Can someone explain to me what a catch turnout is, and how to use them. The particular brand i saw was Peco and it looked confusing to me.
Catch points are designed to derail a loose car or string of cars rolling "the wrong way" down a slope.
Similar devices are called "derails" in the US and are designed to derail an unattended car rather than let it roll out onto the main from a siding. The crew must align the derail to allow a siding to be switched, then return it to the "safety" position when done.
I don't think there is a lot of call for them for most layouts unless you want to try to capture the flavor of real-life trackage that uses these. Basically, they are a device for derailing trains, sort of the opposite of what we are usually trying to accomplish!
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Yes, I suspect "catch" is the British term (PECO being a U.K. company) for a derail. In this type of derail, it works like a turnout except it controls a derail. Set one way, trains to thru. Set the other way, trains derail. You might see one on a track leading to a crossing with another railroad, so that if a train ran a red signal at the interlocking it would derail before getting to the crossing (and perhaps running into another train already on the track).
http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/v/vspfiles/photos/PEC-SL85-2.jpg
looks like some of my early handlaid stuff when i was drinking.
actually, various types of derails are used in conjunction with blue flags on interchange tracks where the car dept. might be working on or inspecting the cars and on tofc tracks during loading and unloading. the whole idea is to keep an engine from tying onto the cut while someone might be in harm's way.
grizlump
cuyama I don't think there is a lot of call for them for most layouts unless you want to try to capture the flavor of real-life trackage that uses these. Basically, they are a device for derailing trains, sort of the opposite of what we are usually trying to accomplish!
Derails are track details almost always (99.99%) omitted by modelers; an omission I always note, and much more noticeable than an absence of spike and tie plate detail on handlaid track. Thank goodness there is at least one regular poster here that models derails! I call for all derails to rise up and be recognized ... er modeled!
Mark
grizlump9 looks like some of my early handlaid stuff when i was drinking. actually, various types of derails are used in conjunction with blue flags on interchange tracks where the car dept. might be working on or inspecting the cars and on tofc tracks during loading and unloading. the whole idea is to keep an engine from tying onto the cut while someone might be in harm's way. grizlump
Someone absconded with my first scratchbuilt N-Scale switch of 25 or so years ago!
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I've built derails at my Diamnond Valley, both types: And you can see how they work.
Wolfgang
Pueblo & Salt Lake RR
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I know of several model railroads with working derails, both the point type as modeled by Peco (more properly called a "catch point" in British parlance rather than a "catch turnout") and the block type. We'll have an article on modeling the latter in our new MR special issue, Realistic Reliable Track, which will be publshed this month. (You can order it now on this Web site, or by calling 800-533-6644.)
I put one of the Peco point derails on a spur on our old MR&T club layout, on a track that served a propane dealer and connected directly to the main line. It was quite realistically functional. and would definitely derail cars if left in its open position, to the considerable annoyance of some operators!
So long,
Andy
Andy Sperandeo MODEL RAILROADER Magazine
... a big thank you to the OP for bringing up this subject.
I am modelling modern era railroading - should I also plan for derailers, if so, where would they be located?
Andy's example of a propane dealer is a good example...you wouldn't want a car of propane sitting on a spur track at Hank Hill's employer to get loose in the dark and roll out onto the mainline to be hit by a speeding train !!
Derails are often used on spur tracks or other lines where there's a chance a car could run away and get out onto the mainline causing a hazard. As I noted, they can be used at an interlocking where two rail lines cross, so that a train running a red signal would derail before getting to the crossing of the other line.
BTW, I think all of my layouts have included at least several "derails"...unfortunately, none of them were intentional.
Stix,
thanks for the info.
This is one of the items, where German railroading differs quite lot from US practice. In Germany, such a spur would have a switch leading to a "safety" spur, so the car couldd not run onto the main in any case. The car itself would be secured by a "shoe" sliding on the rail and braking the car down should it begin to move accidentally.
Are all spurs secured by derailers?
simply put, anywhere it would be preferable to be on the ground than to be any further down that track.
Sir MadogAre all spurs secured by derailers?
No, derail use in the U.S. varies widely depending on conditions, potential risk to life or property (like the propane plant), railroad, grade, traffic level, etc. And these things have changed over the years, so from a modeling standpoint the choices/prototype variations of application are endless.
I'm sure the regulators have some rules, not being a modeler of present day railroading, I don't keep up on such things. But, then on top of any "government" regulation, each railroad will have its own "rules" about such things.
Sheldon
While I don't have definitive information, my sense is that while split-rail derails were common into the mid-twentieth century, block-type derails (Edit - introduced in 1897) are the standard on contemporary railroads. Can anyone confirm this or present a different conclusion?
Here are examples of contemporary derail devices.
Portable derail:
Permanent hinge derail:
Permanent sliding derail:
Sperandeo We'll have an article on modeling the latter in our new MR special issue, Realistic Reliable Track, which will be publshed this month. (You can order it now on this Web site, or by calling 800-533-6644.)
We'll have an article on modeling the latter in our new MR special issue, Realistic Reliable Track, which will be publshed this month. (You can order it now on this Web site, or by calling 800-533-6644.)
How will the special issue differ from Kalmbach's 2000 book Trackwork and Lineside Detail for Your Model Railroad?
That book includes a 2-plus page article on derails written by Gordon Odegard.
Sir Madog Are all spurs secured by derailers?
No, generally it would only be where there was a reasonable chance of a car rolling away - like the spur track being on a slight grade - and the spur being connected directly to a mainline where a car could cause a major accident. It's kind of a "fail safe" so if all else fails, the car won't make it to the mainline and become a hazard.
