sections of so many layouts are built on flat surfaces and don't look realistic. an HO scale inch corresponds to little more than 7'. even relatively flat ground changes grade by more than 7' in a relatively short distance.
but while i'm sure this is pretty obvious to most of you, it's not obvious (to me) how to realistically model these undulations in the landscape. Stacking 1" or even 1/2" foam addresses the more easily definable changes in grade, but how would you smoothly model several small changes in grade (1/4") over a foot or so. If you were modeling a crop field, how could you model the undulations in the field?
On "This Old House" years ago i saw them putting a flat roof on a house in southwest somewhere, maybe arizona. They were spraying expanding foam in thin layers, waiting for it to expand a little, and they adding more, so that there would be a mild grade that made the water flow into a drain. (i forget what the top coat was to protect the foam from the sun was). Is there anything like this spray foam available to modelers?
Are there other techniques for unflattening the landscape?
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
You're just better off to carve/ shape the foam and add layers to alter the terrain. The base foam need not be too perfect. There are various methods to finish the grade by using plaster cloth, netting, screen or finish off with plaster, Sculpamold or a version of a homemade "ground-goop".
Depressions, and any other lower elevations can be cut into the foam. Deeper areas can even be cut out of the plywood base. This would be for creek, rivers, valleys or any other below grade items. By blocking the areas and placing a new base plywood gives you the ability to now build the area back up to the remaining scenery contours.
I will generally try to keep these areas between the joists, or if you plan on a cut or a specific bridge arrange the joists accordingly. Joists can always be altered iif needed.
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
gregc (snip) an HO scale inch corresponds to little more than 7'. even relatively flat ground changes grade by more than 7' in a relatively short distance. (snip) how would you smoothly model several small changes in grade (1/4") over a foot or so. If you were modeling a crop field, how could you model the undulations in the field? (Snip)
One thing to keep in mind is that our layouts represent a very small portion of the world. A full-scale copy of my 4' X 16' layout would fit in the parking lot at the local university football stadium - 16 feet is about an HO scale 1/4 mile. You are right that the ground does have its waves and undulations, but 1/4" in a foot is a 2% grade (pretty dramatic). I'd be concerned that such lumps and bumps would start looking toy-like.
I live in a mountain valley in the Rockies (pretty dramatic scenery), but the areas where the railroad tracks are laid are really pretty flat. When I sight down the rails, I see vertical undulations of a foot or so in a mile. Agricultural fields also are not truly flat, but they appear to only vary about 5 feet or so in a 1/4 mile (my estimation). If they varied too much, water wouldn't stay evenly distributed and some farm equipment would have problems.
Based on this, my first suggestion is to not be too dramatic with this stuff. Maybe look at topographical maps for the area your layout represents and see how much the terrain really varies.
In terms of modeling it, I think I'd be tempted to make a long, very slightly convex sanding block and sand away foam to make some depressions, keeping in mind that the contour of the areas near railroads is often pretty flat. I would think that 60 grit paper will cut foam plenty fast enough to make 1/16 -1/8" depressions over a couple of feet or more, and not take too much elbow grease (a power oscillating sander might work well, too).
Good luck.
Phil, I'm not a rocket scientist; they are my students.
My terrain all goes up from the base rather than down. I put the track on 2 inch risers and then make the terrain with plastic grocery bags stuffed with newspapers and covered with plaster cloth. Where I need flat surface to put roads or buildings I use foam sheets at what ever height I need.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
Hi Greg: I agree with Phil on being careful on the size of rough areas, depending, of course on what you're modeling. I use a Structolite/Sculptamold mix for all my scenery. It can be applied to any base, ie, foam,plywood, or plaster cloth. It can be smoothed or rough, depending on the terrain you're modeling. If I were modeling, say, a plowed field, I would spread the mix, and using a small artists trowel, put relatively straight, shallow lines in the wet mix. Here's an example of some rough, graded terrain at my Blackwood Mine. Hope this helps. DJ.
It would be easier to do with more room than 1/4". If you have your tracks and buildings etc. raised even 1" (like on Woodland Scenic risers) you could crumple up newspapers and put them in place so they were around track level. Then apply plastercloth over it. That would give you the undulations you're looking for.
Raised on the Erie Lackawanna Mainline- Supt. of the Black River Transfer & Terminal R.R.
Jim, you could use gobs of drywall mud with plastic window screening from the local hardware store, or you could use Joe F's fine vermiculite/plaster mix. For banks and larger undulations you could go with cardboard strip basketweave base. If you'll pardon the expression, "there's more than one way to skin a cat!" One suggestion, find a way you like and try some scenery in a place that can be covered over if you don't like it. As always, enjoy the learning curve! John
Here is what I plan on doing...........
My pike in progress models the North Adams Branch of the B&A. I've picked a few LDE's (Layout Design Elements) and am selectively compressing them as necessary. I have a topographical map of the route.
What I've done is taken my track plan (basically a twice around the room loop) "straightened it" and am plotting the terrain to my layout, including specific features. This fall I've got a mini-vacation already scheduled with the Wife and we'll be smack-dab in the middle of the line. I plan to take tons of pictures.
Makes scenery planning a cinch.
I like the crumpled newspaper, plastercloth and Sculptamold method. The photos below probably show greater elevation change than you're thinking of but with the newspaper you can flatten it out as needed.
Jerry
Rio Grande vs. Santa Fe.....the battle is over but the glory remains!
The reason I put the newspaper in the plastic grocery bags is to protect them from the water in the plaster cloth.
