Securing track to foam

[Anonymous]

What's the best way to secure track to 1" polystyrene foam when the track is laid directly on to the foam ? Track spikes do not hold very well in to the foam. Thanks

[jwmurrayjr]

I use Elmer's white glue. Use "T" pins and small pieces of foam to hold the track in place until the glue dries (Usually overnight).


(The photo shows cork roadbed but it works the same with track directly on the foam.)
[:)]

[der5997]

dentrainman: I've used white glue. There is a downside to this if you don't have some support under the foam, like 1/2 inch ply or similar. That is the foam acts like a speaker diaphragm! This means lots of noise when your trains are on that section.
the upside of white glue is that it is water based. So, when you want to move your track (and you will [sigh]) all you have to do is to soak the track under a fairly well wetted towel until the glue shows white again. Take up th etrack, scrape off as much of the glue as you need to from the foam, and reglue the track. \I found that weighting the track down with wood blocks carrying heavy things (books, cans of food, etc) helps.
This

was acheived through this


More photos of this layout's construction at www.railimages.com/gallery/johnwood

Hope this helps.

[orsonroy]

I've successfully used white glue, wood glue, Liquid Nails and silicone caulk. I've UNsuccessfully used spray adhesive (three types) and carpet tape.

I prefer using the caulk. A single tube goes a LONG way, it's workable for 1/2 hour or so, and works as a sound deadener (a plus on foam layouts, as mentioned above). Once the track's down, I hold it on place with push pins.

[der5997]

QUOTE: Originally posted by orsonroy

I've successfully used white glue, wood glue, Liquid Nails and silicone caulk. I've UNsuccessfully used spray adhesive (three types) and carpet tape.

I prefer using the caulk. A single tube goes a LONG way, it's workable for 1/2 hour or so, and works as a sound deadener (a plus on foam layouts, as mentioned above). Once the track's down, I hold it on place with push pins.

Couple of questions:
How well does the caulk take ballast, and what sort of paint? (that's all one question [:D])

How do you reposition the track if you have to?

Forgot to say that semi-successful, the 3M double sided tape that is used for putting up plastic sheet for double glazing windows. I wouldn't recommend it, but it does work to a degree.

[Javern]

i spred the caulk very thin to hold the track and then ballast as usual with scenic cement. There are several different colors of caulk out there from white, grey, black, etc.
Get the latex based caulks and they are paintable with most any paint. Since I use a very thin layer of caulk the track can be taken up easily with out destroying the track or foam base.

[der5997]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Javern

i spred the caulk very thin to hold the track and then ballast as usual with scenic cement. There are several different colors of caulk out there from white, grey, black, etc.
Get the latex based caulks and they are paintable with most any paint. Since I use a very thin layer of caulk the track can be taken up easily with out destroying the track or foam base.

Thanks for the tip. Pity I've laid all my track for now[:D]

[Anonymous]

I tested 10 products: O gauge track to styrofoam for elasticity, adhesion & ability to remove from the metal tie.
the most adherant is PL300 but it cannot be removed from the metal tie and sets quickly, about 30 minutes.
The ideal adhesive is 'DAP all purposed adhesive caulk'. it is strong, viscous (not watery like elmer glue) & elastic.The viscousity spans a gap between the foam & tie of 3/32". It is easily removed from ties.
Titebond is watery, strong, brittle rather than elastic & difficult to remove from metal.
Hope that this helps.

[ondrek]

I have yet to lay my track so this thread is perfect for me....

how much sound dampen is achieved when the track is laid on the cork on the foam vs track right on the foam?
which would be better? cork on foam or the woodland scenic foam track bed on the foam?

