For some years now, I have used Woodland Scenics Foam Track Bed as my roadbed.
I have recently considered moving to cork on my next layout.
What other materials do you use for roadbed?
Rich
Alton Junction
I use funny foam available at Michaels and Hobby Lobby. I made a jig to cut it like the one in the October 2010 MR article on making your own roadbed. I used the slightly thicker 3mm. They also have a 2 mm. You are limited to 18" in length as that is the largest the sheets are made. Glue it with caulking and pin it until dry. It has worked well for me and is the cheapest by foot available.
How about cement or a steel stud.
Or spline. Track caulked directly to the spline that has tapered shoulders. Talk about inexpensive roadbed.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
There is also a roadbed product called Homa-Bed made by California Roadbed Company. It is Homasote that has been cut down to the same profile as the WS foam roadbed and cork.
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.
richhotrain For some years now, I have used Woodland Scenics Foam Track Bed as my roadbed. I have recently considered moving to cork on my next layout. What other materials do you use for roadbed?
I have tried the following: cork (3 layouts), directly on plywood, Upson board, redwood and pine strips, Homasote. Keep in mind that some of my track is handlaid, some is a combination of sectional and flex.
my thoughts and experiences, your choices
Fred W
My favorite roadbed is Homabed - it is also one of the most expensive. If you are hand laying track, it is the best material to spike into. And you do not have the 'mess' of cutting Homasote sheet stock!
Cork - I use cork for all of my sidings/spurs/yard tracks. It is 3/16" thick and is a little lower that the 1/4" Homabed. I use a Stanley 'Surform' tool to build a transition from the Homabed to the cork - It is very nice to see a freight 'drop' down into the siding just like the real thing. I sand all of my cork to re move the 'edge' and I have never had a problem with it 'crumbling' - I think a dry climate or lack of ballasting may contribute to this issue.
Tru-Scale wood roadbed - I used this back in the late 60's when I hand laid nickel-silver code 70 on Campbell 'profile' ties - worked fine, but there were no easments to the curves.
Woodland Scenics 'foam' roadbed. I won a '25' roll at division meet. It laid down fine, but I could not feather it with a Surform like the cork - it 'tears' and becomes ragged. My roll is buried in a couple of yard tracks under Arizona Rock & Mineral 'yard mix' ballast.
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
After reading the article in the Model Railroader special edition on How to Build Realistic and Reliable Track, I am considering the use of camper tape, overlaid with cork. This roadbed system would require adhesive caulk for both roadbed and track, but it seems like it would be a very good system for providing excellent soundproofing. I do not handlay track so holding spikes is not an issue for me, and the sound deadening quality of homasote (which I used on my last layout) leaves a lot to be desired.
Anyone have any experience with this roadbed combintaion they can share?
Fred
I don't understand this thing about the cork turning to dust?!
I have pieces to cork roadbed that over 20 years old and they have not turned to dust - BRITTLE - but not DUST!
And as for hand laying track - I must be misunderstanding this too
I was under the impression that one placed the spikes into the wood ties and -
the wood ties were GLUED to the sub-base - whether it was Cork - Homasote or Wood
At least that is the way so many articles have shown it done for years in the Model Magazines!
BOB H - Clarion, PA
fwright I have tried the following: cork (3 layouts), directly on plywood, Upson board, redwood and pine strips, Homasote. Keep in mind that some of my track is handlaid, some is a combination of sectional and flex. cork. Never, ever again I remind myself when I get tempted in the LHS. Cork is easy and cheap. It also needs to have edges and uneven spots sanded. Most importantly, it eventually crumbles into dust (in my experience). This is of course deadly to handlaid track (spiked construction). When new, cork is very "giving" and doesn't hold handlaid track in place as well as I would like. my thoughts and experiences, your choices Fred W
cmrproducts And as for hand laying track - I must be misunderstanding this too I was under the impression that one placed the spikes into the wood ties and - the wood ties were GLUED to the sub-base - whether it was Cork - Homasote or Wood At least that is the way so many articles have shown it done for years in the Model Magazines! BOB H - Clarion, PA
My experience is that HO ties are too thin and soft to be the sole holder of the rail spike. A spike needs to go through the tie and into the firm roadbed (just a little) to provide enough lateral support to the spike to prevent movement of the rail when loaded (think heavy die cast locomotive on a curve).
