Here it is.
#4 turnouts
18" minimum turns.
Mandatory engine change at Rocklin
Helper service up to the summit at Colfax
Behind the freight house in Colfax is the Nevada County Narrow Gauge line. It connects at the tunnel and the track runs 3-rail across the bridge.
Layouts of Rocklin and Colfax are "vaguely similar" to how it was in the general era.
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
SpaceMouseBehind the freight house in Colfax is the Nevada County Narrow Gauge line. It connects at the tunnel and the track runs 3-rail across the bridge.
1) I don't get this one - only tunnel I see in Colfax is above freight house on plan. Where is the narrow gauge "behind the freight house in Colfax" that connects at the tunnel ?
2) The two tracks to the mining camp in Colfax at about position position 8' / 16' - a little far from the layout edge if you plan to couple/uncouple cars here, isn't it ?
Stein
OK. Make it so!
Mark
steinjr SpaceMouse Behind the freight house in Colfax is the Nevada County Narrow Gauge line. It connects at the tunnel and the track runs 3-rail across the bridge. 1) I don't get this one - only tunnel I see in Colfax is above freight house on plan. Where is the narrow gauge "behind the freight house in Colfax" that connects at the tunnel ?
SpaceMouse Behind the freight house in Colfax is the Nevada County Narrow Gauge line. It connects at the tunnel and the track runs 3-rail across the bridge.
The dark line you see there is actually the narrow gauge line. You have to blow up the picture quite a bit to actually see it.
2) The two tracks to the mining camp in Colfax at about position position 8' / 16' - a little far from the layout edge if you plan to couple/uncouple cars here, isn't it ? Stein
Dang, I fixed that when it was a cattle pen. I guess I just like that open space too much. Okay, I'll bend it around a bit. Good call.
markpierce OK. Make it so! Mark
I haven't completely given up on the NCNG. I think I could get a reasonable Grass Valley on the left and a Nevada City on the right. I need to work on an operational plan and figure some continuous running for the kid. The problem is that it doesn't fit the structures I have. Some of them were pricey. The fraudolance rendition above uses what I have.
All the crossovers and crossings at Rocklin looks overly complicated. If you stop a train anywhere in Rocklin you pretty much block all the crossovers and crossings. Do you really need the "long" crossover in the middle and the direct connection from the main the turntable in the middle of the siding? Both of them will only useful if a very short train (4 cars, no engine) is on the main or either siding. Any train longer than 4or 5 cars, an engine and a caboose will foul the ends of the sidings, or the crossovers or both.
At Colfax, most of the transfer shed is next to the mainline switches. If you spot cars there for the hours it will take to manually unload and transfer freight from the narrow to standard cars (and it will take hours because they will have to carry every bag, box and barrel out of the car one by one, by hand) you will block the end of the siding and not be able to pass trains. Would you consider flipping the directions of the tracks leading to the yellow/orange building and then run the NG next to one of those tracks., essentiall moving building 7 to an area jus to the right of the X in Colfax?
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Same issues as before, same comments as before.
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
- Gerhard
Dave,
Good calls. Working on them. I may not be able to solve them all completely, but you be the judge.
Byron,
I'm not sure I know which comments rather than the comments about finding a branch line and having too short of staging. Of the two, I was able to increase the staging by about 15 inches on all tracks in Sacramento and by about 9 inches in Reno. I still have one track around 30" and considered removing it. but there is one local that was just a loco and a single passenger car, so I decided to keep it.
The main problem here is that I have the benchwork completed, and storage built under it. I may have passed going with a whole new concept. The reason I even consider the change is that my autistic son now thinks it's okay to change the name of the layout. My wife is clamoring for the storage I've promised and I have to keep moving ahead.
So unless I find something really quickly that fits easily, I may be stuck with this fraudolance layout.
Gerald,
Yep. My term.
OK, I'll be clearer. For a small space, you've picked two locations on the transcontinental railroad main line nearly 30 miles apart and placed them two train lengths apart. You are planning to change engines in one town, run for twenty seconds to the next town and add a helper, then run 5 seconds to staging. Most people would not find this satisfying. If you think you will, great.
If you don't think that will be satisfying, there's no need I can see to be locked into these two towns or the concept. A more practical concept such as a branchline or shortline might offer a more reasonable amount of traffic and would not require so much suspension of disbelief. The NCNG is one idea, and you wouldn't even be the first to standard gauge it as a model. (Dick Roberts had a fine Nevada County not Narrow Gauge layout in Model Railroad Planning 2001).
It seems to me that the time to try to accommodate an ambitious concept like this is before building benchwork and buying structures, not after. Since you can't change the past and you are where you are, clinging to these two locations seems, to me, to be limiting your future enjoyment of the layout. But if you don't think so, carry on.
