Nothing wrong with using 2x4's esp if you have some on hand.
The downside; the weight. Makes the layout very heavy. Need more support for the extra weight. Might be a hard thing to move if you need to. The extra cost. 1x is cheaper than 2x4's
2x4's are just plain heavy and overkill for holding up a layout. However, if you cna find straight enough ones, there's no problem using them.
I can't find straight 2x2's anywhere around here, so I made my legs with a 1x3 and a 1x2 L shape, and used a short peice of 2x2 at the bottom of each one to provide a palce to screw in a leveling foot.
If I had a table saw I'd probably consider using 3/4" birch plywood cut down to make dimensional pieces, even though this means a corner block to fasten the crosspieces to the sides.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
rrinker If I had a table saw I'd probably consider using 3/4" birch plywood cut down to make dimensional pieces, even though this means a corner block to fasten the crosspieces to the sides. --Randy
This maybe the best suggestion if you have a tablesaw. It can be quite challenging to find anything straight at the home center.
AJZI'm in the same stage too. Just came up from the basement.. 16x30 area. I'm thinking 2x4's for legs and 1x4 open grid in most areas. Gonna be a busy and fun project. If I can figure out how to post a pic I will.
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
I am building a large basement layout (30'x 60') and use modular dominoes constructed with 1 x 4 frames cut from 3/4" plywood and 1/2" plywood for the tops. I bolt the sections together with 1/4" bolts.
I use 2"x2" for the legs. I get the 2"x 2" at my big box store (Lowes or Home Depot) and have to sort through the stack to get straight pieces. I cut the 8' 2x2 in half making my layout 48" high. The 2x2 legs friction fit into pockets on the dominoes. The layout is very sturdy.
Jim, Modeling the Kansas City Southern Lines in HO scale.
I have a lot of experience building with wood. Using 2x4s is way overkill in this app. You will likely have to sort to get them, but 1x3 material, supplemented by 1x2 lumber, is plenty sufficient. I did use some 1x4s for the web on a couple of my long L-girders (~15').
If you're into overkill, the place to do it is the sub-roadbed. I use 3/4" plywood and do not regret the slight extra cost and hassle. 1/2" is adequate (if you are careful to properly support it with enough risers), but 3/4" combined with solid 1x3 underpinnings is a great combination.
Another good tip to build strong benchwork is to use screws in everything. I do it because I've got a bad shoulder, so use the square drive ones that avoids the need for extra pressure to drive the screw. That would all "drive" you nuts in the old days, but with drywall screws and cordless drills it is so much easier and better than before. Highly recommended is a second drill to use making pilot holes for the screws. When you're done, your benchwork will be plenty strong enough.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
The other thing is that 2x4's used as the longitudinal pieces and crossmembers will cover up twice the space underneath than 1x lumber - meaning more potential to interfere with undertable switch machines and so forth.
1x4 grid benchwork is strong enough to climb on, no worries there.
You do not want to use 2x4s. They are too heavy, and they are a construction product not at all suitable for furniture or cabinet construction. And you are, after all, building a table.
1x2s and 1x4s are all you need or want. You have to work with these things, and it is easier to drill a hole through a 1x4 than it is a 2x4. And you probably do want to pass cables through them. One one layout I built the table with members 12" apart. This is not good enough. They need to be at least 16 or 18" apart so that you can get a power drill between one member and the next.
Here are some pictures from my web site showing how I did my construction. The first pictures show the preparation of the lumber which came from a building that we had torn down and was stored in our barn for many years. It is best not to buy lumber if you have some in your barn. The old lumber is far better.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
Or you can be like me, and build your entire 16x6 layout benchwork with leftover wood that was in the garage, with the exception of the plywood. Of course that means the legs are 4x4's and the frame is a combination of 1x6 and 2x4's, but on the upside, it is sturdy enough to hold a fat man like myself on it with no worries.
JW
Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size, do you? Hmm? Hmm.
The books are correct. Take your 2x4's and rip them into 2x2's for the legs. 1x4's are more than enough for benchwork, 1x2's for bracing.
