11x9 foot Around-The-Walls Layout

[Anonymous]

Hello! I am new to this forum and been railroading for several years. I have a new 11x9 foot layout that goes around the walls and I need some ideas about the trackplan. I have three railroad companys in mind:
1. BNSF Freight
2. Santa Fe Super Cheif
3. Metrolink (commuter railroad)

But the only problem with passenger lines is it just goes in a circle[:(!] and not interesting like freight service[:p]

Thank you very much!

-Aric

[leighant]

You picked a passenger train with a modeling problem, the Santa Fe Super Chief. It was a fairly long train, and ran on the same mainline with a whole fleet of different looking passenger trains. Would take a large layout to support.

I am trying to design a layout for an 11 x 9 foot space representing the island seaport of Galveston, end of the line, reached by a 2 mile long causeway from the mainland.

Pre-visualization of causeway from 9 sets of Atlas viaducts.

Trains originate and terminate at Galveston and have to be turned. An all-streamlined Texas Chief going out in the morning and its counterpart coming in in the evening. An all-heavyweight Ranger with lots of express running out at night, inbound in the morning.

Pre-visualization of passenger terminal.

"When" I get my deluxe Train Palace (special building or large room much larger than 9x11), this is the passenger sequence I want to model at a station that represents my version of Houston. Tell me it is not interesting....

Early in the morning, the Tex-Mex Express terminates at the big station, trailing a through Santa Fe sleeper from Laredo and Corpus Christi which is pulled off to make a Chicago connection.

A little later, the northbound Texas Chief comes in from Galveston. One baggage car from Galveston is switched out of the train and another baggage car and an RPO switched on. And the through sleeper off the Tex Mex is switched on.

WHILE the Texas Chief is in the depot, the Ranger comes in from the north. Most of the baggage and express cars are switched off. The Ranger stands in the depot while the Texas Chief departs northbound.

I will need two or three train lengths of double track north of the big city depot for this next part of the schedule. Every day on the prototype, the Texas Chief made a rolling meet with the California Special on double track as the Texas Chief left the city and the California Special came in. (Is this neat or what?) (Freight-only guys will say "what" I guess.)

The California Special comes into the depot and terminates alongside the Ranger. The Ranger waits for a few passengers from California to make cross-platform transfers before the Ranger departs for Galveston.

Then in the evening, the same interconnecting schedule happens in reverse except that the Ranger runs later after everything else. With these tight connections, with every passenger train having a slightly different consist every day based on through traffic and cars added for traffic variations, and all freight trains running as extras on a much looser schedule, it should make for an interesting layout.

[Anonymous]

Thank you very much leighant. Sounds like you will have a very interesting layout. I decided I won't do passenger service probaly because the trains are so long, and a commuter train wouldn't look good going in circles probaly. Would you recomend any other 1950's passenger trains that are shorter for a 9x11 foot layout? On your layout, will the layout go around the walls in a large circle or just go down a wall and pull into a station?

Thanks

[Anonymous]

I have two ideas in mind, I already have the equipment:

1950's:
Santa Fe f7
Santa Fe streamline cars (5)

2000's:
GP382 with freight cars, including intermodal cars, boxcars, and auto carriers

What do you think?

[leighant]

I am busy in grad school and haven't worked out detailed plans for my layout with all curve/ turnout alignments etc. But this is what I have in mind. I am modeling "as if" my layout was point to point with the Gulf Coast island end of the line is to the right. To the right is toward the Gulf, to the left is inland to (supposedly but not modeled) Houston, Fort Worth, Oklahoma City, Kansas City, Chicago.

One nine-foot "shelf"- about 18" deep would be the passenger station with 3 passenger train tracks, 2 covered platforms, 1 baggage and express track. Toward the back of the scene would be port cargo sheds just as they are at the real Galveston when you look at the passenger terminal (now a rr museum) from the southeast. Toward that back part of the scene would be a cargo shed spur and a switch lead, ie, the width of two lines of track. The top portions of ships visible over the top of the sheds.

Going around the walls to the left- an 11-foot shelf along one wall would be the main line lead to the passenger terminal, a Santa Fe freight yard and way to the back, several tracks wide, a yard area meant to look like the yard of the port switching railroad.
At the left end of this side, I would like to work in a reverse loop if at all possible. This reverse loop would be oriented BACKWARDS to normal layout planning. It would NOT allow a train coming to the island from the mainland to go forward straight through the loop and back out again where it came from. Rather it would allow a passenger consist that terminated head-in into the terminal to be pulled backwards by a switcher around the loop to turn in, to ready it for outbound departure. There was at one time a rather tight reverse loop around the back of the Santa Fe roundhouse that could be used for this purpose. This reverse loop could also be used to allow incoming passenger trains to stop outside the terminal, back around the reverse loop and back into the terminal. I have ridden on trains that did just this on a wye, but a reverse loop is often more space-efficient on a model rr layout. Third, the reverse loop could be used to turn multi-unit diesel lashups too long to turn on a turntable.

