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STOP THE PRESSES! Best roadbed ever???

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STOP THE PRESSES! Best roadbed ever???
Posted by electrolove on Monday, May 18, 2009 8:13 AM
Here is my latest experiment. Three 16 mm plastic pipes and midwest cork glued with latex caulk on top. Very fast and easy to build. My ten foot pipes costed my 6 USD for all three. What do you guys think? I see a lot of advantages. Fast to build. Inexpensive. When built with a little care, very high quality. Easy to build curves and grades. No need to make masonite or wood splines. No need to cut plywood. You can use a wooden dowel (or smaller pipe) at the end of the pipe for a never ending pipe (roadbed). You can fasten a tortoise by cutting a piece of plywood and glue it under the pipes with latex caulk. Just screw it down and glue cork roadbed and you are done! Start with the center pipe, then screw one on each side. Question 1, the roadbed is done with plastic PVC pipe = a dead material. Will that prevent the track from moving at different temperatures in the layout room? For example summer and winter. Question 2, the pipes are screwed only at the bottom. Can I fasten the pipes to the riser without screws? The reason I ask is because the shape of the pipe can be deformed if you screw them down too hard. The result is a non even roadbed.
Rio Grande Zephyr 5771 from Denver, Colorado to Salt Lake City, Utah "Thru the Rockies"
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Posted by Phoebe Vet on Monday, May 18, 2009 10:42 AM

Interesting!

Dave

Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow

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Posted by grizlump9 on Monday, May 18, 2009 10:58 AM

 looks good from here but i would wait until the system had been in service for a while before blessing it.

as for screwing the pipes down from the top,  try drilling all the way through the pipe first and then enlarge the top hole just enough to get the screw head and screw driver blade through it.  then the screw will only be going through the bottom of the pipe.  the occasional small hole in the top should not be a problem,

how tight a curve can you make with this?  have you tried bending the pipe by heating it and forcing it down to 36" radius?

i still can't figure out the issue with temperature extremes.  my basement might get down to 60 degrees when the outside temperature is zero and about 75 degrees when the outside is 95.  that is not much of a change over the year

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Posted by Texas Zepher on Monday, May 18, 2009 11:47 AM

Interesting concept.  I would have called it sub-roadbed  Smile.  I'm a little skeptical that not having a total flat support under the cork isn't going to cause problems in the long run.   Maybe just a sheet of cardboard?   Using sheet styrene would probably void many of the cool benefits you outlined.

This could not be used with the AMI roadbed.  It would "flow" into the groves between the tubes.   Have you tried it with something like the woodland scenics foam roadbed?

Have you done any tests to determine the minimum radius possible?

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Posted by selector on Monday, May 18, 2009 11:57 AM

You can get grey water pipe of that dimension and use it in your home.  It cannot be PVC for toxicity reasons, but the grey pipe can bend quite well. probably down to 24" or so.

As for mounting it on the stringers or joists, or atop risers, I would use metal water pipe strapping draped over the three pipes with its two ends wood-screwed to the item on which they are resting.  Any roadbed above them would need a transverse channel scored into it at the point where it covers the strapping, but that can be done with a coarse file in seconds.

I would be very interested in seeing how this turns out, EL.  I can see tons of advantages.  For one, you would not have the problem of having to plane all the plies because the tubing would be uniform on a uniform support.

-Crandell

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Posted by maxman on Monday, May 18, 2009 12:39 PM

Phoebe Vet

Interesting!

Yes, interesting, but not entirely new.  There was an article in the May 1988 issue of MR by M. J. Randall called "Plastic Pipe Roadbed".  He used 1/2 inch ID CPVC pipe.  For single track he used two parallel sections of pipe.  In addition, he had pieces of 2 inch long 1/4 X 1-1/8 inch wood lathe glued to the top of the pipe (spanning the two pipes) spaced  about 1 inch apart to provide support for the roadbed.  The roadbed used was Homabed.  

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Posted by Sperandeo on Monday, May 18, 2009 1:18 PM

Those of you who saw the video report on our March Kalmbach Layout Progress may have noticed that Kent Johnson uses plastic pipe roadbed similar to that in the 1988 MR article on his three-rail O gauge Canadian Pacific layout.

So long,

Andy 

Andy Sperandeo MODEL RAILROADER Magazine

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Posted by electrolove on Tuesday, May 19, 2009 5:46 AM
I already have a hole on the top of the pipe and screw it down only at the bottom. But it can still loose a little of it's shape if screwed down too hard. That's why I'm seeking for a alternative way to fasten it to the riser. Regarding the radius. It can be bent to a 36" radius without heating anything. Just bend it and screw it down.
Rio Grande Zephyr 5771 from Denver, Colorado to Salt Lake City, Utah "Thru the Rockies"
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Posted by electrolove on Tuesday, May 19, 2009 5:49 AM
I know, I have that article. My version is one step further. No need anymore to cut all these wood lathe. I'm always trying to minimize the material and work involved.
Rio Grande Zephyr 5771 from Denver, Colorado to Salt Lake City, Utah "Thru the Rockies"
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Posted by electrolove on Tuesday, May 19, 2009 5:57 AM
I think benchwork made of (ripped) birch plywood and these pipes is very close to the ultimate construction method.
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Posted by bogp40 on Tuesday, May 19, 2009 5:02 PM

electrolove
I already have a hole on the top of the pipe and screw it down only at the bottom. But it can still loose a little of it's shape if screwed down too hard. That's why I'm seeking for a alternative way to fasten it to the riser. Regarding the radius. It can be bent to a 36" radius without heating anything. Just bend it and screw it down.