I was brought up using 2x4"s, then read lynn wescotts book on building Model Train Benchwork. Currently building a 26' x 42' around the wall O scale in my nephews using L girder, nothing heavier than 1x4 and 2x2's. With plenty of proper 1x2 bracing, it is more than sturdy. I'll never do the 2x4 thing again. Just my expierance. Good luck
David
Gidday, I 'd go along with the other saying that using 4 x 2 timber is over kill, I use 4 x 1 framing and 2 x 2 legs. However YOU have to be happy with how YOU go about things. That said when I first joined the club we had a "portable" ??? Marklin HO layout whose constructors had used 6 x 2 framing. We nicknamed it the "Bismarck".
Have Fun.
Cheers, the Bear.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
After using several types of material in my layout, my next one will be built out of 3/4" plywood ripped to what ever size is called for. Of course I have a table saw. I would not trust the Big Box stores to rip straight pieces.Plywood stays straight as apposed to dimensional lumber. I make the legs "L" shaped, Glue and air nailed the joint. (Don't have an air nailer)The long paneling nails would work , they are thin so you don't split anything and have ring shank. If you are screwing in to the end of a joist, pre-drill before screwing. If you look at the leg to beam joint you can see there is a lot of strength in it. The legs are rigged. I shim the table level then drop a 2 X 2" inside the leg and drywall screw it in place. No need for levelers and if need be can be re adjusted.I make, what could be called a "C" beam and if one wants "neatness" can lay your wires inside the "C".This plywood (for cost consideration) is not cabinet grade but was a very good for smoothness and density
Just my
Merry Christmas.
Lee
I used mostly 2"x4" lumber for the legs and support of the layout, although some of it is 2"x6" and 2"x8". Somebody "accidentally" ordered too many 2"x4"s when building his own house, although the larger stuff really was left-over. While it would normally be considered overkill, most of the under-layout area is used for storage of non-train-related stuff, including household items, lumber, and tools. Much of this has fully-framed (16"o/c) 2"x4" shelving with plywood surface. Most of the support legs are also 2"x4", although some are 4"x4", and all of it is lag-bolted to the wall studding. The lumber, for the most part, is sized to match its intended use. However, 2"x4"s and other dimensional lumber are generally unsuitable for the actual tabletop: most aren't all that straight, and none are sufficiently dry to remain stable after you've added roadbed and track.I used mostly 1"x4" select pine for my open grid top, and hand-picked it to get the straightest pieces with the fewest knots. Any 1"x2" used (the second level, when it's finally built, will be framed in 1"x2" and covered with 1/2" plywood) is also "select grade", and is straight, knot-free, and dry). Everything was put together with screws, in manageable section lengths, then lifted onto the supporting benchwork and screwed into both the benchwork and the wall studs. Even though I don't own a table saw, I'd consider building open grid in ripped 3/4" plywood, but that would be mainly a cost option. Don't make the mistake of using cheap 1"x2" or 1"x4" strapping lumber - it's simply ripped 2"x4"s, with lots of knots, sap, and missing or irregular edges.
Wayne
Having been in the construction business and this hobby all my life, I have a few thoughts about building bench work.
Buy the best lumber you can. Rather than making lumber from plywood, I prefer to use clear 1x Poplar.
It is better than pine, readily available these days and costs only a little more than the best pine.
It is stronger, straighter (and will stay that way) is much nicer to work with.
I approach bench work similar to cabinet work, but I have a nice table saw, chop saw, and lots of other power tools.
As for installing screws, the best tool is a flip bit or other interchangeable tip system that allows one drill to quickly do both pilot drilling and driving the screws - makes more sense than buying two drills.
2x4's are framing lumber, they are not milled to close tolerances and even the best of them are seldom very straight/true for this kind of work.
Sheldon
ATLANTIC CENTRALBuy the best lumber you can. Rather than making lumber from plywood, I prefer to use clear 1x Poplar.
WHY? Unless it's going in your living room are you have a lot of money to waste?Yes, I have built cabinetry and trim work as a business for high end customers for close to 40 years.