I had built a 5ft.x6ft. peninsula, with 5/8in. plywood topping. I had built a HO scale swing bridge,a 3-track mine,and a gorgeous three story Bavarian Inn and had nowhere to place them on my layout. Sooo, I cut out a harbor,half way across the peninsula, with the swing bridge at the entrance. There was no reason for the swing bridge, if the trains could go across the flat area at the end of the harbor. Sooo, I built a mountain with a road circling it to a ski&skate resort at the top, with a Bavarian Inn. The mountain had to be built with a hollow accessible interior, to hide 5 mine and harbor tracks, that emerged and made use of the swing bridge. I chose to make the mountain out of reinforced plywood arcs, covered with heavy screen wire, plaster cloth and finally tinted Hydrocal plaster. The interior is accessible via three removable ports. The mountain also serves the purpose of hiding the steel mill complex beyond, so that one entering my around the room unobstructed 24'x24' garage loft layout (by the inside stairs, at one end), would have to walk down the aisles in order to see all of the layout. Bob Hahn
Click on the photo to enlarge it. Then,click on the sequence of 63 small photos,(at the left), to see parts of my layout.
To show the undulations of a plowed field, I used a steel straight edge, and a triangular file on 1/4in. foam board. The trees are made of skewers with circles of furnace filters, sprayed with adhesive spray and rolled in a bag of WS foam, of various colors.
If you check out Lance Mindheim's "East Rail spur of his Voodoo & Palmettos layout, he used a small circular sander to add undulations into the flat foamboard surface. I tried this and it worked quite well. Use the sander to and attack the foamboard from several different directions. This works well for adding low areas to a flat surface. After using the sander the low areas can be given a light coat of joint compound applied with a 2" paint brush.
camaroIf you check out Lance Mindheim's "East Rail spur of his Voodoo & Palmettos layout, he used a small circular sander to add undulations into the flat foamboard surface. I tried this and it worked quite well. Use the sander to and attack the foamboard from several different directions. This works well for adding low areas to a flat surface. After using the sander the low areas can be given a light coat of joint compound applied with a 2" paint brush.
I've had good results just hand sanding the flat foam board. Didn't even bother adding a layer of "goop". Might be worth the time to experiment a bit on a scrap piece of foam.
Higher areas are built up foamboard that gets cut down with a Surform or similar. One thing - don't make slopes too steep unless they're rock cuts or canals or such. Erosion tends to smooth out sharp elevation changes.
I'm also in favor of keeping track as level as possible and using the scenery to trick the viewer into thinking the track is undulating. Much more reliable running in my experience. Your mileage may vary...
gregcbut how would you smoothly model several small changes in grade (1/4") over a foot or so. If you were modeling a crop field, how could you model the undulations in the field?
Around here nothing - not even the 1000 acre corn fields - is perfectly flat.
To answer your question, any kind of cutting tool including power sander and vacuum cleaner to lower terrain and structolite to raise it. Hills from stacked foam or cardboard strip covered with structolite.
Ground cover makes a world of difference to the look too.
Late construction photo (the house has windows now )
The ground rises about 1" center right to left. The small hill is about 2" high, the Shawangunk millstone quarry 12-14".
Here's an earlier shot
The field is structolite troweled on and then gently surfaced with a notched glue trowel. Small notches worked best. The furrows will be similar but not identical, which is what we want. Don't forget to NOT run them up to a fence.
I don't have a better shot of the field on my web site yet, but this shows the general idea. I later added photo interiors and windows to the house except for the picture window. Instead there are two workmen with a stepladder and sawhorses installing them. Also Forsythia bushes. It all guides the eye around and adds believability.
Karl
PS: My city section is almost flat (but not quite) as will be the yard and somewhat less so the industrial area.
The mind is like a parachute. It works better when it's open. www.stremy.net
Phoebe Vet The reason I put the newspaper in the plastic grocery bags is to protect them from the water in the plaster cloth.
using bags also helps to keep the millions of newspaper wads from going all over the basement
Try fibredecor. this is a new technique..Its fast, realistic and alot less messy then most ways.
See this thread
Bill D
model in O. the Western NY and Ontario Railroad
has anyone tried using either the expanding or less expanding insulating foam? It could be laid down and covered with a single sheet of newspaper, or maybe even saran wrap to mold it into shape. I wonder if saran wrap could be peeled off afterward to allow the removal of foam after it has hardened.
at least where i live in central new jersey, it's hard for me to find terrain that changes less than +/- 2' over relatively short distances except around school fields. (even the nearby airport runway isn't flat). of course it's easy to build things up, above track level, but isn't it just as likely that the track level is above ground level 4 or more feet?
my ride to work takes be across 3 rail lines (merging in south boundbrook). one is at road level. the other two are above the road. one of them is generally above grade level in the surrounding area. the grade of the 3rd takes it below ground level less than a mile away after crossing over a road
from what i see where i live, more terrain is below track grade than above it, and there are embankments along side both rail and road ways.
Thats why I run open grid bench work with spline subroadbed, when it comes to terrain for scenery I can basicly get any surface I want. I use both red rosin paper and white glue and plaster cloth and sculptamold for terrain. I want dead flat landscape like a freight yard I use 1/2" plywood topped with homasote attached to my scenery risers, not track risers they stay seperate. I have been experimenting with pink foam a little here and there and I must say it definetly has it's merits. go to the home center and get your self a pice and a sure form file aka a wood rasp and just ply with it out in the driveway it makes one heck of a mess. I keep the shop vac running right next to where I am working to try and control the pink dust storm. You can creat gully, ruts, small hils, large hills depressions etc. basically anything you want it just takes a few tools you probaly already have and practice and imagination. If I am not mistaken there was such an article in MR a few months back where the auhtor used pink foam to make a small hilside in the corner of his layout and he alos included rock molds which he made from tinfoil to get the effects he wanted. Rock molds are also a nice effect to get what your looking for.