I have only a small area. I have room for a 5x9 or 5x10. Have you seen this done? Is it workable?
-Ron
90% of all home layouts fall into that size range... I might be able to help if you give me some idea about what you want out of your railroad. You need a list of must haves, wants, and druthers as well as some purpose for your railroad...
Just as important, can you draw a diagram of the room the layout will be in? Sometimes, it's possible to get more layout in a room if you DON'T use a single table.
A quick sketch showing the walls, doors and windows and anything else you want to keep in the room (chairs, TV's, etc.).
The process really starts with YOU deciding WHY you want a model railroad and what you expect to get from the layout.
Darrell, quiet...for now
I agree w/ Darrel, you may be able to configure a much larger trackplan. A shelf or around the room plan will provide so much more enjoyment. The 5ft table width is quite a reach unlees you can access from both sides.
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
my thoughts exactly, you get the feeling that your trains are going somewhere in place of causing eye sprain with the roundy round...
Yes it is workable.
I started with a 4x8, went to a 6x6.5 and some other small sizes over the years, before my last layout at 11x18 and my current one at 14x23.
Small layouts are a lot of fun as you can get the trains up and running quickly add scenery, etc.
If you provide us with some more info, such as scale, is the space dedicated or shared, etc. we can provide some better feedback.
Enjoy
Paul
My layout room is 17 x 23 and it STILL isn;t big enough.
Dave
Just be glad you don't have to press "2" for English.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ_ALEdDUB8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hqFS1GZL4s
http://s73.photobucket.com/user/steemtrayn/media/MovingcoalontheDCM.mp4.html?sort=3&o=27
I have a space of 12x12. There is shelving on one side, a wall on one, the garage door on the other, and open space on the other. Not a room, an area. Its in the garage.
HO scale. Mid 50's to Mid 60's. Mid States/Central US. I like FALL theme.
I like cement. Want Cement Plant, Gravel Company with pit, and small Ready Mix Plant on the layout.
I have short rolling stock, 40' and 34'. I have Alco RS3 and RS2's.
I like the idea of a yard, a small town, a big city, and some industry with the cement as the main theme.
The pennisula could have a town with a ridge through the middle with a street going up grade with house and trees along it. A tunnel can go through the ridge and a creek or river with a bridge on either side.
I was thinking 12x2 by 12x1 by 12x2 by 12x2 with 7x4 middle pennisula. Instead of shelving it would be free standing sectional tables joined together.
Sketch attached.
I'm confused.
Your original post mentioned having an area only large enough for a 5x9 or 5x10, yet the sketch you posted fills a 12x12 garage. Were you originally planning a 5x9 layout in the middle of the garage area? Did you change your mind after starting your post and convert to an around-the-walls layout? Just curious as to how you got to your sketch from the original question.
As to the sketch, it looks nice. There are several areas that could be of concern, particularly where turnouts and curves seem to be exceedingly sharp. Do you have a purpose in mind for your layout? What is it that your want your railroad to do? Will you be making up a CAD drawing of the layout plan for posting here?
There's a lot of helpful advice available on this forum from some very experienced and knowledgable modelers. Looking forward to seeing more of your progress.
Yes. I was just considering a 5x9 or 10 in the 12x12 area. I only have one wall so my benchwork will need to be freestanding not shelf on wall.
My drawing was so rough. Curves can be 18" min and some can be 22' and 24"r.
The CAD and drawing programs are difficult for me. Still learning.
I changed it up based on comments on the forum. I thought I might start with a table then expand.
I am interested mostly in cement hauling because I like the small 2 bay cement hoppers. I want some yard so i could have a scale track, engine house, RIP track, Cleanout track, tower, yard office. And some other industry, maybe a lumber yard and coal yard.
Maybe this layout plan may work as well. Start with 4x8 then expand it.
If you are still considering the original sized layout check out the Dream Plan build video series form MR. I can't remember the guys name but he built a 5'x8' switching layout night scene on a water front. It was unbelievablely detailed and a master piece. If you are going to use the 12'x12' area thats great but do your research first on what type, era, and kind of railroad you wish to build then work on a track plan before you put the first nail in your bench work.