I was going to use wood glue, but now the mention of the caulk is interesting....hmmm

anybody heard of Mountain modelcraft? they have some item called base paste, from info on their website, they use it to adhear the track, bed, and then also for adhearing the turf too...anyone ever use that stuff?

kevin

[ondrek]

Another question....any reason why the white bead board foam is worse than the blue of pink foam? I know its not as strong, but otherwise any reason not to use it? I have two 2'x8' sheets left over from a project that i was thinking of using for my layout.

thanks

kevin

[orsonroy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ondrek
how much sound dampen is achieved when the track is laid on the cork on the foam vs track right on the foam?
which would be better? cork on foam or the woodland scenic foam track bed on the foam?

I was going to use wood glue, but now the mention of the caulk is interesting....hmmm

The biggest issue I've seen with foam and noise amplification has come from two sources: support and adhesives used. If a layout isn't properly supported under the foam, the foam base acts like a drum, amplifying sounds. And rigid adhesives also help transmit engine noise to the foam. The loudest example of a foam layout was unsupported foam with track and roadbed glued in place with wood glue. I ran a Mantua Mike over the layout, and it sounded like a blender on high!

That's the primary reason I use 1/4" plywood under my foam and caulk to hold down track. I use wood glue for most of my adhesive needs, and started to glue track down with it before I decided to try out caulk. There's a noticeable sound difference between the two areas on my layout, which is actually pretty quiet all-around.

So it doesn't really matter which roadbed you use: glue either down with wood glue or some other rigid adhesive, and you'll end up with a noisier layout.

[orsonroy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ondrek

Another question....any reason why the white bead board foam is worse than the blue of pink foam? I know its not as strong, but otherwise any reason not to use it? I have two 2'x8' sheets left over from a project that i was thinking of using for my layout.

Realistically, white beaded foam is OK to use as material to build scenic contours like hills and mountains. Go ahead and use it if you've got it. Definitely do NOT use it as a base layer however. The extruded foam is ten times stronger than beadboard, meaning you can walk, lean and beat on it without it giving way. Step on or lean heavily on a piece of beadboard, and you'll go right through it.

[ondrek]

QUOTE: Originally posted by orsonroy
[The biggest issue I've seen with foam and noise amplification has come from two sources: support and adhesives used...

Ok, so i will go with the caulk, what brand are you using and how thick to you lay it down under the road bed?

[:0]woops, [:0]i was thinkning of using the bead board as my base, i figured that i could dig a river in it easier than the blue board. i dont plan on standing on it. I was going to make a wood frame around it and under the bead borad was going to be a sheet of 1/4" luan plywood. thats no good[?]

thanks

Kevin

[orsonroy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ondrek
Ok, so i will go with the caulk, what brand are you using and how thick to you lay it down under the road bed?

The brand doesn't matter, so long as the stuff's silicone caulk adhesive. I generally use Ace Hardware clear, since I can pick it up for under $2 a tube. And a little goes a LONG way. I laid about 130 linear feet of track with two tubes! I mark the centerline of the track, lay a small bead of caulk onto the centerline, and smear the bead around with a 1.5" wide trowel. We're talking about less than 1/16" worth of caulk here. Once I've gotten the caulk smeared, I lay the track and hold it down with pushpins until the caulk is dry (about an hour or two).

QUOTE:
[:0]woops, [:0]i was thinkning of using the bead board as my base, i figured that i could dig a river in it easier than the blue board. i dont plan on standing on it. I was going to make a wood frame around it and under the bead borad was going to be a sheet of 1/4" luan plywood. thats no good[?]

Weeeelllllll.........so long as you've got a plywood underbase, you should be alright. And actually, blue or pinkboard is easier to carve than beadboard. The little beads act as ball-bearings while you're carving or sanding it, meaning that you don't get a solid cut every time.

And you shouldn't need the wood frame around the foam unless you're building a modular or portable layout. My entire 12x25, three level layout has exposed foam sides and I haven't had problem one with them. Cutting down on the amount of wood you use on your layout means more ca***hat STAYS in your wallet!

[ondrek]

QUOTE: Originally posted by orsonroy
[

Ok, so the silicone is ok, i have that already. someone in this thread said to use laytex, is there a difference?