Merry Christmas
I have quick cnage bits in my drill/driver - and I will not do any more construction without getting a second one. It's SO much handier to have one with the drill and one with the screwdriver bit. Trying to change bits with one hand while holding the joint with the other - major fail.
yankee flyer ATLANTIC CENTRALBuy the best lumber you can. Rather than making lumber from plywood, I prefer to use clear 1x Poplar. WHY?Unless it's going in your living room are you have a lot of money to waste?Yes, I have built cabinetry and trim work as a business for high end customers for close to 40 years. Merry Christmas Lee
WHY?Unless it's going in your living room are you have a lot of money to waste?Yes, I have built cabinetry and trim work as a business for high end customers for close to 40 years.
Because it is faster than ripping all that plywood, and if you use good plywood the cost is about the same. Every time I get quotes for Poplar vs Select Clear Pine, they are within pennies - Wasted money?
Ripping decent plywood and the alternate attachment methods needed with plywood equals similar cost and much more time.
And in my case I am building modules to be movable at a later date - furniture grade construction is an asset in that.
I do historic restoration consulting, design, project management and construction, including custom trim carpentry and cabinetry, and we use Poplar for most all custom mill work these days. It paints well, and can be stained to look like almost anything except oak.
Again, as model railroad bench work it is simply nice wood to work with - that you don't have to "pick thru" to find the usable pieces.
Around here, neither the home centers or the real lumber yards have decent pine, but for just pennies more they have perfect Poplar. And all the custom mill work houses around here have Poplar at great prices.
I don't recall ever seeing poplar here, but we seem to send our best lumber to the States.
I've had good luck getting clear pine at a local lumber yard.
If you are planning to rip sheets of plywood into dimensional lumber a good set of saw horses and a handheld circular saw would be easier than wrestling a 90 lb sheet of plywood onto a table saw. A clamp on straight edge or decent fence for the circular saw would make short work of ripping the 4 x 8 s into widths you want.
Hi!
Lots of good comments so far!
My current and previous 11x15 HO layout used 2x2s braced with ripped in half 1x4s. They are half the weight of 2x4s, and work fine in an enclosed 2nd story room. If the layout was in a basement/garage or a heavily supported 1st floor room, I would not hesitate to use 2x4s.
Of course one has to factor in a few things - like the ultimate size of the layout, is it there for the long run, will folks be crawling all over it, etc., etc.
One other thought...... You could use the 2x4s for primary supports, like corners or edges, etc., and use 1x4s or 2x2s for all other supports.
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
I think 2X4s is over kill, somewhat wasteful and way to heavy. I used 2X2 for legs, 1X2s for scissor braces and diagonals for the legs and 1X3s glued and screwed together for the L-Girders. The risers for the track bed are 1X2s. My bench tops are 1/2 inch plywood with cork road bed and Homasote in the yards.
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
doctorwayne I don't recall ever seeing poplar here, but we seem to send our best lumber to the States. I've had good luck getting clear pine at a local lumber yard. Wayne
Poplar is mostly logged in the central and southern Appalachians. Every Lowes, Home Depot, wholesale lumber distributor, custom mill work house and general lumber yard here in the Mid Atlantic has tons of it.
I built a layout in the 1980's that was basically three 4x8 sections with connecting pieces to make an 8x16 layout with two access hatch areas. The 4x8 sections were built using Linn Westcott's book as a guide, L-girder construction using 2x2 legs, 1x3 supports, and 1x2s used to make the L-girders. I tested each section by getting up on the flat plywood top. At the time I weighed over 300 lbs. and it held my weight with no trouble.
+1 for birch plywood benchwork. Working with it is sweet.
Alan
Freelancing the LK&O Railroad
3/4" plywood might be nice if you need to sit/lay/walk on it. But if not, plenty of people use 2" foam or 1/2" plywood decking with great success. Others use hollow core doors for decking, with no support except at the ends/edges of each door. If you need to cut down an HCD, you will need to insert wood blocking to support the the skins at the cut edge. You can also use hollow core slab bi-fold doors down to 12" in width (each piece, just remove the hinges). All are standard 1-3/8" thick and 80" long.
Andy
I use 2 X 3's for legs and find them perfectly adequate. As far as the rest of the wood goes, I think a lot has to do with the type of construction one is using. If L-girder benchwork is being constructed regular #2 pine is, in my opinion, good enouigh.