Allegheny2-6-6-6research first on what type, era, and kind of railroad you wish to build then work on a track plan before you put the first nail in your bench work.
Ron, he his damm right.
Do you really want a "long mainline"? This has to do with the kind and type of railroad you want. All the other remarks are also related to that subject.
You could also chose to fill the peninsula with an other cement related industry or an small industrial zone. I liked Andy Sperandeo's San Jacinto and SF very much. Less can be beautifull; you can find the trackplan on Byron Hendersons webside. And there is much more on it. Very much worth a visit.
You'r on the right track; you'r even thinking about narrower shelfs, gives you more then 24" to move. You don't have to build the moster at once; start with some staging (or a loop), one station and a cement plant. And please don't build the last version with the 4x8; your initial design was much better. The loop and radii will and can be so much larger.
Be carefull with adding an engineterminal and all the associated goodies. These are typical for a division pointyard; On Tony Koester's NKP you can get an impression what this means in terms of space. You don't have to go that big; finding the balance between your "dreams" and what fits best is the real art of design. A large part of the yard can be in staging, just keep the things you like most on the visible part.
From Holland with love, have lots of fun designing, building and running
Here is an updated drawing of my garage and layout area. I attempted to use the demo for CAD Rail, seemed to work best for me. I've tried 3d Planit, Any Rail, and Atlas' track plan program, even tried to draw by hand - not good.
I am finding CAD Rail works. What are your opinions on planning programs?
CONSIDERATIONS:
In the area i can use, i can make use of about 12 x12 but i can consider only 10x10 depending. My original thought was the make a u-shaped table at size 9x9. I wanted to get as much in as possible so i changed to 12x12 donut style. The peninsula will not work because i have a dresser unit for parts and tool storage that i want to build the table over and a work table that needs to hide under the layout. I also want a small paint booth with small compresser which needs to hide beneth on a shelf.
I thought my table tops could be 2 feet wide (2) and 2.5 feet wide (2). Height of the table 40" or 42" for duck under. Is this too low? I might consider a lift out segment to enter the middle of the layout. If i wanted more industry i could build a couple of small Bumps on the inside of the layout area.
Anyway, i need to get a good track planning software to design something so you could help. In the meantime feed back on some programs and see what my latest attempt is. Attachment.
ORIGINAL desgin idea (9x9).
Here are some photos to help put into perspective my drawing. I need to incorporate the dresser (storage). I need to keep it 14" away from the garage door so I can use the electrical outlet and not obstruct the operation of the door. I also want to tuck my work table underneath the layout when not in use. Also, I will build into the benchwork a shelf to store the paint booth.
1. What do you recommend for track planning programs?
2. What is an optimum height of benchwork?
More to come as I learn the drawing programs.
HO scale. I like the cement hoppers and open hoppers, both 2 bay. I like the short rolling stock and small locos. I have an Alco RS3. Cement and gravel primarily. I live near a delta, straits, and a bay. I like the harbor and pier operations.
any optimum height for a table?
I suggest you take a look at the HOG (Heart of Georgia) beginners layout. There's even a Yahoo discussion group for it. It's easily adaptable to your space and will give you another perspective on design. Shelf brackets can be used where you need access under the layout and legged benchwork can be used where it needs it be freestanding.
As an aside, I drove by a precast concrete company yesterday - I was thinking that would make a good customer for cement hopper delivery.
... just in case you were unable to find the track plan.
Thanks to you, Scott Perry!
A very successful design, easy to build with a lot of potential!
My last layout was 58" high at the top with a duckunder into the room. The duckunder part was 2 pieces of 3/4" plywood laminated together and provided 56.5" underneath clearance. The duckunder was easy to get under. I was also able to have a work table under the layout. The view of the nearest trains was great. But there are downsides. I had to use a step stool to work on the layout. I couldn't see the second train behind the first.
My current layout is 50" high with no duckunder. I have a roll top desk under the layout that I use for working on models. This works great. I am able to work on the layout without a step stool and the view of the trains is still pretty good. I don't have a duckunder, but sitting in a wheeled desk chair I can roll under the layout with only a slight ducking of my head.