Continuing around the layout, a 9-foot shelf would contain a switching lead into the freight yard, possibly a continuation of the tracks around a curve for a little length. This is also where I might be able to work in some structure scenes and industries that I want to treat differently than "against the wall" flats.

The fourth side of the layout would have a 7 and one-half foot removable section for the causeway. I want as long a piece as possible for the water to be cast in one piece, but short enough to stand on end in a standard 8-foot ceiling room for storage, etc. Hence a rasther specific 7 1/2 foot length. At the corner curve just to the right (island) end of the causeway section, I want to work in some of Galveston's seaside oriented entertainment district, seashell and souvenir shops, amusement rides, etc.

Now on the fifth side of the four-sided room--- whoa-- how do we get five sides in a four-sided room? I want to run the track back against the background to run INSIDE the long cargo sheds. I would have one through track and two hidden passing sidings to store passenger trains. I want passenger trains to be hidden out of sight when they are supposedly "somewhere else" since they are so conspicuous. The cargo shed roofs would be easily removable for access.

Continuing onto the "sixth" side of the layout, actually the second time around on the second side... the track would come out from behind the sheds into a visible staging yard which would be scenicked to look like the port switching yard. Freight trains that have supposedly gone onto the mainland or that are coming from that direction are visible in the background but not obvious. One connection would allow continuous running for testing. It could also allow passenger trains to be run right around the reverse loop to turn between operation sessions.

I'll come back another time with suggestions on trains.

[leighant]

Model Railroader has had several articles on "Pike sized passenger trains" that occasionally featured Santa Fe trains.
The last days of the “Grand Canyon” in 1968 when it was shortened due to cancellation of the US mail contract, was portrayed in Model Railroader
Nov80 p.87

EASTERN EXPRESS (Lubbock-Amarillo) aka WEST TEXAS EXPRESS (Amarillo-Lubbock) was shown in Model Railroader May03 p.48 That train was a connection between the San Francisco Chief at Amarillo to carry a baggage car, a coach and a sleeper. The sleeper was switched onto the San Francisco Chief at Amarillo to carry through passengers to Chicago.

Santa Fe’s shorter trains were often connections that ran OFF the main Chicago to Los Angeles stem, or the Newton-Oklahoma City-Fort Worth-Houston-Galveston Texas line.

The “Oil Flyer” and the “Tulsan” connected with the transcontinental main line at Kansas City and ran off to Tulsa, Oklahoma. 5 to 8 cars.

A Dallas section of the “Texas Chief” broke away from the Texas mainline at Denton to run to Dallas. 7 cars.

In Colorado, trains broke away from the main line at La Junta to go to Denver.
The “El Pasoan”, an Albuquerque to El Paso, Texas train ran with four cars.

In Arizona, a 4 car train broke off from the main line at Ash Fork to provide a connection to Phoenix with 4 cars between 1959 and 1967.
Also in Arizona, a connecting train at Williams took 4 cars from the main line to the rim of the Grand Canyon. (By the way, the Santa Fe “Grand Canyon Limited” did NOT actually go to the Grand Canyon.)

The “Golden Gate” ran from Bakersfield to Oakland, with bus connections between Bakersfield and Los Angeles, and bus connections across the bridge from Oakland to San Francisco.

Finally, maybe best(?) the Santa Fe ran a fleet of “San Diegans” up and down the coast between Los Angeles and San Diegan with frequent service, even more so after Amtrak that during the pre-Amtrak times. Some were long but not always. The same line also mixed commuter trains with the intercity San Diegans. It might not be too much of a stretch to operate both at the same time.

What did these trains look like, what kinds of cars did they run? I have concentrated on trains that ran mostly lightweight streamlined cars in the later 1950s and into the 60s. Often they ran one heavyweight baggage-express car and maybe an express boxcars or express reefer. They usually had two or three coaches, often a sleeping car that was switched onto a mainline train at a connection. But rarely two sleepers. Occasionally a round end observation. A dining car and/or a snack car sometimes ran, or a coach snack car. Full bar lounge-dormitory cars were not often run on these trains because the runs were not long enough to require crews to stay aboard longer than 8 to 12 hours. (That wouldn’t matter a lot in N scale because I don’t think anybody makes a proper lounge-dormitory car.) One car you would NOT see on one of these trains would be a Vista-Dome. Santa Fe’s cars with the half-length domes, cars #500-505 with private dining in the exclusive Turquoise Room ran ONLY on the Super Chief. The full dome cars like Bachmann offers were run on such trains as the Chief, San Francisco Chief, sometimes Texas Chief, not on short-distance connecting trains.

[Anonymous]

I have a 7ft by 7ft around the walls switching layout that I am very happy with. With 2 extra feet, you could add a mainline connection or a Small terminal? I got my plans out of model railroader, and there are some good plans out there. I would recomend finding a small portside railroad or something and remodiling the trackplan to fit you're space. I hope I helped you

[Anonymous]

Thank you very much leighaunt and BAGRSboy, all your information really helped. BTW, Which edition of MR did you get the trackplans? Thank you