I understand that in O, the ties do have enough "meat" to hold the spike on their own. The roadbed underneath is not nearly so critical then, as you imply.
Glued rail and soldered rail also do not have to have a roadbed for spiking into - the glue or solder and the gluing of the ties is sufficient. But I've also heard tales of glued rail letting go under stress.
Yes, after becoming brittle, cork then starts to disintegrate by crumbling into little pieces. If the track is in place on the layout, the ballast or track glue will hold the cork together. But when I pull it up, it falls apart in little pieces. In my past, the cork became brittle in a 2-5 years, and crumbled by year 10. Others claim not to have had such a poor track record with cork.
my thoughts, your choices
I appreciate the replies to my question.
The more that I read about cork and other roadbed materials, the more I like the idea of staying with Woodland Scenics Foam Track Bed on my next layout.
My main objection to the foam is my own doing since I nail my track through the foam roadbed into the plywood surface of my layout. If you nail too deeply, you create dips in the track and pull the rails out of gauge. If you don't nail sufficiently, the track can still move around.
So, to me, the answer in my case is to stick with the foam roadbed but use caulk instead of nails to secure the roadbed to the plywood surface and the track to the roadbed. Cork just seems fraught with problems.
I have been using cork roadbed for the past 10 years. I tried homasote but it was too dusty when cut and did not do a lot when it came to decreasing the noise of the train on the track. It does work well with hand laying track if that is your thing. It accepts the small spikes without a problem. I have used foam for some scenery areas but have no experience with it as roadbed.
Craig North Carolina
As usual, I'm something of a contrarian - since I don't use any commercial 'roadbed' products. My roadbed/ballast former is thin extruded foam (sold as fan-fold underlayment for vinyl and metal siding) cut to shape. I secure it to the plywood (or, sometimes, steel stud) subgrade with latex caulk, then caulk a full-scale track template to it (thin card stock, the exact outline of the ties) and caulk either flex or wood ties (for handlaid specialwork) to the template.
This combination is almost eerily quiet - which I attribute to the layering, moreso than to the specific materials. The wood ties/caulk/cardstock/caulk combination acts almost like good quality pine when it comes to holding spikes. Since one bundle of fan-fold underlayment = 200 square feet of material the price is a lot less than any commercial product. It also seems to be sufficiently consistent that I have never bothered to shim or sand joints (although I avoid using the part that isn't perfectly flat.)
Durability? Parts of my current layout have been in service for almost six years in rather severe conditions (high temperature, low humidity) that suck the moisture out of cork and forest products. Cork hardens and crumbles, while wood tends to assume exotic shapes unless solidly anchored and beaten into submission with steel. Don't know how glorified cardboard (Homasote or Upson board) would survive 120 degree heat and single-digit humidity - I haven't been tempted to use it.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
My N scale layout is approaching 20 years old and all I ever used was homasote. I picked up a 4x8 sheet at a home improvement store and tabled sawed it down into thin strips. Yes, there was a lot of dust. I then covered most of the layout with a deck sealer but found over the years that the raw homasote did not break, crack, dry out, crumble, collect moisture, expand or contract. The roadbed is held down only with watered down Elmer's glue. I used small nails only to hold it in place while the glue dried. (When I revamped part of my layout earlier this year, I had to use a Rockwell Sonic Crafter to scrape the roadbed off the table top it was so stuck.) And I can easily bend the two strip wide roadbed into nicely flowing curves. My Micro-Engineering code 70 flex track is held down with small spikes. I am actually impressed that the homasote has been so good as a roadbed for so long.