I will probably go with 50" for future layouts.
Table top width of 2.5 feet makes it easy to have bureaus, desks, etc under the layout with out sticking out. I would try to limit the duck under to a 1 foot or less.
Looks good. Thanks for the picture. The web link wasn't working for me this morning. I'm excited. I just painted out the garage and reorganized it to make as much room as possible and share it with the dogs and storage needs. we've never parked a car in there in 13 years. Next i will add some extra lighting, switches and outlets. I can paint one wall blue (may not be worth it). I was thinking of one blue wall and some blue panels in front of the storage shelving. I know this will need to be done before i saw and hammer. Also thinking of a fan and a large room air purifier. I was thinking the purifier would help keep the dust down. Tough to do in a garage.
Man thing for me right now is deciding on how much and style of benchwork, then a track plan.
Learning CAD Rail so the track plan cometh.
rcato Man thing for me right now is deciding on how much and style of benchwork, then a track plan.
Building the table first is generally not a great idea for a model railroad layout. I would recommend first deciding on why you want a layout (what your overall design goal is), then figure out what you want to model (era, location, theme), and only then start to work on a track plan and how to fit your design into the available space.
rcato Learning CAD Rail so the track plan cometh.
Learning CAD is usually far less urgent than to figuring out what your design goal(s) are.CAD just help you draw things accurately. It will not help you create a good design - that takes a human being who has taken the time to figure out his design goals, and learned a bit about layout design.
Byron Henderson has repeated these two pieces of advice (and many other pieces of advice) so many times that in the end, he just put it on his blog (with more background and explanations), making it easier to refer people to it, instead of retyping the same advice in detail over and over again.
Here: http://mrsvc.blogspot.com/2006/10/tricky-traps-1-4.html
Grin, Stein
rcatoHO scale. I like the cement hoppers and open hoppers, both 2 bay. I like the short rolling stock and small locos. I have an Alco RS3. Cement and gravel primarily. I live near a delta, straits, and a bay. I like the harbor and pier operations.
For possible inspiration while doing concept planning (thinking about what style and type of railroading you want to model on your layout) for your railroad:
8x12 foot U-shaped N scale (I know you are in H0 scale) shortline running a local between a small interchange yard and various industries, including a cement plant: http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/1063 - very simple cement plant trackage (just an unloading shed over the single track).
Here is a web page with some pictures of a modern cement plant tucked into a corner on a H0 scale shelf layout : http://www.zealot.com/forum/showthread.php?t=158180&highlight=Cement&page=12 - three tracks for the plant.
The Windsor Model Railroad Club has a largish layout (http://www.scratchbuildersguild.com/follow-the-build/layout-builds/70-wmrc-ho-permanent-layout?showall=1) which includes a pretty large (16 foot long) cement plant (http://www.scratchbuildersguild.com/images/clubs/windsor/wmrc_pt1013.jpeg) - shows some buildings and tracks for a larger cement plant model.
Here is small (6 foot by 2 foot) British switching layout called Cement Quay, which essentially is an in-plant switching layout - look at the pictures below and note the hidden 42" fiddle tracks on left (which could be replaced by a larger staging shelf for a permanent layout) -overview pics and track plan from micro layout site carendt.com: http://www.carendt.com/scrapbook/page55a/index.html. More pictures from layout: http://www.nevardmedia5.fotopic.net/show_group.php?id=4544.
Might help you think about whether your main modelling desire is:
a) Building a large and imposing cement plant (or a harbor dockside scene) and just shuffle cars from staging into the various plant tracks, or within the plant - ie a focus on building and detailing structures, and possibly focus on the industrial process itself (how concrete is produced or ships are loaded/unloaded), or
b) Running a local dropping off and picking up a couple of cars at each of a number of industries - ie focusing mainly on the train crew's job in planning the order of pulling and setting out cars, or
c) Having a layout that is mainly a yard, where the main goal is to sort inbound cars into blocks and then send them off outbound to various (mostly not modelled/off-layout destinations in staging) on various trains - ie focusing mainly on the yard work of sorting and routing cars), or
d) Having a layout where the trains mainly will be moving (perhaps slowly) through the landscape (which may be industrial/harbor like), and where a train occationally will have to take a siding to let another train past, or where a train occationally will stop to drop off or pick up some cars, but the main emphasis is to be able to lean back and admire the train rolling slowly by or through your scenes, while having gates go down and the train sounding its horn for RR crossings, or
e) something else entirely
Just wanted to throw a handful of ideas at you, to maybe get you thinking about what the main goal of your layout is. Only you will be able to figure out what your main goal with the layout is, but you should try to figure that out before you start drawing up track plans.