I was going to put a frame around the foam because i have two small kids, and once they notice that the edge of the layout is soft and brakeable, it might start being worked on by them.....plus being in the house, the edge should be protected from the ocasional bump of the vacum hose as the floor is being cleaned.

So, I will lay down a spread of silicone caulk on the foam, lay the roadbed and then can the caulk be used to adhear the track to the roadbed? or should i ues those tiny track nails?

Kevin

[orsonroy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ondrek
Ok, so the silicone is ok, i have that already. someone in this thread said to use laytex, is there a difference?

Not usually. There are a few brands of acetone-based caulks on the market, but the vast majority are silicone-based, which are completely foam-safe.

QUOTE:
I was going to put a frame around the foam because i have two small kids, and once they notice that the edge of the layout is soft and brakeable, it might start being worked on by them.....plus being in the house, the edge should be protected from the ocasional bump of the vacum hose as the floor is being cleaned.

Makes a lot of sense now!

QUOTE:
So, I will lay down a spread of silicone caulk on the foam, lay the roadbed and then can the caulk be used to adhear the track to the roadbed? or should i ues those tiny track nails?

Nails won't stick in foam at ALL. Use more caulk. In fact, I generally only use caulk for the track to roadbed glue joint, while using wood glue for all my other foam to foam gluing needs. I'll be trying caulk as a general adhesive once I get to the next terrain building session (sometime this winter, I hope!)

[ondrek]

QUOTE: Originally posted by orsonroy
Nails won't stick in foam at ALL. Use more caulk. In fact, I generally only use caulk for the track to roadbed glue joint, while using wood glue for all my other foam to foam gluing needs. I'll be trying caulk as a general adhesive once I get to the next terrain building session (sometime this winter, I hope!)

Ok, one last newbie question..
when using the caulk on the roadbed to hold it down, while its still wet, could i sprinkle the balast on it? it would stick, so my thought is yes, but want to ask...I will test out on a small 2" section tonight.

This is great advise, I really appriciate your help.

Kevin

[rrinker]

I was under the impression that silicone-based caulk would cause problems with future scenic layers like the ballast adhering, or cause interactions with other materials like the plastic of the track ties. For this reason I am sticking to latex-only caulk (some is a blend). Plus, the pure latex stuff is usually the cheapest.

[orsonroy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ondrek
Ok, one last newbie question..
when using the caulk on the roadbed to hold it down, while its still wet, could i sprinkle the balast on it? it would stick, so my thought is yes, but want to ask...I will test out on a small 2" section tonight.

It's worth looking into, but I highly doubt it. I've never tried it, since ballasting is the dead-last thing I do to a section of layout before it's done. I have tried all sorts of "miracle" track laying techniques and adhesives, and none really allow you to lay the track and ballast at the same time with any sort of success.

QUOTE:
This is great advise, I really appriciate your help.

Kevin

No problem Kevin; that's what these forums are for!

[orsonroy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrinker

I was under the impression that silicone-based caulk would cause problems with future scenic layers like the ballast adhering, or cause interactions with other materials like the plastic of the track ties. For this reason I am sticking to latex-only caulk (some is a blend). Plus, the pure latex stuff is usually the cheapest.

Silicone caulk has presented me with NO problems so far. No foam or plastic has melted, and I've used it with success on blue foam, pink foam, and at least four track brands. I've also ballasted over it without any problems (Woodland Scenics ballast, alcohol and white glue), and have successfully airbrushed Polly Scale onto the track without it being effected by anything the caulk might have outgassed. So far, I've got track that's been caulked down for six months without problem one.

[ondrek]

Originally posted by orsonroy
[t's worth looking into, but I highly doubt it. I've never tried it, since ballasting is the dead-last thing I do to a section of layout before it's done. I have tried all sorts of "miracle" track laying techniques and adhesives, and none really allow you to lay the track and ballast at the same time with any sort of success.
quote]

I am going to try it over the weekend. and see what happens.

i have stuff i can try this out on.

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