I was looking at the yard on my track plan and it all of the sudden hit me that I have devoted a large portion of my space to the yard - but then I'm a yard guy. The rest of the layout is to give me an excuse to have a yard (not really, but kinda). So it got me wondering how much real estate others are devoting to yards.
I have a mainline run of 165 feet. Of that, 45 feet (28%) of it is within yard limits.
How much of your layout is yard? Don't count multiple tracks - just the distance between the yard limit signs.
Edit: changed title do to objection of the copyright holder
I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.
As in noted in the blog post from which you (likely) took the title of the thread, it's hard to say if it is too much real estate or not out of the context of the rest of the plan.
Clients have built layout designs of mine that were virtually all yard, some that had no visible yard, and everything in between. And they all seem happy. So it doesn’t seem to me that there’s much meaning in comparing sizes of yards in layouts built with different concepts and purposes. If it works for you, it works.
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
Wow, it's not surprising that in a post that starts off accusing me of stealing your blog title (which I did not btw - maybe your blog is not as widely read as you assume) that you would tell me it's a stupid question.
And btw, I did not ask for any type of judgement on my ratio, I just said I was wondering what others are doing.
"does this yard make me look fat" really isn't all that clever. You shouldn't assume somebody else would come up with it independently.
Check this link and you'll see that "does this ___ make me look fat" has been used a few times before.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=does+this+*+make+me+look+fat
And LOL - I followed your link and read the post. Like you accuse me of plagiarizing your title, you issue a blanket accusation of other forum posters plagiarizing Armstrong and follow it up with a self-promoting revelation of the glaringly obvious. "It depends" DUH
Carl,you thief!
I wanted a long scenic run through the Rockies for a layout. My major "industry" was going to be a Rocky Mountain pusher station. That would be a good excuse to have lots of steam to move around. So my turntable, roundhouse and other parking and servicing tracks take up a lot more of the room than I had first envisioned. This bench is 6' x 18'. A lot of space devoted to the pusher/service station. I think any yard of size can dwarf the rest of the layout, unless you have a huge space.
An old pic.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
carl425Wow, it's not surprising that in a post that starts off accusing me of stealing your blog title (which I did not btw - maybe your blog is not as widely read as you assume) that you would tell me it's a stupid question.
To whom, exactly, is this post directed? I only see one post above yours, and there is nothing I can see in it that warrants this response.
My current layout has zero yard, unless you count the three feet single staging track. But, on a previous layout, my sole focus was the yard and engine service, so it was over 50% of the surface area devoted to the yard, with most of the rest devoted to either staging or the tracks leading into and out of staging. I'd say the ratio should depend on the focus of the layout.
jim
Max, it is aimed exactly at cuyma. If you read his post, he accuses me of stealing the title "does this yard make me look fat" from his blog post. Then he tells me I asked a stupid question which he clearly didn't take the time to understand. I didn't ask for a critique of what I was doing, I just asked for others to tell me what they are doing.
How would you interpret his post differently?
It appears to be a schoolyard fight between Carl and Byron.
That aside, in response to the OP's question, I have a 162 foot double mainline including a 22 foot long yard. So, his yard is twice as long as my yard. By no means do I consider my yard too big. Whether a 45 foot long yard on a 165 foot mainline is too long is purely subjective. Some will say yes, some will say no.
If you are really into yard operations, then it is not too long. In that case, it does not make your layout seem fat.
Rich
Alton Junction
richhotrainIt appears to be a schoolyard fight between Carl and Byron.
Sorry about that, I just can't take being falsely accused of stealing something that wasn't original in the first place.
I'll try to refrain from such behavior in the future.
Carl, don't worry about it. Back to your question, I think that a 45 foot long yard is just fine on your layout, particularly since you have indicated that you enjoy yard operations. Stick with your passion.
Carl425,
Forget about it...and move on, you're doing fine.
Like Rich, I had a long yard, basically for staging...20ft of it, eight track double ended...but with all the rolling stock sitting on it, with non use over a period of time, it did collect dust, which at my age, I really didn't want to give myself extra work, so I changed it to four track. This is in my finished attic with heat/AC and still has some dust, it's in the air we breath every day...that's one of the reason's why we have nose hair.