Your ball. Good luck!
Hello Gentlemen,
I to have questions to the broad knoledge of your vast experiences. I am wanting to build my first layout. I remember when I was a very young boy my father had a 4x8 plywood on legs in my room with our lionel set up on it. But, We never got to the point of making it a real layout. So, I guess to bring back those wonderful memories and kind of thinking back about my father. I have purchased N gauge trains. But I am having a hard time finding track plans for a 4x8 layout. Seems like everyone is into the the whole room or around the room layouts. So I need to direction to some good plan books where I can find more then just one or two layout plans for that size. Also I have seen now using fiberboard to build on over a plywood base. Is this the way to go? Or for a amature and I am not sure I would be able to build one of those realistic looking mountains out of plaster. So I come to you Gentlemen and any ladies out there how does the little boy in this older guy get started to be able to build something nice to play with my toys??? In dire need of a great never ending hobby and I was told you never end building your layout..lol.
Thanks,
Scott
Hi Scott,
back to the hobby.
We do have a little bit of an etiquette in this forum - we try to avoid jumping someone else´s thread...
As a beginner, you should take your time and read, read, read, ask the right questions and listen carefully to the answers.
Kalmbach Publishing, who is our host here, has a number of excellent beginner´s books in their "Basic..." book series. Take a look at this link:
http://www.kalmbachstore.com/modeltrains-railroading-model-railroading-books-basic-book-series.html
You can also search in the internet, using "track plan, Layout, N scale" as key words. You will find a wealth of information there.
I also recommend to read this book:
http://www.kalmbachstore.com/12205.html
Spectacular.
Stein,
The cement plant tucked in a corner like that is one of my ideas. I don't think the one were the cement plant took up 16' of shelving. My interest in the cement operations is because when I joined the club i'm and saw the long train of 2 bay cement hoppers and to a closer look at them for some reason they appealed to me. Also, there are two ready mix plants near my home and in one of MR's project RR's they had a small cement operation with quarry and sand pit. I like the Glacier Gravel company as well. And from the late 1800's until it was demolished in 1959 we had a small company town named Cowell which had a Portland Cement plant and a quarry near by. We still have an active quarry near the base of the mountain today.
I like the short cars, 40' and 34' style, 2 bay closed and open hoppers. Season would be Fall. Era mid 50's to mid 60's. Not sure about shipping operations (harbor, docks) unless I am thinking barges through local waterways like sloughs or rivers or canals.
I was thinking:
1 the cement plant in a corner on one shelf
2 the quarry in a corner on another shelf
3 a small ready mix plant in a town on another shelf
Your thoughts and links will assist me quite a bit in the direction I am heading.
Thank you.
Just to help this new user ...
jstolteddybear I have purchased N gauge trains. But I am having a hard time finding track plans for a 4x8 layout.
I have purchased N gauge trains. But I am having a hard time finding track plans for a 4x8 layout.
If you are looking for a small "starter" style layout for N scale, you needn't bother with a cumbersome 4X8. A hollow core interior door (30" wide or 36" wide) can provide a decent amount of room to try some things out in N scale and is much easier to handle and move. And the benchwork is mostly pre-built!
There are quite a few plans out there for N scale on a hollow core door, although unfortunately not all are good.
One fine example of a finished layout is Dave Vollmer's.http://www.thevollmerfamily.com/Pennsy/
I might suggest that you start a new thread asking for help with an N scale starter layout, you'll probably get lots of responses. But some of us will ask you to be more specific about what you like, don't like, and what you want to accomplish.
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