-Paul
richhotrain I appreciate the replies to my question. The more that I read about cork and other roadbed materials, the more I like the idea of staying with Woodland Scenics Foam Track Bed on my next layout.
When I got back into the hobby 6 years ago, I read every {well maybe not EVERY} post on the subject of road beds. ANd the WS faom came up a lot as preferred, though cork was the standard preferred.
SInce I choose to build my "table" out of extruded foam over an open gridwork plan {to be lightweight as we WILL be moving someday}, and was going to try the caulk method of attachment, I opted for teh WS foam roadbed.
Why?
I am not going to nail down my track, I use caulking. I had never heard of such a thing till I got on the forums here. I would have used good old glue. SO nailing is a moot point as to whether it disorts or holds well inthe WS foam.
I am not going to glue my track to it either. The caulk idea is a good one.Whoda Thunk?
I could find "sheet craft foam" at about exactly the same thickness for under switches and yard areas at A C Moore craft stores- just as easily as finding sheet cork to do the same.
It seems to me to deaden sound "good enough" for me over directly on the the extruded foam, though I admit I have not tried cork over same.
I read too much about cork dying out, and the foam shouldn't.
THE WS foam roadbed is nto as messy as homabed, homasote {which I also could not find around here} and cork to cut/fit into place.
Price was irrelevent when I choose,as I was going to buy either WS foam or cork no matter what.
It is up to you what you choose, but I am happy with the WS Foam.
When we get moved into a MRRing space with a house over it, I will build a newer bigger layout and will still use extruded foam over open grid and use the WS foam and craft foam for roadbed...As long as the craft sheet foam is still available.
Just my thoughts ideas and opinions on the subject, others may vary. Limit one per customer. Void where prohibited by law. Close cover before striking. No manufacturer's expire date. Do not use on or near water, as hazard may result. Keep out of reach of children. Do not wear while ironing.
-G .
Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.
HO and N Scale.
After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.
Caulk? How did I miss caulk? That really works? Learn something new every day.
Works wonders. Lay a small bead down the center line of where your putting the track, then spread it about track width. Use T-pins to hold the track while the caulking dries. Once dry remove the T-pins and your good to go.
Also makes it easy to remove the track later for changes, just work a putty knife between the track and caulking to gently pry the track up.
Once sure about the track locations you can ballast useing white glue to hold it even more. I plan to ballast as the last step of track work. Working out any problums before hand.
Johnnny_reb Once a word is spoken it can not be unspoken!
My Train Page My Photobucket Page My YouTube Channel
I've used Homasote, cork, and WS roadbed at one time or another. I've not had a problem with any of them, but my layouts typically are around for only a few years before I either move or tear them down for one reason or another.
I use caulk to glue the roadbed down (except for Homasote) and then to glue the track to the roadbed. No problems or complaints there either. I've only used track nails with Homasote.
The WS is a little too squishy for my tastes. The Homasote is a little too heavy. And cork is a little too thick although you can sand it down nicely. Nothing is perfect IMO. I've used dense craft foam sheets from Michael's for pavement and I might try that next for roadbed although beveling it might be a pain.
I'd suggest you get a small amount of each material and experiment a bit to see what works best for you.
"Never try to teach a pig to sing. You just get dirty and have an angry pig on your hands."
nucat78 The WS is a little too squishy for my tastes. The Homasote is a little too heavy. And cork is a little too thick although you can sand it down nicely. Nothing is perfect IMO.
The WS is a little too squishy for my tastes. The Homasote is a little too heavy. And cork is a little too thick although you can sand it down nicely. Nothing is perfect IMO.
As the OP, I have read and re-read all of the replies, and I agree with you that nothing is perfect.
On my next layout, my inclination is to use Woodland Scenics Foam Track Bed and secure it with caulk. Before finalizing the position of the track on top of the road bed with caulk, I will probably use push pins to temporarily hold the track in position.