Basically I continue to find that folks posting on this forum aren't really interested in ideas so much as agreement and hollow kudos.
cuyama It seems to me that the time to try to accommodate an ambitious concept like this is before building benchwork and buying structures, not after. Since you can't change the past and you are where you are, clinging to these two locations seems, to me, to be limiting your future enjoyment of the layout. But if you don't think so, carry on.
Based on the limitations of space, a layout is what it is. If he has the room to operate six trains, then he is going to operate six trains. No whether he sez its a branch or the 4 track Main Line of the PRR, he is going to operate six trains. it doesn't matter what the concept is its going to amount to six trains (or whatever the cap is.)
It would be way better if the trackplan was flipped so that the curly que was between the two towns instead of between the staging and the two towns to maximize the runs, but he has a pretty well fixed footprint, has pretty well painted himself in a corner with his benchwork and he is way past those suggestions (having been made previously).
So it is what it is. What can get tweaked is open to tweaking.
Basically I continue to find that folks posting on this forum aren't really interested in ideas so much as agreement and hollow kudos
Yes there can be a lot of ego boosting on a lot of this forum and several others I frequent. I just chalk it up to trying to encourage beginners, so pretty much anything that is posted gets the "Family Feud", "Good answer, good answer." treatment no matter how rough the product or idea is. Part of that "everybody's a winner" generation thing. I can only answer those "can I put my Big Boy around a 15" radius curve" questions about once a month or I get nauceous. I too think the rah-rahing is a load of malarkey and do my best to politely provide constructive criticism, pointing out both deficiencies and possible solutions, but I have learned only to comment on threads that solicit feedback. Evidently people don't like honesty unless they have time to brace themselves.
Byron, Dave,
No matter what it looks like, I value your opinion as much if not more than anyone on this board. If it appears that I am ignoring what you are saying, it is probably that I don't know what to do with advice you are giving me.
Second, I'd like to give some background. I got into this hobby to find something I could do with my autistic son. At the time, my primary hobby was Cowboy Action Shooting and I was ranked 3rd in Pennsylvania in my class. But the idea of my son shooting ,45 cal long colts was not realistic. He seemed to take an interest in model trains after receiving a Hogwarts Train set for Christmas and I changed hobbies.
If you've been around autistic kids at all you will know that once they get an idea in their head it is difficult to change it. For 3 years I've been after my son to allow me to change the name of my layout. He named the original town of Train City and as late as a month ago, he would not relent. So I set about building the layout of Rock Ridge and Train City.
After a series of conversations with Dave Clemens, he convinced me to give it one last shot at a name change. To my surprise, my son agreed. At that point I started looking at towns along the Overland Route to that I could rename my towns. To my surprise Rocklin and Colfax fit the bill pretty well.
The problem was as Byron pointed out. Having operations of engine change and helper service in my confines would be dull. However, the original plan of the Rock Ridge and Train City allowed for 11 trains of 13 cars as shown by Dr. Roy Dohn's Formula (which I take with a grain of salt.) Which is why I came up with this bastardization of reality, a mix between the operation of the RR&TC and the reality of Rocklin and Colfax. All the industries of the former are found in the latter with the addition of the large freight/produce industry in Colfax added. I should have plenty to do in this layout.
I should also mention that this is Phase 1 of a 3 Phase layout and that Reno staging and therefore the length of helper services will be moved back 20 ft in phase 2. In phase 2, I will be adding lumber operations in Towle. In Phase 3, I will be adding the Truckee Yard and moving Reno staging back another 25 feet. I may not run any helper service until Phase two track is laid.
I haven't completely given up on a Branch line. The NCNG might work, but there are some concerns. The towns of Grass Valley and Nevada City can actually fit reasonably well in the space I have. But since the line terminates in Nevada City, I only have need of staging on one side: Colfax. The number of industries drop substantially and I see no clear path for expansion into the other areas as they become available.
It's a matter of as I build one layout, it becomes storage for the areas into which it will expand.
Anyway, look for a NCNG plan in the next few days.
In the meantime, I'm not sure I completely solved the problems Dave mentioned, but here's what I have so far. I'm very open to further suggestions. The mainline is the center track in each town. The set-up in Colfax is similar to the real Colfax, except that they had the luxury of about 3 times as many tracks. In Rocklin, there were 4 tracks passing in front of the roundhouse and I have 3. The remaining crossing in Rocklin is to get local freight from the yard to the industries without switchbacks. It also forms a useful runaround. I never expected it to be used while other yard work was being performed.
Wild idea.