 

To eliminate any distortion of the pipe when screwing it down, use a #8 countersink. Do go easy as not to remove too much material from the upper sides within the pipe.

Quite a facinating experiment though.

Modeling B&O- Chessie  Bob K.  www.ssmrc.org

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Posted by Midnight Railroader on Tuesday, May 19, 2009 10:18 PM

 The PVC is, of course, subroadbed; the cork is roadbed.

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Posted by cv_acr on Wednesday, May 20, 2009 4:51 PM

grizlump9
i still can't figure out the issue with temperature extremes.  my basement might get down to 60 degrees when the outside temperature is zero and about 75 degrees when the outside is 95.  that is not much of a change over the year

A basement is a very stable environment, since it's basically underground and usually has a house on top that provides some form of climate control (heat during winter if not also air conditioning during summer). Not all layouts are built in basements though. Layouts in upper floor rooms, attics, garages or specially built sheds in the backyard could be subject to much wilder temperature and humidity swings.

Our club layout is in a quonset hut that is insulated, but definately not climate controlled. There is a wood-pellet stove and a few electric space heaters that we use to warm things up in the winter (but only when we're there about once a week. It can take over an hour to heat it up enough to work in) and in the summer there is no air conditioning beyond opening the front door. And this layout is in southern Ontario, where the weather outside can range from averages as low as -10F (before wind chill) in the winter to 95 on a warm summer day with 95% humidity. It's a pretty inhospitible environment as far as temperature and humidity extremes go.

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Posted by BerkshireSteam on Wednesday, May 20, 2009 5:13 PM

selector

You can get grey water pipe of that dimension and use it in your home.  It cannot be PVC for toxicity reasons, but the grey pipe can bend quite well. probably down to 24" or so.

Just where a dust mask and cut the PVC outdoors. Poly Vynal Cloride isn't toxic, it's the fumes it produces when burned that can kill ya. If it's done outdoors (in driveway or open garage), the mask I mentioned, and long as you don't stick your face right by any smoking areas of the pipe you should be ok. Once the PVC is cooled it no longer produces the fumes and is ok again. You really can't bash PVC pipe or be afraid of it, chances are your house is piped with it. It is a composite material therefore can not rust, and also there fore does not have to be bothered to have a finish on it like sealant paint. Kind of like vynal flooring. Glue it down, clean it once in a while. No need to worry about factoring in expansion slots, or making it a floating floor to deal with that. No worrying about resealing it every few years or paying someone to come in with a giant disc sander and refinish it after some years from loosing it's luster. Now don't get me wrong, I would gladly choose a real wood floor in a deep, rich cherry finish or natural mapple finish over the stupid composite-plastic vynal any day, but then again I would also take the $2000 corinthian leather reclining chair over the Laz-Y-Boy. Well, of course assuming my model RR is finished, which for many people it never is Mischief

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Posted by reklein on Wednesday, May 20, 2009 6:27 PM

How do you propose to attach scenic materials to this subroadbed??

In Lewiston Idaho,where they filmed Breakheart pass.
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Posted by IRONROOSTER on Wednesday, May 20, 2009 6:59 PM

The next step will be to build all of the benchwork out of PVC pipe.  You can glue the whole thing together.

Enjoy

Paul

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Posted by PLSWJR on Thursday, May 21, 2009 5:28 AM

For a smooth surface you could put caulking in the void between the pipes and with a small straight edge screed it off flat and attach the cork at the same time. This would also add a fair bit of structural integrity as well by "glueing" the pipes together

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Posted by nufee on Saturday, May 23, 2009 4:56 PM

Cut the pvc pipe with a hand rachet pvc pipe cutter.  You can get one of these where they sell underground lawn irrigation sprinkler supplies.

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Posted by taildisk on Tuesday, June 2, 2009 8:55 AM

 EL

 One of the replies asked about attaching scenary - why not use an extra pipe each side?  This would provide for a full ballast profile / drainage.

You also asked about fixing the pipe to risers - why not use your latex caulk!

Rob

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Posted by jwhitten on Tuesday, June 2, 2009 10:14 AM

Sperandeo

Those of you who saw the video report on our March Kalmbach Layout Progress may have noticed that Kent Johnson uses plastic pipe roadbed similar to that in the 1988 MR article on his three-rail O gauge Canadian Pacific layout.

So long,

Andy 

 

 

Any idea of how long its been in use and if there are any operational or structural issues?

 

Also it seems like it could conceivably be an interesting way to run wiring too.

Modeling the South Pennsylvania Railroad ("The Hilltop Route") in the late 50's
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Posted by WaxonWaxov on Tuesday, June 2, 2009 10:34 AM

MILW-RODR
...but then again I would also take the $2000 corinthian leather reclining chair over the Laz-Y-Boy.

LOL!  you're showing your age dude!Tongue

"Corinthian Leather" was a marketing tool invented by Chrysler in the 1970's in all those old commercials starring Ricardo Montalban. "Corinthian" actually meant nothing and all the Chrysler leather was made in New Jeresy..  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corinthian_leather

Cowboy

 

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