines.

Making a google research about  Mc Myler Rotary coal dumper will give you many pictures of the monster and some model build of these rotary.

The plan are the real plan of dumper, of course everything need to be scratchbuild.

I am in the slow way to build one in Nscale, a real challeng to make it working and well detailled..

Study and planning how to do are now finished after a good one year of work, its a complicated machine not so easy to do in miniature.

I include picture of the plan, picture of the machine and picture of a working model in HO build by Al Parker.

You can obtain these plan from Michael L.Rabbit at the address    mrabbitt3@verizon.net

The plan are from each side elevation, details of the dumper, details of the roof machinery and the pulleys system, they are accurate and reduced in HO scale.

To build the piece, I glue print of the plan on a piece of plywood and solder the brass shape following the plan, however these need some adjustement and engenering.

Pulleys could be found in the ship modeling materials in many size and shape.

Using Central valley bridge parts for detailling and Plastruct shape will help to build the model. Arch Tranfer decals rivet details were used too.

 

 

 

 

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Posted by Train Modeler on Tuesday, October 14, 2014 2:27 PM

Wow, that's impressive.

Richard

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  • 150 posts
Posted by KemacPrr on Wednesday, October 15, 2014 2:27 PM

The Walthers rotary dumper can be converted into an operating one but using the kit gearing will bring you heartache. It will last maybe 100 cars or so before the styrene gearing gives out. The car hold down method used by Walthers is unfortuneatly in the path of the dumped coal which causes problems after awhile. I tried years ago and gave up on the Walthers.

Walthers considered making the kit a working rtr model a few years back but gave up when they realized it would have to be completely redesigned for it to work properly.

For the past few years there has been a company called AAA Turntables at the Amhearst Springfield Mass. show in late January that had an O scale flood loader and rotary dumper available . I talked with them today and they will be offering a flood loader and rotary dumper in HO scale along with their O scale versions. These are not kits but rtr models. I have one of their turntables in HO scale and it is a very nice model. They have a web page but currently the HO scale items are not there. Just wanted to pass along the info for those that might be interested. ----   Ken

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Posted by BNSF UP and others modeler on Sunday, June 10, 2018 6:04 PM

The youtube channel NSmodeler24 had an motorized one that was pretty cool.

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Monday, June 11, 2018 6:23 AM

Necro'd thread I see.

A guy on TrainOrders posted his build - very impressive.

https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?3,4561437,4561437#msg-4561437

Rio Grande.  The Action Road

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