At Rocklin, swap ends for the town by putting a diamond at the end of the bridge. A train leaves Sacramento, comes around the wye and instead of going around the S curve goes straight into Rocklin. Does its thing at Rocklin, then leaves and goes around the big curves and crosses the Sacramento line at grade and then right out onto the big bridge. By making that change you now have 15 ft between Colfax and Rocklin instead of 6 ft. It should require no changes to the benchwork or anything else.
AT Colfax take the switch to #6, make it a left hand switch and put it right in front of #7.Point the tracks at the post at the bottom of the layout between 9 &10 ft.Put #6 along the left hand track and move #7 to the right track. Then bring the narrow gauge to the right of #7.
Move the passenger station at Colfax to where #7 is.
Chip,
Check out Don Ball's layout. http://www.sandcrr.com/
Some of the ideas might help. He's about a decade earlier than you want, but the principles are pretty much the same.
EDIT: Spoke too soon. Forgot about how his new layout is so much bigger than the earlier Moraga Springs Northern.
If you can, get hold of a copy of MRP, 1995. The MSN appeared in that.
Or was it GMR for the same year? I
Andre
dehusman Wild idea. At Rocklin, swap ends for the town by putting a diamond at the end of the bridge. A train leaves Sacramento, comes around the wye and instead of going around the S curve goes straight into Rocklin. Does its thing at Rocklin, then leaves and goes around the big curves and crosses the Sacramento line at grade and then right out onto the big bridge. By making that change you now have 15 ft between Colfax and Rocklin instead of 6 ft. It should require no changes to the benchwork or anything else. AT Colfax take the switch to #6, make it a left hand switch and put it right in front of #7.Point the tracks at the post at the bottom of the layout between 9 &10 ft.Put #6 along the left hand track and move #7 to the right track. Then bring the narrow gauge to the right of #7. Move the passenger station at Colfax to where #7 is.
More great ideas. The change of the bridge moves the waterfall in front of the bridge whereas I had it just behind the bridge. If I chance the framing, I can put it back behind the bridge, so there is a slight framing change, but no biggy. I was also looking to find a way to extend the ridge along the river to create a visual divide between Rocklin and the river. So thanks for that.
Reversing the sidings at Colfax doesn't work because Tater Mountain is wrapped around that pole.
But I think I got the gist of it and was able to pull it off going the other way. Any other problems you can see?
Andre,
That's a nice looking layout.
Almost makes me want to go back to 1891. I like the idea of a little more powerful engines though.
Chip--
Well, I see it and I don't see it, if you get what I mean. I see Colfax clearly, and it makes sense. But I don't see Rocklin unless you 'off-screen' it to where you've got Sacramento staging. You've got a big bridge between Colfax and Rocklin (and there AIN'T none, buddy, Judah's original 'ridge route' avoided big bridges except for a trestle at Newcastle, which was filled in by the time you're modeling). Okay, I'm being really picky, and for that I apologize.
The bridge I see on your layout would be 1: the Long Ravine bridge out of Colfax leading upgrade to Cape Horn, or 2: the Nevada County Narrow Gauge Bear River viaduct. Which to my way of thinking, would make Rocklin into Grass Valley (or Peardale or Chicago Park) if you decided to make that portion of your layout the Nevada County Railroad (forget 'narrow gauge'--other modelers of that particular railroad have), or decided to turn Rocklin into, say, Emigrant Gap or Norden, farther up the main SP line.
In other words, Rocklin is on the wrong geographical side of the layout, from what I see. You've got it east of Colfax, not west, where it should be. Colfax is about 2700' elevation, Rocklin is about 150'. My advice is to turn Rocklin into your staging area, and run upgrade to Colfax, then either use what you've designated as "Rocklin" as either Grass Valley on the NCRR, or Emigrant Gap or Norden on the SP.
Okay, and with that said, I LIKE the layout! I just think you need to get your geography straight. At least from what I'm looking at.
I hope I don't sound like a 'downer,' Chip--I've always liked what you do.
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
twhite In other words, Rocklin is on the wrong geographical side of the layout, from what I see. You've got it east of Colfax, not west, where it should be. Colfax is about 2700' elevation, Rocklin is about 150'. My advice is to turn Rocklin into your staging area, and run upgrade to Colfax, then either use what you've designated as "Rocklin" as either Grass Valley on the NCRR, or Emigrant Gap or Norden on the SP. Tom
If I build it this way in my basement. Rocklin will be West by Southwest of Colfax. But I know there are "issues," which is why I'm calling this layout a fraudotype. The good thing is most of the people around here that might operate on this layout are not on these forums and know mostly the PRR and B&O.
Stay tuned for a rendition of the NCNG.