Have Fun!
Frank
I think the amount of a layout devoted to a yard (or any other scenic element) is up to the builders desires. For someone wanting long trains rolling through vast sceneery, even a small yard may take up "too much" space. For someone who wants to do a lot of switching, the yard can take up virtually the whole layout, maybe with the main going out os sight at one or both ends, so that trains go somewhere. One layout I visited was all switchyard. There were thoughts of having a continuous running loop, but limitations due to poor conditions in the cellar.
Whichever option the OP is leaning toward, I would recommend a view block or similar method to give trains a place to go, thus giving the layout a more realistic look.
Good luck,
Richard
I'm guessing over 70% of my main line parallels yard trackage [including the drill track]. When I gave a presentation on my layout at the 2006 National Train Show in Philadelphia, I jokingly sub-titled it "a Steel Mill with a Model Railroad attached."
In a 25x25ft garage, I don't have a whole lot of real estate for long main line runs. But it's plenty of space for me to model a 'slice' of a steel mill with its own yard, plus a regular classification yard and engine terminal - two of my favorite types of railroad scenes. However, I do like to see a single track main in a semi-rural setting. So as Richard [Cow Man] alluded to above, I put up a view brocker that hides a 15-foot long "country" main line from the rest of the layout; it gives me the best of both worlds!
-Ken in Maryland (B&O modeler, former CSX modeler)
Carl, my post was meant in a good-natured way and I asked an honest question about why it should matter what others do, making the important (to me, anyway) point that yard design depends on the concept and the builder’s interest.
Certainly didn’t mean to offend, sorry you took it that way. As you note, the play on words is not exactly unique.
carl425maybe your blog is not as widely read as you assume
There have been over 700 views of that particular post, I don't know or care whether that would be considered "widely read".
carl425"It depends" DUH
Thanks.
Signing off.
I don't see how I was "fighting" anyone, just making an observation. I am apparently not here often enough to understand the nuances of MR forum etiquette.
maxman carl425 Wow, it's not surprising that in a post that starts off accusing me of stealing your blog title (which I did not btw - maybe your blog is not as widely read as you assume) that you would tell me it's a stupid question. To whom, exactly, is this post directed? I only see one post above yours, and there is nothing I can see in it that warrants this response.
carl425 Wow, it's not surprising that in a post that starts off accusing me of stealing your blog title (which I did not btw - maybe your blog is not as widely read as you assume) that you would tell me it's a stupid question.
Now on to the question, I have a 180' mainline and two yards totaling less than 10', none of which runs paralel to the main.
To get back to the OP's original question, my main line is 68 ft. and my arrival/departure track, which is the longest track in the yard, is 10 ft. There is secondary track which parallels the main line for much of the layout.
I am working in a 10 ft. x 22 ft. space. The main line is loop to loop so when you look at the track plan the yard takes up more than half of the center of the layout along the long wall once the drill track is added in. The layout is a modified walk in 'U'.
By the way, I have to confess - I said last fall that I had started clearing space for my layout. No sooner had I cleared the space then my son decided to add to his exercise equipment collection. Finally he is working hard at finding a job in his field and moving out. The exercise equipment goes with him!
Edit: I don't want to seem to put my son in a bad light. He is not spoiled. I fully approved of his adding to his exercise equipment. I am proud of his efforts to be very fit. I lacked that motivation when I was younger and I am paying for that now. I'm fine with having to wait a little longer to begin building.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
When the track is in place on the upper level of the layout, I'll have about 230' of mainline and no on-layout yard. There are staging tracks, off-scene, which some might consider yards, but they're not meant for switching or sorting activity. Cars will be manually placed there in trains bound for the layout proper, while the cars in arriving trains will be manually removed and returned to storage. The staging tracks are on four levels, stacked one above another, and each offers track(s) 10' to 14' in length: one track on the lowest level, two on the second, five on the third and five or six on the highest.
The second level staging represents unmodelled industries, virtually unlimited in size and number, and there will be approximately 45 modelled industries on the layout itself, so I don't need yards for more switching activity.