I get scraps of nitrile cork from a supplier/customer of ours sometimes in sheets of 16 x 10 inches sometimes 3 x 30 inches, and i don't pay a thing, its all rubbish to him.
I do not hand lay track, so I am using Chuck Hitchcocks and Bob Kingsworth's track laying methods. Chuck's Article can be found here: http://mrr.trains.com/~/media/import/files/pdf/8/e/4/mr_lc_6-03_flextrack_01.ashx, and
Bob's article in the How to Build Realistic Reliable Track Special Model Railroader Special Issue No. 66, is discussed here: http://mrr.trains.com/Videos/Expert%20Tips/2009/08/How%20to%20Build%20Realistic%20Reliable%20Track.aspx
This is my second layout and I am old, but I am not tied to "old school" track laying methods. On my first layout I used a 1/2 inch plywood and Homasote sub-roadbed with the track glued, and sometimes nailed, directly to the Homasote with white glue. While this did the job, it's sound deadening qualities and the many small dips typically found in the surface of the Homasote (which I should have noticed and corrected with patching compound) plagued the layout.
This time I built my sub-roadbed with plywood and Homasote, and then discovered the arcticles mentioned above. I chose to use the quietest configuration (cork over camper tape, secured with adhesive caulk). I also used patching compound to fill every dip I could find in the roadbed. Based on my experience so far, I think I am really going to like the results. The pros and cons of this track laying method are discussed in detail in Bob's article, so I will not repeat them here.
Starting on my new layout I have discovered a 5mm funny foam at Hobby Lobby. Using my cutting jig previously mentioned I can cut nine feet from a 12" x 18" sheet which costs $1.49. I am using black this time which blends in with my ballast well. The short lengths doesn't bother me since they are covered with ballast anyway and seams do not show. I find it to be less messy than homasote and lest costly and does not deteriorate like cork.
Hello All,
I use Woodland Scenics foam roadbed on a foam base.
To adhere the roadbed to the foam base I use clear silicone caulk.
While the caulk cures I use 2-inch "T" pins to hold it in place.
Once the roadbed is secure I use #19 x 5/8-inch silver brads to hold the track in place to check alignments before ballasting.
After the ballast has dried I remove the brads.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
Necro topic alert - 9 years old.
eaglescout Starting on my new layout I have discovered a 5mm funny foam at Hobby Lobby. Using my cutting jig previously mentioned I can cut nine feet from a 12" x 18" sheet which costs $1.49. I am using black this time which blends in with my ballast well. The short lengths doesn't bother me since they are covered with ballast anyway and seams do not show. I find it to be less messy than homasote and lest costly and does not deteriorate like cork.
Starting on my new layout I have discovered a 5mm funny foam at Hobby Lobby. Using my cutting jig previously mentioned I can cut nine feet from a 12" x 18" sheet which costs $1.49. I am using black this time which blends in with my ballast well. The short lengths doesn't bother me since they are covered with ballast anyway and seams do not show.
I find it to be less messy than homasote and lest costly and does not deteriorate like cork.
What is so fnny about funny foam? Inquiring minds want to know!
My Homasote is not messy at all btw. I've cut it with a utility knife and no issue. This is Homasote sandwiched to OSB and re-used from my last layout - I did give it a fresh rolling of paint. To me, if a method ain't broke, it isn't in need of a "funny" fix.
Once cork is in place and painted, it doesn'st seem to be a problem. It's cheap enough that if you build a new layout, you just by new cork and toss the old cork out. I did save cork from an old layout and it's actually still usable.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
I got some foam stuff on eBay, guy sells it there, for various scales and in various size packs. Each length is 6 foot, so fewer joints over a long run. It's not as squishy as the WS foam, but still softer than cork. It's a different type of foam than what WS uses. They have it in both black and grey. Unfortunately all the same thickness.
I was planning to use homasote roadbed, but then Cascade shut down with little warning, so once again it is no longer available.
