Sheet cork to ribbon roadbed cork question

[Capt. Grimek]

I'm starting to add ribbon roadbed cork roadbed to the flat sheet corked yard. It's going to be hard to have a #7.5 curved turn out on the start of a grade (right at zero elevation) look right with half of it on the flat cork and half on ribbon roadbed. I can't really do just ribbon cork into the yard and have that look right as the grade starts IN the yard.. . What do you guys do to make this transition look good? I'm concerned about having a cork joint in the middle of a curved turn out wreaking havoc too. OR a transition joint right where the vertical easement starts... Suggestions? Pics? and finally, do Midwest turn out pads ends protrude beyond the end of turn outs or do the rail joints fall directly over the end of the pads at the "cork joint"? I may pick up some tomorrow to speed up construction. Thanks!

[Wazzzy]

as long as the thickness of the 2 corks are the same and the whole section the TO will be on is level, there should be no issues with half the TO on sheet & ribbion. in the real world of trains, we have TOs through road crossings: 1/3 on ballast, 1/3 buried in the road and 1/3 back on ballast. just make the joints even and level, it will all be hidden under the ballast anyways.

 the TO should not be placed anywhere (especialy on top of) a grade starts or stops. place it to either end where the rails are flat/level. ther entire TO can be on the grade, but the grade transition point should be to either end of the TO. hope that makes sense to ya.

post a pic of the area in question.

[Capt. Grimek]

Thanks Wazzy. I'll look thing over with that in mind. I don't have a way to post a pic right now, but if I can't muck it out, I'll see about doing that in a couple of days.

[Capt. Grimek]

Wazzy, the end of the curved turn out is laying 3-3 1/2" up grade from the start of the cookie cut grade (where it's still attatched to the flat ply bench top. ) Think that'll be enough to prevent problems? Thanks. If I can't find a good artistic blend of the sheet cork to roadbed transition, I'll find a way to send you a pic for further ideas. Thanks again.

[mobilman44]

Hi,

My last HO layout (demo'd in January) lasted 14 years and I finally decided to redo it primarily because I made 4 "errors in judgement" in the construction.  One of those was having two turnouts on a grade transition (from flat surface to grade).  I am a pretty fair "layer of track", and yet had to redo these two areas twice over a number of years.  The end result worked, but I was not happy with it at all.

The new replacement layout is now under construction, and all turnouts will be mounted on a perfectly flat surface - be it horizontal or grade - and no transition will occur within a foot or so of the turnout.  Yes, I have had to make some adjustments to my original design, but it should be worth it.

By the way, the other 3 "errors in judgement" on the last layout were:  two turnouts totally inaccessable inside a tunnel, a reverse loop that took up much more space than it was worth, and having too dark of paint/wash on the rockworks (its easy to darken, almost impossible to lighten).

ENJOY,

Moiblman44  

[Capt. Grimek]

mobilman, thanks very much. It was my usual policy to try and keep joints well away from the turn outs. I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to keep this one more than 3-31/2" away. (My preference would be a passenger car length). Do you think that would work if the entire turn out is on a flat surface of the start of the grade (2.5%) or has your experience shown that would still be too close to the transition (vertical easement) to work? If I can't get it further away (not looking likely) I may have to change the track plan but hoping to avoid that. Perhaps I'll try a mock up... Thanks for your input. I appreciate it. EDIT: Hi, It looks like I could probably get it about 8 1/2" away from the start of the grade. Think that'll do it? I'd also like to know if the commercial turn out pads have any overhang past the turn out rail joints. I'll be heading for a hobby shop this afternoon with a turn out in hand. Thanks again.

[mobilman44]

Hi,

Yes, 8 inches or so would work, but I would also put in a "vertical easement" to get to the 2 1/2 percent grade.  In other words, I would not go from flat horizontal directly to 2 1/2 percent grade - but would rather ease into the grade. 

Like I wrote earlier, my last layout was with me for 14 years.  For a good portion of the time, I was unhappy with the layout due to the errors in judgement I made.  In building the new replacement layout, I am doing my best to not have similar problems a few years from now.  My point is, if there is something you come across during the layout construction that bothers or concerns you, do what it takes to get it right then - or I can almost guarantee it will bug you for the duration of the new layout.

