Replacement for Permascene in Sassi Book?

[cwaldman]

I know I read elsewhere, (maybe even another forum site) that like me, others are having trouble finding Permascene that Lou Sassi recommends for his Gound goop concoction in his scenery book.

I was wondering if anyone could give an alternative, or explain what it is exactly so I could research to find an alternative.

Perhaps you can make the Goop without itBLOCKED SCRIPTinsertsmilie('[?]')

Cletus

[CNJ831]

I'd have to say that commonly available Sculptamold probably comes pretty close. I've used it many times, replacing about half the volume of water with earth-colored, waterbased, paint. Its slightly gritty texture when dry makes a good base for further scenicking.

CNJ831

[cwaldman]

thanks for the info. I know that I have used Sculptamold. Sometime in the mixture, but was unsure what Permascene is as I never used that. Sculptamold helps the mixture set up faster anyway.

Cletus

[cwaldman]

I just got a reply to the same question I had from Lou Sassi himself. Here is what he suggests:

--------------------cut---------------

Permascene is no longer available...Use Vermiculite...It can be found in almost any well stocked hardware store or garden supply center.  I bought mine at an Aubuchon Hardware Store.  It is made by the New Era Plant Clinic, Clinton Nursery Products, Clinton, Ct., 06413 although other brands should work just as well.

 LOU

there you go!
Cletus

[rexhea]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cwaldman

I just got a reply to the same question I had from Lou Sassi himself. Here is what he suggests:

--------------------cut---------------

Permascene is no longer available...Use Vermiculite...It can be found in almost any well stocked hardware store or garden supply center. I bought mine at an Aubuchon Hardware Store. It is made by the New Era Plant Clinic, Clinton Nursery Products, Clinton, Ct., 06413 although other brands should work just as well.

LOU

there you go!
Cletus

Lou,
I also have been stuck about permascene, but what is Vermiculite? Would you find it at Home Depot or Lowe's and which dept would I look?
Thanks,

REX

[cwaldman]

Lou isn't probably folowing this thread. I emailed him the questions and cut and pasted his reply.

So this is Cletus speaking....... I Googled Vermiculite. It is probably going to be those softish white things in plants I think. Maybe not. Here are the links to some of those sites.

<http://www.schundler.com/hort.htm> and <http://www.vermiculite.net/>
http://www.schundler.com/hort.htm http://www.vermiculite.net/

"Essentially vermiculite is a member of the phyllosilicate group of minerals, resembling mica in appearance. It is found in various parts of the world, but currently the major mines are located in South Africa, China, Brazil, Zimbabwe, and the United States. The largest operating mines today are located in the Palabora region of North-Eastern Transvaal in South Africa, in the northwestern corners of China, and along the eastern Appalachian range in the United States (Virginia and South Carolina). The vermiculite ores from these mines are different forms of hydrated phlogopite or biotite mica which has the remarkable ability of being able to expand to many times its original volume when heated---a property known as exfoliation."

Cletus

[Anonymous]

huh?

[cwaldman]

I imagine it is those little white things that you see in potting soil to aerate the ground. OR something along those lines.

If that is what the HUH? meant? Or perhaps it was the overall quote from the website that confuses you. It does me also to be honest.


Cletus

[Anonymous]

I'm sorry. I'm trying to figure out what Vermiculite is. Can I walk into Home Depot and ask for "vermiculite?" What do I say when the guy looks at me and says "what?" What is it used for? Is there any trade name for the stuff?

Permascene was great stuff!! Used a bunch of it on my very first layout when I was in Jr. High School.

[Anonymous]

Look in the garden department in Home Depot or any hardware store that sells lawn care stuff. You mix it into certain types of soils when planting a garden. It looks like little white beads.

[rexhea]

Thanks Cletus,
I remember seeing white specks in some potting soil. Maybe that's it. Don't know how the goop ends up looking with it, but if I can find it I will give it a try. I hate to tell Lou Sassi that there is a contact glue named GOOP. Yukky stuff like the name. It reminds me of Walthers Goo, but stronger.

While we"re on goop, what is the purpose of the concentrated Lysol?

REX

[jrbarney]

Back in the 1940s, vermiculite was sold as pour-in insulation. I helped my father pour the contents of several large bags between the joists in the house we lived in. As I recall, it was very lightweight, granular (about the size of rock salt), and had what appeared to be flecks of mica in it.
Bob
NMRA Life 0543

[cwaldman]

Yes it does look like little white beads. Lou says that it acts as a filler. Makes the celluclay go further and helps with drying time. He says that you can go away and come back several hours later and still work it. This is true. and he considers this an advantage. I would agree. Once you start messing with plaster, you are locked into a timeline.

Another thing I never knew, was that you can store the Ground Goop misture in a tupperware container "for years and not dry out or spoil" (with lysol added of course.)

I am beginning to see many benefits from using this mixture. One is that if it does take a while to dry, it is going to help me with my patients as I will have to wait before proceeding.

Cletus

[cwaldman]

I just picked up a bag of Vermiculite from Lowes tonight. It looks like a mix of dark and lighter sawdust. I thought it would be those little white ball like things you find in potting soil. But that is Perlite. Which is not what you want. This looks good and now it all makes sense.

Cletus

[davekelly]

Cletus - how big a bag did you have to buy? is there a trade name to look for?

[cwaldman]

The only type they had was called by Sta-Green. It is a horticultural Vermiculite. For planting and plants. It is to aerate the soil when added. But it is strictly just Vermiculite. Nothing else in the bag. the bag is red. the bag size is 8 dry quarts. It was around 2.79 a bag so I picked up two, but i think it will go a long way. I may not even need the second bag.

cletus

[Anonymous]

Cletus,

Thanks for the info!! Perascene was neat stuff and I was kinda upset to see it was no longer out there. Gonna go this weekend and get some Sta-Green if I get my other honeydos and round toits done. At that price it's no big deal if it doesn't work - I can just set it aside for next year's flower garden!! Wait - I'll say its for the flower garden and "borrow" some to play with. That way it doesn't come out of the hobby budget!

Seriously. Thanks for the info Cletus - I just know I'd do the Jackie Chan thing and totally screw up the pronunciation of Vermiculite if I asked for it by that name!

[cwaldman]

Well actually the brand is Sta Green. You still need to ask for Vermiculite, by Sta Green. Or any other brand. I hope you don't have trouble finding it if you ask for Sta Green,.

Cletus

[mrgstrain]

I just got some at LOWES (STA GREEN) Vermiculite, red bag,sure don't look like sawdust looks more like tiny rocks with some mica, but feels more like sawdust.
Larry

[cacole]

Vermiculite is a very lightweight form of mica that is used primarily as insulation in the buildling trades. Perlite is the white specks in potting soil, and is an entirely different material. Perlite is mined primarily in Arizona and is a form of volcanic a***hat contains so much moisture when extracted from the ground that it puffs up like popcorn when heated. Perlite would be unsuitable for use in model railroading because it naturally has a snow white color, whereas Vermiculite is brown with glistening specks of mica intermixed. Vermiculite can be crumbled up to the desired size for landscaping on a layout. Perlite just turns into a powder that would blow away before you could get it glued in place. I thought Perlite could be used as ballast on a G scale outdoor layout, but it blew away before I could even get it spread evenly. Permascene appears to be primarily Vermiculite.