Wayne
My largest yard is 24 feet long with the Drill Track.
With a 1000 foot mainline that works out to 2.4 %
Although I have one other yard on the Mainline and it is almost as long.
With 3 other Shortlines - they each have their own Yard to work out of too!
BOB H - Clarion, PA
My yard is over 20' long, about 10% of the layout.
With about 75 feet of mainline and an 8 foot long yard, that works out to about 10%. I assume you aren't asking cumulative linear footage. My 3 track yard would add up to about 20 feet cumulative or about 25%.
I run a shortline, and the yard is really for holding cars only. The class 1 drops longish cuts of cars. Since not every rail car gets delivered on the day it is dropped by the class 1, they are placed in the holding yard to clear the interchange track. Cars aren't always sorted before leaving the yard.
- Douglas
It has been a subject of editorials and magazine articles I've read over the past 25 years and some have criticized layouts with too much space dedicated to yard. Perhaps some think it's a bad idea but I say it's up to the modeler, after all, many of us have a lot of trains and want places for them to occupy on a layout. Certainly staging yards are a good place to store whole trains, which is why I designed my rather small layout with 11 tracks of staging (ranging from 13 feet to 20 feet). Over the top of staging will be a visible yard also. By golly I have gone to a lot of trouble to build a roster that reflects typical D&RGW traffic in the 70's and 80's and I want to put most of that on the rails.
Cheers, Jim
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
The basics of my layout:
o - 230' of mainline run
o - 25' wall devoted to the 'yard'
o - over 90' of helix
o - staging takes another 25'
o- 95' is 'on stage' viewing
I do not think the percentage of 'yard' is something that can be measured as a '+/-' metric. For an 'operational' layout, there needs to be space for switching out trains. In my case, that yard is not a classification yard - Just a 'wide' point on the mainline with 4 tracks. Two locals 'live' there and service a branch line and two mainline towns.
There is nothing 'wrong' with a layout that is all yard. Some folks like terminal areas and that is what they model. Others model mountain climbing vistas - it's all in the eyes of the beholder!
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
I can't quote exact measurements, but when I added the a new 12' section I included space for a 10' yard - it isn't big enough. So, I have two major fall/winter projects - adding a new reversing loop and figuring out a way to increase yard space. They do eat up space.
There's never time to do it right, but always time to do it over.....
Like a couple of others, I have virtually no yard. I model a short line devoted to ore hauling in and around WWII. The railroad's home base is the naturita-nucla area and a 3 siding yard is the big operations center with two additional tracks for engine house and maintenance area. A single siding is at each major mining pickup point. A single mainline with no passing sidings. Dull, homely, but rather busy as was all wartime traffic involving critical materials.
If I can't fix it, I can fix it so it can't be fixed
My visible mainline yard (lead and bowl tracks) suffers from severe anemia - on a layout with about 165 feet of first main track I have six yard tracks, each with 42 inches or so between the clearance point and the end-of-track bumper. It's sort of an adjunct to a major engine change station that has more total track adjacent to the high passenger platforms.
In the netherworld my passenger staging is a double-ended yard which runs about twelve feet between the yard limit signs that aren't there. The two back-in yards are reached by crossovers and don't parallel the main tracks (which pass by on 2% grades.)
By stretching a point to (and possibly beyond) its elastic limit you might call my top-of-the-valley colliery a yard. It doesn't quite measure an honest 78 inches from home signal to the farthest visible end-of-track bumper. The facility at the bottom of the hill, 50 feet away as the teakettle 0-6-0Ts fly, is equally pathetic.
My primary interest is the creative civil engineering required to put rails into places where the scenery stands on edge. My prototype didn't have much in the way of yards either.
Anyone who wants to make up and break up through freights would find my yard extremely frustrating. That's not its purpose. The long freights are just passing through. Those that drop a block of cars only leave six 4-wheel wagons. The center 40% of the train is never, ever switched. The locals which do originate and terminate here are limited to 12 4-wheelers. By far and away, the passenger business is the traffic generator, accounting for about 75% of the scheduled train movements.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)