Hey, for what its worth!

Mobilman44

[Capt. Grimek]

The cookie cutter(ed) attatched end is providing a "natural" vertical easement from what I've read. Thanks for the feedback on the 8.5"s. Yep, I'm trying to be neurotically analytical about all track laying ingredients so hopefully I'll only have to do this once! Thanks. Looking forward to see your progress as things...progress!

[R. T. POTEET]

Capt. Grimek

I'm starting to add ribbon roadbed cork roadbed to the flat sheet corked yard. It's going to be hard to have a #7.5 curved turn out on the start of a grade (right at zero elevation) look right with half of it on the flat cork and half on ribbon roadbed. I can't really do just ribbon cork into the yard and have that look right as the grade starts IN the yard.. . What do you guys do to make this transition look good? I'm concerned about having a cork joint in the middle of a curved turn out wreaking havoc too. OR a transition joint right where the vertical easement starts... Suggestions? Pics? and finally, do Midwest turn out pads ends protrude beyond the end of turn outs or do the rail joints fall directly over the end of the pads at the "cork joint"? I may pick up some tomorrow to speed up construction. Thanks!

Unless your locomotives are made out of rubber and prepared to bend in about three directions at once YOU ARE ASKING FOR TROUBLE!!!!!

If you do not install your switch either before you begin your grade transition or after you have completed it--not in the middle of it--I will guarantee you what they call in that great land of swine flu muchos derailmentos!!!!!

[Capt. Grimek]

Thanks Poteet, but, unfortunately, that can't be an option due to the size of the room and what needs to be done operationally with the layout. (except in the specific place I'm asking about, above). I'll have several other turn outs on grades and there isn't any way around that so my goal will be to do the best work with the best techniques I can on those turn outs. The consensus from members of several clubs here have been that turn outs on grades are fine if they're laid carefully. Have others found their curved turn outs on grades to be a complete "deal breaker" if they're laid carefully (rails lined up with smooth joints, turn outs gauged correctly, points filed, etc.? Other than those things any suggestions to have a "best shot" at this? If the curved t.o. is on a flat part of the grade a loco and tender's length minimum away from the vertical transition, what would be the problem(s)? Thanks.

[R. T. POTEET]

Capt. Grimek

Thanks Poteet, but, unfortunately, that can't be an option due to the size of the room and what needs to be done operationally with the layout. (except in the specific place I'm asking about, above). I'll have several other turn outs on grades and there isn't any way around that so my goal will be to do the best work with the best techniques I can on those turn outs. The consensus from members of several clubs here have been that turn outs on grades are fine if they're laid carefully. Have others found their curved turn outs on grades to be a complete "deal breaker" if they're laid carefully (rails lined up with smooth joints, turn outs gauged correctly, points filed, etc.? Other than those things any suggestions to have a "best shot" at this? If the curved t.o. is on a flat part of the grade a loco and tender's length minimum away from the vertical transition, what would be the problem(s)? Thanks.

Grimek, unless I completely misunderstood your original posting you are not proposing to put your #7.5 switch on either the level or the grade; what you indicated you want to do is put that switch half on one and half on the other!

I will repeat myself: YOU ARE ASKING FOR TROUBLE!!!!!

[gerhard_k]

Grimek - it seems quite clear to me that you said this turnout will be at least 8" away from any **change in grade**. There should be no problem if it is on a straight continuous grade, but that means that all three legs of it must be on that same (although possibly non-level) plane. Try to be really honest with the grade transitions occurring near the turnout, it will require about 2 feet along the track to change the grade by the 2.5% that you mentioned.

Good luck -- Gerhard

[Capt. Grimek]

gearhard yes that's correct. Thanks very much for the encouraging input. Poteet, sorry if it wasn't clear to you, but yes, the curved turnouts will be on the "flat/angled" portion of the grades 8-81/2" minimum from the start (0 elevation) of the cookie cut grade. The other two will be "miles" from the start of the grades and at a lesser angle than the 7.5 T.0. will be. I can see why you were adamant, thinking I meant that the t.o. would SPAN the flat/angled area! So, would you agree then, that 8" or so up the grade if I gauge and lay it carefully should be fine? Thanks. By the way, how's your book writing coming along? I'm trying my hand at writing too.