Also, the "Catch" shown in my earlier post is a British contraption. US derails are usually just kind of a "shoe" that fits over one rail to derail the car. It's either removed or the derailing part is moved out of the way (i.e. it's on a hinge and can fold back away from the track) when the track is being used by a train crew.
The derail at an interlocking would be more like the "catch" but would be controlled from the signal tower and interlocked with the signals so only the track showing a stop indication would be set for the derail. (My sense is that this type of derail is not very common now, but was more often seen in steam days, when radio wasn't used and signals could more easily be missed.)
i have spent a great deal of time reading the ICC railroad accident reports on the DOT web site and it seems that derails at interlockings and especially railroad crossings became less common in later years with the advent of cab signals and ATS.
of course, if the engine crew had their heads where the sun don't shine and missed both the distant approach and home signals (or forestalled the ATS in error) the derail did not help much. put a train on the ground at 50 or 60 mph and it will still go far enough to collide with another train in the plant or on the crossing at the time.
if you get hit broadside by an engine, does it matter whether it was on it's side or on it's wheels when it hits you?
and by the way, it seems that the surviving crew members, if any, always blamed the dead guy. you know, "the smoke was blinding me but the fireman said the signals were green" "where is the fireman?" "well, most of him is still under the engine."
So if a propane dealer was served by a double-ended siding, would you have derails on each end? And if the propane dealer shared the double-ended siding with another industry (as on my layout, due to space constraints), would there be a derail at the end of the propane dealer's part of the trackage?
Hello Mark,
The Trackwork and Lineside Detail book was made up of material reprinted from previous issues of Model Railroader. Not that there isn't a lot of good stuff in it, but it had all been published before. Our new MR special issue, Realistic Reliable Track, includes 15 all-new articles appearing for the first time.
In the old book, Gordon Odegard's "Closeup" article on derails from MR was a survey of prototype examples with ideas on modeling. The article on modeling a hinged derail in the new Realistic Reliable Track is a how-to-do-it article by Matt Snell.
As the editor of the special issue I'm obviously very close to it, but I honestly think it has a lot of useful and informative material on subjects that will interest almost all model railroaders. After all, we've all got track!
Thanks for asking about it,
odave So if a propane dealer was served by a double-ended siding, would you have derails on each end? And if the propane dealer shared the double-ended siding with another industry (as on my layout, due to space constraints), would there be a derail at the end of the propane dealer's part of the trackage?
It's important to understand that derails are / were fairly rare. Maybe 1 in 100 spur tracks or sidings need a derail, most don't. It would only be used in those situations where having a small calamity (like a freight car being derailed) would be greatly preferable to a great calamity (like a freight car getting away and causing a massive wreck on the mainline, perhaps costing lives). Most spur tracks and sidings are built flat, and normal railroad car brakes are sufficient to "tie the car down".
Don't know how it all turned out (I could only find cached articles about it on the web) but in last year's (Mar 2008) collison between a Centerbeam lumber car and a MBTA commuter train in Canton, the claim was made that the lumber car handbrake was not properly set, and more relevant to this thread,
The MBTA is also accusing CSX employees of failing to properly secure a steel gate that seals off the lumber yard from the commuter train tracks and not properly setting the derail device, which could have derailed the freight train so that it wouldn’t have run into the main rail line.
wjstix odave So if a propane dealer was served by a double-ended siding, would you have derails on each end? And if the propane dealer shared the double-ended siding with another industry (as on my layout, due to space constraints), would there be a derail at the end of the propane dealer's part of the trackage? It's important to understand that derails are / were fairly rare.
It's important to understand that derails are / were fairly rare.
In my possession are official SP track diagrams, undated but apparently from the steam-locomotive era, of six small stations on the Shasta Division. They show locations of fixed derails. Here is what they show.
Sisson. There is one derail. It is located at one end of the passing siding protecting the main track. There are numerous spur tracks coming off the siding, so the one derail protects the main track from all tracks. The other end of the siding didn't need a derail because of the grade?
Deetz. Same as Sisson.
Edgewood. Same as Sisson except there is a double-ended house track on the other side of the main which has no derail protection.
Montague. No derails are shown.
Hornbrook. There are two derails. One protects the main track at one end of the passing siding which has various spurs connected to it. A second derail at the end of the house track (same end is on the passing track) on the opposite side of the maintrack.
Hilt. There are two derails protecting the main at both ends of the house track which has several spurs coming off it. The passing siding, which has no spurs coming off it, on the opposite side of the main has no derails. (I can see that parking cars on a passing siding must be very short term or it isn't handy for passing trains.)
The lesson learned here is that the fewest number of fixed derails were used to protect the main track from cars left standing with the potential to move.
I think I can get away with two fixed derails on my planned late-steam-era layout having two towns with several spur tracks each: (1) at the downgrade end of the mainline passing siding with several spurs attached to it, and (2) at the entrance of the branchline terminus.
chutton01 Don't know how it all turned out (I could only find cached articles about it on the web) but in last year's (Mar 2008) collison between a Centerbeam lumber car and a MBTA commuter train in Canton, the claim was made that the lumber car handbrake was not properly set, and more relevant to this thread, The MBTA is also accusing CSX employees of failing to properly secure a steel gate that seals off the lumber yard from the commuter train tracks and not properly setting the derail device, which could have derailed the freight train so that it wouldn’t have run into the main rail line.. Well, not the most precise railroad terminology, but the MBTA claims that the derail was not set (ok), and that it would have derailed the 'run-away' centerbeam if it was (which is true, if the derail was in place the car would have derailed before entering the mainline).
But in the CSX runaway in 2001 here in Ohio, weren't derails placed ahead of the train, and didn't the train simply bounce over them?
Kevin
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As it happens, the new September 2009 MR that just arrived yesterday features an article on derails !!