multipe deck layouts

[Anonymous]

I need some general advice about multiple deck layout construction;

1-optimal lower deck height, upper deck height and minimum seperation distance. Lower level will represent a transition era engine facility, classification and passanger yards with a big city backdrop, flats and a few industries. Upper level will represent rural scenary with rail industries and small towns. A 6 lap helix will represent the trip between city and rural landscapes. The helix is constructed and runs well.

2-upper deck support: I prefer a wall mounted bracket sysytem with upper and lower levels. Lower level support will have a angeled brace uder each joist. As for upper level support, should I use a "L bracket" or small "gusset" under each joist? Traditional "L girder" contruction will be used for a peninsula in the middle of the room.

Thanks Rossmk

[wp8thsub]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Rossmk

1-optimal lower deck height, upper deck height and minimum seperation distance.

Optimum depends on your preferences and height. My last layout had a lower deck at 42" minimum track level and the upper at 58" minimum. It worked well with my operating crew and their mix of heights. I'm 6'3" but had an operator around 5'6" who said he had no trouble running the upper level.

QUOTE: A 6 lap helix will represent the trip between city and rural landscapes.

That's a lot of hidden running. I had a 5 1/2 lap helix connecting my lower level to staging, and it seemed like trains were in there for an eternity. Fortunately the staging was "active" (a fiddle yard with operators on duty actively re-staging trains) so road crews didn't have to contend with that part of the run.

The mainline connection between decks was almost 3 turns, and that wasn't as optimal as I had hoped. Even I exhibited behavior which I termed "leading off base," wandering the aisle waiting for the train to emerge. At my wife's suggestion, I installed a mirror on the ceiling to allow crews in the aisle to look over the backdrop into the helix to ensure their trains were still moving.

If you need a helix, then you need it. Be prepared for it to be an operational inconvenience however. If you plan multiple train op sessions, try to place passing sidings as close as possible to the top and bottom of the helix to avoid turing the long hidden run into a bottleneck.

QUOTE: 2-upper deck support: I prefer a wall mounted bracket sysytem with upper and lower levels. Lower level support will have a angeled brace uder each joist. As for upper level support, should I use a "L bracket" or small "gusset" under each joist?

Benchwork for the upper deck requires less support than you might think. Areas of 1"X3" open grid "studwall" benchwork up to about 14" wide can hold up quite well with only the screws holding them into the wall studs.

Supports that intrude into the lower deck can become a scenic distraction. Consider making the lower deck somewhat narrower, allowing space at the back for a false wall backdrop to cover any protuding supports. If the rural nature of your upper level scenery permits, try running brackets UP where they can be hidden by the scenery. They don't have to project far to provide a lot of strength. I ran short pieces of 1"X3" up at a 45 degree angle from the benchwork grid in a few spots, and connected them with horizontal 1"X3" members running flat against the wall which could be used to hold screws into the wall studs.

[orsonroy]

QUOTE:
1-optimal lower deck height, upper deck height and minimum seperation distance. Lower level will represent a transition era engine facility, classification and passanger yards with a big city backdrop, flats and a few industries. Upper level will represent rural scenary with rail industries and small towns. A 6 lap helix will represent the trip between city and rural landscapes. The helix is constructed and runs well.

My lowest level is at 36", and is designed to be operated from a rolling office chair. My second level is at (mostly) 46", and my upper level is at (mostly) 56". My layout is a corkscrew design (who came up with "nolix"?), so the level heights are an average. The only way you'll be able to find out what your "perfect" layout height will be is to make a mockup and see what you like. My upper level is high at 56", but I'm 6'2" and wanted an eye-level view.

QUOTE:
2-upper deck support: I prefer a wall mounted bracket sysytem with upper and lower levels. Lower level support will have a angeled brace uder each joist. As for upper level support, should I use a "L bracket" or small "gusset" under each joist? Traditional "L girder" contruction will be used for a peninsula in the middle of the room.

My second and upper levels are supported by U channel metal shelf brackets screwed directly to the studwalls. The good things about this construction method include ease of construction, affordability (10"x12" brackets go for less than a dollar apiece) and strength. The biggest negative is that the brackets are on TOP of the backdrop, meaning they're noticeable. I've minimized their impact by painting the backdrop over them, and will further disguise them as I can by hiding them behind buildings and trees, but most will still be visible. I don't mind them, but the technique isn't for everyone.

I don't trust wood brackets strengthened by metal cleats, angles or gussetts. The weak point is the wood used for the horizontal bracket, which will fail if subjected to too much weight. When I picked a metal bracket to use, a friend an I actually load tested every one we could find by standing on them. The styles that didn't fail (and didn't have diagonal support members) were the U channel brackets. All flat L brackets and all insertable "tab in slot" brackets failed with as little as 150 pounds added. (that day at the checkout line was interesting!)

Bill Darnaby has built his two level Maumee Route layout using 2x3s mounted horizontally from an exposed studwall. The brackets are supported by L shaped metal stiffner plates. This method does work well, but requires a bare studwall to be built. The brackets aren't visible once the 1/8" masonite backdrop is added. Both Bill's layout and my own feature 2" foam insulation as the base layout layer.

[James35]

My layout is still under construction but here's my comments.

My lower level is strictly a hidden staging yard and car storage. The upper level has the scenery, starting at a sea port and going up over the mountains to another city. The lower level is under that city.

First, the minimun distance betwen levels should be 18 inches.

Second, try not to build the lower level too low. My "seaport" is at 36 " and I sort of wish I had built it higher.

Third, consider setting the upper level at "eye-level. the level of yor eyes. It really makes a difference in viewing your trains and improves the realism. However, you will have to consider being able to reach onto the layout to throw switches in yards and uncouple, if you have a major yard there.

My feeling is determine the best height for the upper level and calculate downward from that height.

The best advice was in another reply.---- make a markup even if it is only eight foot sections of plywood and see haow it "feels."..

Jim

[nslakediv]

its your layout, dont worry about your operators, they will have fun reguardless, your the one who has to spend countless hours bent over if its to high or to low to lay track and do scenery. i suggest top deck just under chin height and bottom deck waist height, food for thought.