I've seen videos on making it yourself - but I don't have a table saw and have no plans to get one, plus some of the operations do not look exactly safe, even when using push sticks. To get uniform thickness, you have to saw it to thickness after cutting the strips to width and/or adding the bevel cuts. Which seems like a lot of waste, in addition to the massive amounts of dust it generates. I'll pass, unless someone takes over Cascade soon.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
rrinker I got some foam stuff on eBay, guy sells it there, for various scales and in various size packs. Each length is 6 foot, so fewer joints over a long run. It's not as squishy as the WS foam, but still softer than cork. It's a different type of foam than what WS uses. They have it in both black and grey. Unfortunately all the same thickness. I was planning to use homasote roadbed, but then Cascade shut down with little warning, so once again it is no longer available. I've seen videos on making it yourself - but I don't have a table saw and have no plans to get one, plus some of the operations do not look exactly safe, even when using push sticks. To get uniform thickness, you have to saw it to thickness after cutting the strips to width and/or adding the bevel cuts. Which seems like a lot of waste, in addition to the massive amounts of dust it generates. I'll pass, unless someone takes over Cascade soon. --Randy
I think I have bought the same stuff you did, since we were talking about that foam product in a previous thread.
I have started working with it and I like the product. It is a bit easier to work with than the Cascade homasote product which is kerfed for curving but also can tear if you're not careful.
I wish that the foam product it did come in different heights and profiles though, and a properly shaped turnout pad would be helpful.
- Douglas
I used cork for so long, slicing out a turnout isn't too big a deal. Though the way illustrated on the sheet he included with the roadbed is a bit different - it also makes a lot of sense since it requires a lot less precision - worst case is you have to dump a little more ballast to fill in the gaps. Otherwise I would do it like I did cork - overlay the pieces and slice through both at the same time, then poke out the little scrap piece from the bottom layer, and you get a nice tight fit.
I may use N scale WS or cork for sidings and yards, along with code 70 track, if Peco ever makes the turnouts. WS foam for the yard would be easy, just get the big sheets they sell.
eaglescoutWhat is so fnny about funny foam? Inquiring minds want to know! Rio Grande: Just suggesting an alternative to the 2 or 3 methods posters often use that works for me.
How does funny foam work. What makes it wonderful? Post a few pictures to make the case. Seriously. What's the old saying, a picture is worth a thousand words.
The downside of homasote and cork I mentioned have been put forth by others on the forum, not just me.
Yes, and it's time the these "downsides" be challenged and put to bed.
If dust is the so-called downside, just don't use a conventional saw to cut it and basically no dust. The dust argument is a "straw-man" easily put down by using the right tools. Would you use a saber saw to cut drywall? If you did, you'd get a dust cloud too. So you use a utility knife. There are special blade you can get for a saber saw to cut Homasote faster if the utility knife is too slow. But a utlity knife works pretty good in my recent experience cutting Homasote for this layout under construction. Queue photo:
As for cork, so far I haven't experienced that down side. I suppose if one wants to re-use cork that's really really old, ok sure. But since cork is pretty inexpensive, if you have old dried out cork, chuck it and use new cork to lay track. I've never heard of it being a problem years later unless maybe you need to take out an area and redo it maybe. I make no apologies for making a rebuttal for the stated "downsides" to Homasote and cork. IMO, they are greatly over stated basically not a real issue to discourage anyone from using those materials.
AikidomasterI have been using cork roadbed for the past 10 years. I tried homasote but it was too dusty when cut and did not do a lot when it came to decreasing the noise of the train on the track.
I cut my homasote with a smooth blade designed for cutting leather. This gives a perfectly smooth cut and... NO DUST!
Homasote does a decent job cutting down on sound... until the ballast is glued in place, then it does nothing.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
I started this thread in 2011 when I was contemplating a new layout which I finally started in 2018. I wound up using cork roadbed and continued to use nails to secure the track. Instead of nailing the track with nails between the rails, I decided to drive the nails through the ties outside of the rails. I like that a lot better because the nails are less obvious.